Never fired a weapon??? Don't worry, you can still carry a concealed weapon in 33 states!!!!!

[KansasVoter]

(Here is some information for our new GUN forum members about the UTAH license)

Want to PACK HEAT but do not want to go through the hassle and boredom of learning to fire a gun? Want to conceal a 44 mag as you roam the streets of america but do not really want to have to fire a weapon first? Want to carry that concealed Glock or .44 magnum, with extended clips, that you have never fired, in 33 states??? Of course you do!!!

But I am sure you are wondering "How can this be possible? How can I carry a concealed weapon when I have never even held a gun??? Isn't that dangerous?" Well of course it is dangerous, and stupid, but also EXCITING!!!

Well, let me introduce you to Utah's Non-residence Concealed Weapon Permit!!!

All you need to do is find an instructor in your state that teaches the Utah class. Don't worry, there are 700 instructors living outside of Utah that are licensed to teach the Utah class!!! Here is the list:

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/insoutstate02092011.pdf

Pay your $100, take a 4 hour class, and no gun range time is required, and then file the paper work the instructor gives you with the state of Utah and BANG.....you are now licensed to carry a concealed weapon in 33 states (listed at the end of this post)!

Then buy your gun, conceal it, and roam all 33 states waiting for your chance to FIRE YOUR WEAPON for the FIRST TIME.

Imagine the excitement of walking into a quik-trip and seeing it it getting robbed!!! Imagine pulling out the Glock and opening fire at the bad guy. Imagine the feeling of firing your weapon, for the first time, at an actual human being!!! Watch the bystanders scatter as you empty your 32 bullet extended clip wildly at the robber!!! There is NOTHING like firing your weapon for the first time, but you are firing at a robbery suspect who is running from you in a populated store. Nothing can prepare you for the excitement!!!

Do you understand what I am saying here? The FIRST time you fire a weapon, you can legally be firing it at a human being in a public place. Is this a great country or what??? Is it smart to do this? Of course not, but why does that matter? It is 100% legal?

But you are saying "I had to prove I could drive a car before I got my drivers license, this makes no sense!". Of course it makes no sense, but we are talking about GUNS in America, so normal logic rules do not apply!

So, join the 73,000 other people with non-residence permits from Utah!!!

Here is a new York Times article about the Utah License!!! http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/us/06guns.html

And here is the list of states (that honor the Utah non-residence permit) that you can pretend to be Dirty Harry in!!! Except Dirty Harry actually KNEW HOW TO FIRE A WEAPON!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!

Alabama
Alaska
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Mississippi
New Hampshire
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
South Dakota
Texas
Virginia
Washington State
West Virginia
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa
Kentucky
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Tennessee
Vermont
Wyoming

[RSillsbee]

1. Hate to break your heart peaches

but the Colorado permit doen't require shooting either, So either way I didn't have to shoot to get mmy permit anyway

[KansasVoter]

4. Valid in 33 states?

[RSillsbee]

14. IDK

It's valid every where I go. That's all I care about.

[Ken_Fish]

2. OMG think of the children and the blood in the streets, that those kids will track

on your carpet. We must act now to prevent the mass deaths that will...

oh wait ccw stats over ten years show criminality rates lower than police...

So what basis are you using to push for a change? Feelings?

[KansasVoter]

3. And intelligent Gun owner would be outraged by the Utah requirements....

if your not then you are so biased that you are beyond discussing anything with.

[Ken_Fish]

6. My god , look at vermont. They are just drowining in rivers of blood..

oh wait they have had this requirement (or lack of) for ever and the sun still rises every day.

Seriously the anti crowd can play to emotion, but at the end of the day the public is done with this issue.

[KansasVoter]

8. You honestly think a CCW class should not require firing a weapon? YES/NO?

[Ken_Fish]

11. Nope. Up to the owner to assess their skills. A former MP or Police Officer

and a person who has never fired a weapon both have different requirements.

