Perspective on Guns and Mental Illness

[right2bfree]

Perspective on Guns and Mental Illness

By Marcia Purse,

About.com Guide

Updated February 16, 2009

In the wake of the tragedy at Virginia Tech University in April 2007, when student Seung-Hui Cho went on a shooting rampage that left more than 50 people dead or injured, the issue of firearms and mental illness has taken center stage. Our poll on guns and severe mental illness showed most people who voted felt that some stricter form of gun control is needed in the United States, but these were divided over how the issue should be addressed. Of course, some people are always going to go to extremes and/or slant their opinions to fit their personal agendas.

Sharon, a member of our bipolar disorder community, saw Wayne LaPierre, president of the National Rifle Association, on the CBS Morning Show, talking about a bill that passed the House on June 13, 2007. This bill requires (and provides funding for) states to send information on criminals and those judged to be mentally ill to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. Apparently this measure would have prevented Cho from purchasing the guns he used in the Virginia Tech shooting.

Sharon sent us an email, writing, "In the course of the LaPierre interview, he kept stressing that even the NRA doesn't want everybody to have guns, especially not people who are mentally defective. He said something to the effect that anyone with any history of mental illness or suicide ideation should not have access to firearms. No word on if that was a plan to block access permanently or just while the person's mental status is in question.....


More at:

http://bipolar.about.com/od/stigma/a/070616_lapierre.htm

[LAGC]

1. I would be curious to know who all Wayne LaPierre thinks is "mentally defective."

That is kind of a broad brush he uses there.

As for shooter Cho, if he didn't pass his NICS check, he could have just bought his guns through a private party.

If that wasn't an option, I'm sure he would have just resorted to other weapons.

What we really need is more funding for mental health care in this country, so that disturbed people get all the help they need.

Restricting certain weapons from them isn't going to do the trick, as people intent on mass-murder WILL find a way, whether its arson, poison, knives, bombs, etc.

It just seems the whole "universal background check" idea is just a futile effort, akin to trying to put a tiny band-aid on a big, gaping wound.

[right2bfree]

5. What it boils down to is that many Americans are mentally ill. You dont take anti-depressants unless

you have a mental illness. All we are saying is that guns need to be taken away during
their recovery for our own good and thiers.

If no recovery is possible then the guns will have to be sold and the
money given to the insane person.

[LAGC]

7. I don't know, that sounds like it would apply to a lot of innocent people.

Most mentally ill people can function just fine while they are on their meds.

Should any of their other Constitutional rights be taken away from them? No free speech for the mentally ill? No protection against unlawful search and seizure? Why take away their gun rights?

[right2bfree]

9. The cops are allowed to search for guns under a 5150 gun hold in CA., so yes. nt

[Euromutt]

17. "All we are saying"? Who is "we"?

Frankly, from your choice of examples and wording, I get the impression your understanding of mental disorders is minimal at best.

Yes, if you're taking anti-depressants, you've probably been diagnosed with major depressive disorder. It also means you're getting it treated.
Mentally ill people who are being adequately treated are no more violent than the non-mentally ill.
That goes for those suffering from clinical depression, but also for those suffering from bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, which are incidentally the three categories of disorder that can result in psychoses/psychotic episodes if left untreated, particularly schizophrenia.

So it's not the people taking anti-depressants (for depression), mood stabilizers (for bipolar disorder) or antipsychotics you need to worry about: it's the people who aren't, but should be. It's worth pointing out that many mental disorders cannot, strictly speaking, be cured, but they can be managed. The fact there will, strictly speaking, be no permanent recovery doesn't mean the individual is even temporarily a threat to others.

Note, incidentally, that that Section 5150 Involuntary Psychiatric Hold you're so inordinately fond of requires probable cause to impose; the subject must be (reasonably believed to be) an immediate threat to himself or others, or be suffering grave disability, and these issues must exist within the context of mental illness. It's not enough for a person merely to have been diagnosed with a mental disorder; they have to actually present a threat before you can try to deprive them of liberty and property.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[old mark]

10. Many states have laws against buying guns-especially handguns-privately.

It is really not as easy as many people think or are led to believe, and the background check IS a good system. But there are thousands of guns and background checks in the US every day, and there evidently was nothing that met the legal requirement to be added to the Ohio shooter's record.

