Utah draws thousands for no-shooting-required gun permit

[struggle4progress]

By Corrie MacLaggan
AUSTIN, Tex. | Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:21pm EST

(Reuters) - Texans seeking concealed handgun licenses are increasingly turning to Utah, a state that does not require actually shooting a gun to get a permit.

"Once the word got out, everybody was doing it," said Texas state Rep. Lon Burnam.

From 2009 to 2010 the number of Utah permits issued to Texans more than doubled to 5,678 from 2,173, according to Utah's Bureau of Criminal Identification. Of the 66,371 permits Utah issued last year, more than 70 percent went to out-of-staters, bureau figures show. All this was while the overall number of concealed licenses issued in Utah declined.

Utah requires only four hours of training and no shooting, while Texas requires 10 hours, including firing a gun on a shooting range. The Utah fee is $65, compared to $140 in Texas. And it's possible to get a Utah permit without ever setting foot in that state ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/26/us-texas-guns-idUSTRE71P1RM20110226

[LARED]

1. I will need to keep this in mind

if I every get to Utah.

The question is will Texas or any other state honor that license.

[Oneka]

4. reciprocity map

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Many states have reciprocal agreements with Utah, concerning permit to carry.
Most all states require the permit holder to follow all carry laws in the state where they are carrying, not the state that issued the permit.

Not that we should EVER have to ask government permission to exercise civil rights.

[LARED]

9. Thanks nt

[crim son]

2. Insanity.

Why don't they give out driving permits without any actual driving, too?

[AtheistCrusader]

20. Because driving isn't a civil right.

Not having any problems with it in Washington State. (A solidly blue state)

[Katya Mullethov]

3. Texas makes you "drop and give em twenty"

Fuck them !

[S_B_Jackson]

5. In my experience, Texans aren't seeking a Utah permit...

as a means of avoiding the Texas exam, but as an ADDITION TO their Texas permit.

The reason is that with the addition of a UT non-resident permit, one increases the number of states in which you can carry from 33 (including Texas) to 36. The UT non-resident permit, for a minimal fee of $65 dollars, adds the states of Washington, Ohio, and West Virginia to the list of states in which you may legally carry your concealed firearm.

The shooting requirement which you, apparently, believe to be important is already covered by the Texas permit. The Utah standard is that you must demonstrate the ability to safely handle a firearm, and in practice this focuses upon your conduct in drawing and presenting a firearm without shooting. Actually this makes a fair amount of sence if you think about it as this is when many accidental/negligent discharges of a firearm occur.

[Old Codger]

6. Personally

I have both a Utah non resident and Oregon resident permits, Oregon does not honor any other states and only a few honor Oregon's, Washington does not honor Oregon but does honor Utah so when I go to Wash. I am covered. The classes I took for Oregon and Utah the instructors both required actual shooting regardless that the states did not require it.
(On Edit)

I took the Oregon course in Oregon, the Utah course in Minn. but actually went to Utah to apply.

[S_B_Jackson]

7. Similar to the Texas/Utah combination...

I've given thought to getting a Utah permit, and if I travelled to OH, WA, or WV I'd get one.

[RamboLiberal]

10. +1 I got a Utah permit last year in PA

Note my PA permit only costs $25 and requires no training or shooting test.

The Utah permit cost me $95 for the instruction & fingerprinting + the Utah fee of $65. I think the OP article may have left out the fact that people taking course from out-of-state Utah certified instructors are paying a fee to the instructors for the course. I doubt if Texas instructors are giving it away for free, so probably it's a wash for the Texans getting the Utah license compared to their state fee of $140.

The course was very comprehensive and was total of about 10 hours with no lunch break from instructor in my class. Yes that is how long it took in a class of 6 people to cover what Utah required.

I got the Utah permit because I travel in to Ohio and my PA permit does not have repriocity. Note my travels to Ohio are with guns because I'm going to handgunn comepetitions in that state.