Problem is when you start dictating the requirements they become a barrier.

Required and Should are very different words and are important in this context.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken_Fish]

19. Because that is how the law is written. However your DL

is 50 state reciprocal as should my ccw be (and a marriage license should be as well).

Its a law, they change. You think some test taken 20 years ago is relevant to how I drive now?

You guys will be seeing lots of these you don't like. Hopefully more from Democrats just like the CCW law introduced.

[KansasVoter]

23. So you think no drivers test should be allowed either?

[Ken_Fish]

26. Up to the owner. I drove vehicles LONG before I had a DL

on private property, so the test was not relevant to me. To some it is.

Like I said, its a law, if they change it and problems arise change it back.

So far CCW holders have shown in massive samples to be law abiding people. So I'm not all that concerned by a law like this.

[speltwon]

59. Silly analogy

Driver's licenses regard a privilege. CCW's regard a constitutional right.

Last I checked, we didn't require a test to vote either.

[rl6214]

66. My 16 yo son just got his license

without having to take any test.

Try again

[KansasVoter]

75. Then he took a certified drivers ed course. Correct? What state?

[rl6214]

80. Yes he did

Took the class online, did his training hours with us on the road (my wife and I) went to the DMV (Texas)took his picture and he had his license. You no longer have to take a test at the DMV or take a driving test but that all is changing (or changed) at the first of this year.

[pipoman]

98. Funny, Kansas doesn't require a person to drive to get a license..

[Taitertots]

38. Because the figures prove that driving is significantly more dangerous n/t

[RSillsbee]

18. I don't even think CCW should require a permit

In Colorado I can (and do) legally openly carry a firearm almost anywhere in the state. If I want to conceal it I need a permit doesn't that strike you as just a little bit stupid?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RSillsbee]

29. Thanks for the personal attack

Care to answer the question? Perhaps you can explain why mt handgun is any less safe because I'm wearing a jacket

[one-eyed fat man]

22. You're just jealous

and too cheap to get one in Kansas. You won't even take the class for free! Other folks have offered to pay your way and you turned it down.

[KansasVoter]

25. Why would i take money from anyone posting on these forums? Seriously.....

why would I want the gunners here to pay for my class?
I don't like this place. Don't want your money.

[one-eyed fat man]

50. Curious

You say, "I don't like this place," but you spend a lot of time here casting aspersions like they were spinner baits. You post ignorant statements like how you are going to commit mail fraud and get miffed when you get called on it.

You just post to spread and stir up shit, we all know it. And odds are you do to, but have fun. Between you and jpak, it's hard to tell you apart. Your arguments are so well thought out and profound. Are you on the left or the right?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9Sqb6Vhazxg/TUpOtI8Y8-I/AAAAAAAATnI/EOSN_fUy8v4/s1600/Beavis+and+Butt-head.jpg

[KansasVoter]

55. This is the least progressive forum on the DU. Mail fraud my ass.....

half the shit I say here is because it gets you paranoid gunners worked up.

I guarantee that I am as left than any gunner on this forum.

Most of you people never post any progressive topics on any other forum. You just hang out here and point out how paranoid you are.

Or read GD and GDP just to see if anyone attacks guns and then post.

I doubt 30% of the members of this forum knocked on doors or donated money to any candidate.

Send me a PM so I can really tell you what I really think of you. If I post it here your people whine quicker than any forum in the DU.

[one-eyed fat man]

71. Nice of you to admit

what everyone else already knew.

...half the shit I say here is because it gets you paranoid gunners worked up.

[KansasVoter]

72. I't funny. And the PMs I get are classic, keep forever stuff. You are one of my favorites!

[one-eyed fat man]

92. In your own words

"I will make sure to call and request "lost in the mail" magazine copies enough times to make sure they don't turn a profit on my $15."

"Hmmm...how could I cost them $12? I will work on that."

"I just had them Fedex me some documentation for $20."