I am amazed thatso many people here think people suffering mental illness are by definition violent, and that so many seem to love the idea that government has so many records or files on EVERYONE...I thought people here were liberals.


mark

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. The real issue is not private sales, but that private sellers are not allowed to use NICS to check

on buyers.

There is no technical limitation today that instant checks can not be run for private transactions. Those who oppose allowing that are also that oppose private firearms in general. That is a clue

[spin]

12. "Mentally ill" as used in the NICS Act was defined in 1968 ...

Q. Federal law prohibits people who are dangerously mentally ill from purchasing or possessing a gun. Does the NICS Act change who is covered by this prohibition?

A. No. The NICS Act does not change the prohibition enacted in 1968 that bars people who are dangerously mentally ill from purchasing or possessing a gun. Under federal law, people may not buy or possess a gun if they are “adjudicated as a mental defective” or “committed to any mental institution.” ATF regulations define “adjudicated as a mental defective” as a:

determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) Is a danger to himself or others; or (2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. emphasis added

The NICS Act has not changed these regulations. It should be noted that merely seeking or receiving treatment for mental illness does not bring someone within this prohibited class.

***snip***
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/nics

Note: This info comes courtesy of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

[Glassunion]

13. That describes most of the employees of FOX News.

[spin]

14. LOL. Good one. (n/t)

[provis99]

2. what does being mentally ill have to do with propensity to shoot people?

Is there a mental illness that specifically states giving this person a gun will make them shoot people? Granted, there are some people suffering from gunphilia (mainly in the gungeon), but that's not quite the same thing.

Mentally ill people are not any more likely to commit a violent crime than a sane person, so what is the basis for keeping guns away from them? Mentally ill people, are however MORE likely than normal people to be the victims of crime.

[Posteritatis]

3. There's a really annoying not-quite-consensus about that on DU it seems

I'm convinced a lot of people here think there is a single disease called "mental illness," and that it makes people intrinsically violent or erratic.

[HereSince1628]

4. Yes, that's one of many misconceptions about the mentally ill but it fits into

a general pattern of human socialization. It's easy to take a perception (or misperception) and generalize it into a rule governing our interactions with an entire subgroup in society. A lot easier than making unique judgements on each person.

The mentally ill are generally thought of as not-like-me's. Because most of us don't deal with not-like-me's we know very little about the not-like-me's. The less we know an individual, the more we've got to use generalizations (prejudices) to make the snap decisions that we make about people all day long. And these are often very low information decisions are based on almost no evidence and/or evidence that is more mistaken than accurate.

Just like infectious illness will affect almost everyone at some point, mental illness will also affect almost everyone. Sometimes these are chronic illnesses but mostly they are not. Additionaly just as not every person with an infectious illness gets diagnosed and treated, many of the mentally ill around us do not get diagnosed and treated. Many mentally ill get beyond their acute problem with no help, just like most people with influenza or common cold. They don't even realize they've ever been mentally ill. And so the vast majority of the not-yet-diagnosed mentally ill sense some cognitive dissonance with the statement of Mark Vonnegut (an MD, a schizophrenic, and son of Kurt Vonnegut) who said that the mentally ill are "Just like someone without mental illness only more so."

On inspection of the following abbreviated list of common mental illnesses many of the not-yet-diagnosed-mentally ill would recognize something that they've experienced or are experiencing themselves, or recognizable from someone they know, who they didn't or don't consider mentally ill.