BTW, last I heard Utah was moving towards not issuing permits to people without them having their own state's permit first.

[Oneka]

15. mn permit

In minnesota i recently got my permit to carry. The instructor i went through offered the UT permit class as an add on, the cost was $50.00 to the instructor and an additional 4 hours of class time.

[PavePusher]

8. Oh noes, Peoples are using their Constitutional Right to use their Constitutional Rights!

When will this ever end! Rivers of blood! The chilldrun! Shoot-outs over french fries! The moon swallowing the sun!



Whew, I feel better now....

[RSillsbee]

11. The following states do not require any sort of training before issuing a permit:

Currently, the following states do not require any sort of training before issuing a permit:

Alabama

California ( No state rquirement)

Georgia

Indiana

Mississippi

Montana

New Hampshire

Washington

And I'm sure there are others that I am unaware of.

What was your point again? Something about blood in the streets....? It's for the children....?

[RamboLiberal]

12. Add Pennsylvania to your list

Around $25 in most counties. No training.

[RSillsbee]

13. Lot's of dead children in PA right?

OMG why do I have to actually use this thing :sarcasm:

[RamboLiberal]

14. No - just dumbasses who shoot their friends in stripper bar

Of course that numbnuts was too dumb to even get the permit first.

Actually from what I've seen of some first timers on the range I wouldn't mind if my state required a one time safety course to get the license. I'd say the type of basic course the NRA teaches which range in cost in my area from around $25-$90 at various gun clubs & public ranges would suffice.

[Old Codger]

16. If you want

A Cal. license you better be good friends with the local sheriff, damn hard too get most places there.

[oneshooter]

23. You don't even have to know him!.....

Just send a large contribution to his reelection fund!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Taitertots]

17. People won't jump through arbitrary and capricious hoops

Have you ever paid for 10 hours of range and instructional time? Have you ever tried to get enrolled in a class like that?

If you don't have disposable income, an open schedule, and no responsibilities than those restrictions are arbitrary and capricious.

[RamboLiberal]

18. Read this - Utah has made a change in their law -Feb 14

The Legislature gave final approval Monday to a bill that would require out-of-state gun owners who seek a Utah concealed-weapon permit to first obtain a permit from their home states, if available.

The Senate voted 25-0 to accept earlier House amendments to SB36 and sent it to Gov. Gary Herbert. The House changes make it clear that out-of-state residents could apply immediately for a Utah permit if their home state does not recognize Utah’s.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51247063-76/bill-final-gun-permit.html.csp

Don't know if governor has signed yet.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. Washington State requires 0 hours of training and 0 shots fired for our permit.

And I like it that way.

[ileus]

21. I may have to get my Utah permit now.

[provis99]

22. Indiana requires NO training. Just $15 and no violent felony convictions.

You can get your concealed weapon permit at the local police station in about 15 minutes, like I did. A trip on the same day to the campus police department for a permit for carrying a concealed weapon on campus took only about five minutes.

on edit: it was $15 when I paid in 1999.

[May Hamm]

24. This was a productive discussion

Lots of interesting facts provided about various states and their requirements.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to my education.

[Tejas]

25. S.B. 36 substitute

http://le.utah.gov/~2011/htmdoc/sbillhtm/SB0036.htm

has been substututed by

http://le.utah.gov/~2011/htmdoc/sbillhtm/SB0036S01.htm



Bill Status/Votes
Last Action: 17 February 2011, Draft of Enrolled Bill Prepared
Last Location: Legislative Research and General Counsel / Enrolling
Bill Status/Votes Last Updated: 21 February 2011, 5:46 PM


Bill Status/Votes
http://le.utah.gov/~2011/status/sbillsta/sb0036s01.htm

[rl6214]

26. And another of the multiple threads on this topic

Boooring.

[May Hamm]

27. So don't read it.

No one forces you to click.

This was the most informative and least argumentative of the several discussions on this topic. I appreciated it and have no complaints.