"I love my NRA membership. And the money I am costing them! :-)"

"I guarantee they have not made money on my $15. I am sure I am more educated and successful than you."

"They have spent $42 so far sending me stuff through FedEx that I have asked for."

"I would never commit mail fraud. And it would be unfair to the NRA!!!"

"They also fedexed me some hard copy research for $28 so I have cost them at least $13!"

"I have already cost them more than the $15 sent them!

Mail fraud, your ass??

Shall we go back to Thu Aug-05-10 09:17 PM and "Delayed until spring!" I am taking a CCW class in September claim next?

You know you can only make statements which are mutually exclusive at your peril. It doesn't matter which one is true because the other must be a lie.

[KansasVoter]

109. The fact that you spent all that time getting my posts amuses me and makes me laugh!

And those statements are true. I never lied tot he NRA once. Never.
And it is not spring yet in Kansas City. Maybe it is where you live.

[RSillsbee]

99. half the shit I say here is because it gets you paranoid gunners worked up.

SO , you admit to being a troll. Thanks

[rl6214]

67. "I don't like this place"

yet you keep coming back. Why? Your side is losing, give it up. Leave.

[KansasVoter]

73. I don't like the members of this forum. I LOVE posting here!

[rl6214]

81. But why have a dislike of the members of this forum

What have any of them done to deserve your dislike. I disagree with those that want to limit my ability to own or carry my firearms but I don't dislike any of them/you.

[Taitertots]

28. Outraged by what, the total lack of negative results? n/t

[Hangingon]

32. The intelligent gun owner would go to a range and learn to

fire their weapon. That is not hard to do, there are plenty of good ranges. In fact, you don't have to own a gun. Many ranges rent pistols for range use. This allows a new shooter to try different types of pistols and find one they are comfortable with. Even if you have a chl (whether it involves range or not), the intelligent gun owner will go to the range and practice.

[Ken_Fish]

39. Correct. Many ranges offer basic NRA courses for free or a very low price

even master class shooters still cross train with others to keep sharp.

[friendly_iconoclast]

106. And many are indoors. I'm sure there are some in Kansas

However, actually going to one of the Jayhawk State's indoor ranges might be problematic for those who regard

willful ignorance as a virtue....

[AtheistCrusader]

51. someone is certainly biased beyond discussing anything with.

Our concealed carry permit requirements have been 70 bucks and that's it, for almost 35 years. Not been a problem, despite your hysteria.

Pay your money, provide your fingerprints, wait 2 weeks and done.
Not an issue.

[speltwon]

60. Evidence doesn't matter to the anti's

They have "it stands to reason" arguments, and those trump real world results

[speltwon]

58. WA state has no shooting or competency requirement

please provide EVIDENCE that CCW'ers in WA are a hazard. They have a lower crime rate than the general pop (just like elsewhere) and they commit fewer violent crimes, specifically...

[Katya Mullethov]

5. Sounds like you're set then

Except for Kansas of course . They are waiting for the glacier to recede .

[KansasVoter]

7. Oh, I might get the Utah license first. The stupidity of it is intriguing.

[Katya Mullethov]

40. And monkeys

might fly outta my butt too .

[KansasVoter]

56. Showering more might help.

[Katya Mullethov]

103. How could I , washing MY OWN ass

Have any bearing on your propensity for spattering observers with false braggadocio ....and thus affect the possibility of a winged fez bearing monkey eruption ? Nada . Please to keep running mouth .

[oneshooter]

70. There is a change in the Utah law.

In order to get a Utah non-resident CHL you must have a CHL from your state.

Seems like you blew it again.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[KansasVoter]

74. Wow, why no whining about your rights being taken away?

[oneshooter]

78. I have had a Texas CHL for 15 years, good for 32 states.......

Including Kansas.

[jpak]

9. I'm glad they can't carry them in Maine -- flatlanders cause enough trouble around here

yup

[Ken_Fish]

12. Don't worry, federal preemption is in the works. (nt)

[one-eyed fat man]

30. Maine and Indiana issue CCW

to eighteen year olds. Are you swimming in blood up there yet from shootings by under 21 CCW permit holders? Why don't hold your breath until you are?

[jpak]

45. We swim in blood when 19 YOs point shotguns at each other for fun then find out that they're loaded

Maine teen faces manslaughter in shooting of friend

http://www.necn.com/02/25/11/Maine-teen-faces-manslaughter-in-shootin/landing_newengland.html?blockID=428042&feedID=4206

This is a photo of 19-year-old Luke Bryant from his Myspace page. In the first paragraph of his profile he says it should be obvious...he likes guns. In one photo he even shows off some of his collection.

Police say that fascination with firearms turned deadly last weekend when Bryant accidentally shot one of his good friends, 19-year-old
Tyler Seaney...as he walked out of the bathroom in Bryant's apartment.

According to court documents, Luke Bryant told police he wanted to scare his friend by pulling the trigger on an empty gun...but he forgot to check, and the shotgun was loaded.

Tyler Seaney was shot in the neck and died at the scene. Seaney's girlfriend...who was also in the apartment told police the two friends liked to play a game where they would point guns and try to scare one another.

<more>

Putting concealed hanguns in the hands of teenagers is just plain fucking stupid

yup

[one-eyed fat man]

47. You got a lot of native dumbass up there?

Proves once again you can't outsmart(or legislate away) stupid.

[AtheistCrusader]

52. too bad for you no one is arguing for teenage concealed carry.

21 and over, try again.

[Ken_Fish]

61. These people are morons. Unless you want to kill them all

they are annoying.

[lawodevolution]

10. And? What crisis are you trying to fake with this thread?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken_Fish]

15. maybe they should all have to go to BUDS or Ranger School

or law school too. Stupid gun lovers, nice.. Stay classy.

[KansasVoter]

17. I said "stupid" ones. If that offended you then that says a lot.

[Ken_Fish]

24. No I think its a joke. Numbers and stats back my position, antis have drama.

i mean peoples feelings are so important to an issue.. Lets use that to make law.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KansasVoter]

54. no crisis, just dumb.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hangingon]

36. I don't know about Ken_Fish but I am not offended

just amused that you continue to push hysteria on CHL/CCW when you apparently have 0 personal experience with the course. Stay under cover so the sky doen't fall on you.

[May Hamm]

48. Well now, you've dug a hole and buried yourself

When the personal attacks start the thread is done for.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

68. +1

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtheistCrusader]

53. Most states don't even require a class.

Still not a problem, despite your hysteria.

[villager]

33. Next: Why bother driving a car before getting a license!? It's -- UnAmerican!

n/t

[Ken_Fish]

35. Cars, trucks, tractors, front end loaders, all operated

by me long before a DL. Should be up to the owner to decide.

[villager]

41. "should be up to the owner to decide." Do me a favor and don't come driving here in L.A. okay?

n/t

[Ken_Fish]

42. Yep. I'm sure everyone in LA has a valid US DL

no thanks, sure its a nice place. I'll stay here. No data to present on this topic, more feelings.. ok.

[villager]

44. You're right -- we should eliminate all driver training! What a *convincing* argument!

n/t

[Ken_Fish]

62. Its a law, I'm sorry you dont like it. You are free to contest it in court

if you have been harmed by it.

[villager]

64. So... you really don't have any good arguments for it, do you?

I mean, it's a rhetorical question.

Glad you unquestioningly accept every GOP-passed law, however! :thumbsup:

[Ken_Fish]

69. I made them upthread with Vermonts blood bath.

There is the massive multimillion person 10 year study of ccw holders showing they offend less than police.

There is tons of data supporting my position. Not one single feeling or emotion to be played.

There is right and wrong, some dems (a growing number) are quite pro RKBA. My representative just introduced a nationwide CCW bill..

Let me know if you need help finding these numbers.

[villager]

114. and as a bonus, you dutifully support zero competence and training as a condition for carrying!

Making crystal clear that "responsible" ownership is a far back-burner aspect in this particular form of fetish-worship!

[KansasVoter]

57. On public highways?? Really? How old are you?

[Ken_Fish]

63. Nope. I took the test. When I showed up at Drivers Ed

had actually driven a car before. That made it easier.

Never said I operated those on public roads.

[Hoopla Phil]

37. It's "spring". When are you taking that conceal carry class?

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[east texas lib]

46. The sky has indeed fallen...

yup

[PavePusher]

49. Chicken Little, much? Stop hyperventilating, you'll feel better.

Fear-mongering. I guess it's a tactic all sides can use.

[rl6214]

65. Yours is about the tenth post on this subject.

BOOOORING.

To be a little more credible, try making your point without being snarky, you won't sound like such an ass.

[KansasVoter]

76. LOL....and it was many comments. So must be boring. Do you even try to be helpful?

[rl6214]

82. See post 92

not the only one. Yes I try to be helpful but when the name calling begins you have lost already.

[KansasVoter]

83. The people here really make me laugh. It is like an obsession!

[Upton]

84. Then why are you here?

It would appear you have your own obsession...and it involves working to deprive your fellow citizens and Democrats of their Constitutional rights.

[KansasVoter]

85. 2nd amendment bullshit again. Ask the next NRA sticker driver to repeat it.....

they have no fucking clue. They want guns, they don't give a crap about anything else.

[Upton]

88. Sure... the Bill of Rights must be "bullshit"

I mean, how could it be anything else? After all, the 2nd Amendment is a big fly in the ointment of your authoritarian prohibitionist agenda.

[KansasVoter]

89. BS, how many here belong to the ACLU? I bet < 10%. What percentage belong to NRA?

[X_Digger]

93. I belong to both.. ACLU for 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and NRA for 2nd.

If the ACLU got off their asses and supported the second as vigorously as they do the rest, the NRA would go back to being about gun safety and hunter education.

[one-eyed fat man]

96. You belong to the NRA

I signed up on the cheapest plans they had. $15 for a junior membership. Used my daughters information

You even went so far as to deceptively use your daughter's identity to scam yourself a junior membership.

Still mail fraud, your ass, huh?

It's a petty, insignificant crime. How perfectly apropos!

[KansasVoter]

100. She agreed. How is it mail fraud? The NRA knows because I told them when ....

they mailed me other stuff. Nice people in the NRA office.

[one-eyed fat man]

105. Petty deceit is still deceit.

Just because you used your daughter as a willing accomplice to get the cheapest membership as a ploy to get the NRA to waste time and money on your insignificant fraud doesn't make it any less an artifice.

After all, you said as much! In your own words, publicly posted, you make plain your intent to go so far as to falsely claim missing magazines to ensure you cost the NRA more than "your" (daughter's) dues.

Or do you now claim you never said these words?

"I will make sure to call and request "lost in the mail" magazine copies enough times to make sure they don't turn a profit on my (sic) $15."

Your $15? Her membership? Yeah, right. You are fooling no one but yourself! Amazing how hatefulness can allow you to rationalize lying and cheating as long as it is directed against those you hate.

[KansasVoter]

108. Yes, they have gladly spent over $100 sending me statistics about guns!

And they actually offered to send them. Nice bunch of people.
I spend $15, they spend $150. It has helped my research.
I don't hate you people, but feel sorry for you. There is a difference.

[one-eyed fat man]

111. You really don't get it!

"Character is much easier kept than recovered." ~Thomas Paine

Your daughter is not using her membership, you are. You are reputedly an adult, so to use the subterfuge of her name so you can take advantage of a discounted membership at a child's rate is no different than lying to get a senior citizen discount. It doesn't matter how you rationalize it, it is underhanded.

Is it a big deal? Monetarily, no. The NRA will never notice the money they waste on you. It does have a lot to say about you. Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking.

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters." ~Alan Simpson

[X_Digger]

77. *yawn* This again? n/t

[KansasVoter]

87. It's my buddy! Wondered where you were. I assume planning for the possible home invasion!

[X_Digger]

90. Scheduled that class yet? Spring approaches..

Keep trying to spread some more of this..

[KansasVoter]

91. Wow, internet image. A major step up for you. Network engineer! lol

[X_Digger]

94. You can do better than that! Lift with your knees! n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

79. Utah has nothing to do with a range-rookie carrying a gun in Ohio.

In ohio, you can carry a gun around with no permit whatsoever.
Forget about the Utah permit... you don't even need that.
Buy/borrow the gun, strap it to your hip, and walk out the door.

There has never been a significant problem with this policy.
I see no reason to start worrying now. :shrug:

[KansasVoter]

86. 33 states, never shot a gun. Only the people here think that is OK.

[X_Digger]

95. Apparently the people in 33 states don't have a problem with it..

.. where does that put you?!?

Oh yah, in the minority.

[KansasVoter]

101. The NRA is a powerful group! And most people are stupid!

[X_Digger]

102. Feel free to educate them..

.. which one is you, again?

[Straw Man]

97. Utah non-res now requires CCL from your home state. Did you miss that part?

In any case, I would imagine that the person who wants a Utah non-resident CCL yet has never fired a gun is a creature not unlike the left-handed virgin Appaloosa unicorn. Who do you think seeks out these permits? People who aren't really very interested in firearms? Please...

[Remmah2]

104. Add NY to the list.

Hands on handgun firing not required for the NY CCW permit.

[Katya Mullethov]

107. And as of a couple hours ago , you can add Wyoming

To the list of states openly declaring " SUCK IT " .

[oneshooter]

112. Just a lot of money! n/t

[krispos42]

110. Well, a couple of issues with your posts

Not factual issues, though. You did a good job. :-)


It's impossible to drive a car without using it. It is, however, almost guaranteed that you can carry concealed without using the gun. You're not shooting continuously as you wander about your daily business.


Not only that, but the number of people that buy a gun, get a permit, and never ever ever bother to try out their carry gun must be vanishingly small. First off, it's incredibly stupid: how do you know if your gun shoots your ammo reliably? How do you know your gun shoots straight? How do you know how the recoil feels? How do you practice recovering from recoil and lining up your next shot?

Okay, you can practice other stuff without live ammo. Dry-firing and dummy cartridges can be used to practice drawing and reholstering, control manipulation, trigger pull, sight alignment, reloading, etc. But the critical stuff... reliability and accuracy and noise/flash/recoil and jam-clearing, you need to get out to the range and shoot.

[Atypical Liberal]

113. AND IN SPITE OF THIS THEY ACCOUNT FOR HARDLY ANY CRIME.

And yet, for some reason, despite all this "lack of training", these people still hardly ever break the law - any law, let alone firearm-related laws.

Do you think it might be because people who decide to carry firearms are already quite comfortable with the use and operation of firearms?????

I live in Alabama. Yes, I could go get a concealed carry permit without a test. Of course, I've been shooting for 30 years.

These states don't bother with the expense of testing because they know that 1) people comfortable enough to carry a firearm on their person are probably already comfortable with firearms, and 2) CCW permit holders are very law-abiding people and hardly ever in trouble with the law anyway.

[Kennah]

115. Before 1987 ...

... there were just 10 Right To Carry states.

8 of them have no training requirement: Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Washington

2 of them have a training requirement: Connecticut and Maine

There were about 1 million carrier, maybe less.

Today there are 40 Right To Carry states, about 4-5 million carriers, and crime is down.

Training issue is a hollow argument.

[cleanhippie]

116. Never driven a car???? Don't worry, you can still buy a car in all 50 states.