* Acute stress disorder
* Adjustment disorder
* Adolescent antisocial behavior
* Adult antisocial behavior
* Adverse effects of medication-not otherwise specified
* Age-related cognitive decline
* Agoraphobia
* Agoraphobia without history of panic disorder
* Alcohol-related disorder
* Alzheimers
* Amnestic disorder
* Amphetamine (or amphetamine-like)-related disorder
* Anorexia nervosa
* Antisocial personality disorder
* Anxiety disorder
* Anxiolytic-related disorder
* Asperger syndrome
* Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder
* Atypical autism
* Autistic disorder
* Autophagia
* Avoidant personality disorder
* Bereavement
* Bibliomania
* Binge eating disorder
* Bipolar disorder
* Body dysmorphic disorder
* Borderline intellectual functioning
* Borderline personality disorder
* Breathing-related sleep disorder
* Brief psychotic disorder
* Bulimia nervosa
* Caffeine-related disorder
* Cannabis-related disorder
* Catatonic disorder
* Catatonic Schizophrenia
* Childhood antisocial behavior
* Childhood Disintegrative Disorder
* Chronic motor or vocal tic disorder
* Circadian rhythm sleep disorder
* Clinical Depression
* Cocaine-related disorder
* Cognitive disorder
* Communication disorder
* Conduct disorder
* Conversion disorder
* Eating disorder not otherwise specified
* Echolalia
* Echopraxia
* Emotional disorder
* Encopresis
* Enuresis (not due to a general medical condition)
* Exhibitionism
* Expressive language disorder
* Factitious disorder
* Fregoli delusion
* Ganser syndrome
* Gender identity disorder
* Generalized anxiety disorder
* General adaptation syndrome
* Hallucinogen-related disorder
* Histrionic personality disorder
* Huntington's disease
* Hypomanic episode
* Impulse control disorder
* Impulse-control disorder not elsewhere classified
* Inhalant-related disorder
* Insomnia due to a general medical condition
* Intermittent explosive disorder
* Joubert syndrome
* Kleptomania
* Kendall Nicole Baughn
* Learning disorders
* Major depressive disorder
* Major depressive episode
* Male erectile disorder
* Malingering
* Manic episode
* Mathematics disorder
* Medication-related disorder
* Megalomania
* Melancholia
* Mental disorder-not otherwise specified due to a general medical condition
* Mental Retardation
* Mixed episode
* Mixed receptive-expressive language disorder
* Mood disorder
* Mood episode
* Motor skills disorder
* Munchausen's syndrome
* Munchausen's syndrome by proxy
* Multi-Personality Disorder
* Narcissistic personality disorder
* Narcolepsy
* Neglect of child
* Neuroleptic-related disorder
* Nicotine-related disorder
* Nightmare disorder
* Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)
* Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD)
* Occupational problem
* Oneirophrenia
* Opioid-related disorder
* Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD)
* Pain disorder
* Panic attack
* Panic disorder with agoraphobia
* Panic disorder without agoraphobia
* Paranoid personality disorder
* Parasomnia
* Parent-child relational problem
* Partner relational problem
* Pathological gambling
* Perfectionism
* Personality change due to a general medical condition
* Personality disorder
* Pervasive developmental disorder (PDD)
* Phase of life problem
* Phencyclidine (or phencyclidine-like)-related disorder
* Phonological disorder
* Physical abuse
* Pica
* Polysubstance-related disorder
* Post-traumatic embitterment disorder (PTED)
* Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD)
* Premature ejaculation
* Primary hypersomnia
* Primary insomnia
* Psychological factor affecting medical condition
* Psychotic disorder
* Pyromania
* Reactive Attachment Disorder of infancy or early childhood
* Reading disorder
* Relational disorder
* Relational problem
* Religious or spiritual problem
* Residual schizophrenia
* Rett's disorder
* Rumination syndrome
* Schizoaffective disorder
* Schizoid personality disorder
* Schizophrenia
* Schizophreniform disorder
* Schizotypal personality disorder
* Sedative-, hypnotic-, or anxiolytic-related disorder
* Selective mutism
* Separation anxiety disorder
* Severe mental retardation
* Shared psychotic disorder
* Sibling relational problem
* Sleep disorder
* Sleep terror disorder
* Sleepwalking disorder
* Social phobia (Social anxiety disorder)
* Somatization disorder
* Somatoform disorder
* Specific phobia
* Stereotypic movement disorder
* Stuttering
* Substance-related disorder
* Tardive dyskinesia
* Tic disorder
* Tourette's disorder
* Transient tic disorder
* Trichotillomania

[old mark]

8. K&R- There are several problems with this-We in the US have HIPPA

laws as well as other laws that PROHIBIT medical information-which includes psychiatric information-from being released. This was put in place to enhance people's right to privacy and confidentiality-medical records acn be used against someone in any number of situations, especially in employment issues.
So we have people who want to have MORE of an individual's private information given to the government, and they are often the same people who wanted that information kept private to begin with.

You cannot tell the cops that "someone is acting crazy" and have that appear in the individual's official file in some Federal computer-that is not legal, or even moral.

Other people have no right to your medical history, and you have no right to theirs.

mark

[Posteritatis]

16. Emphatically agreed. (nt)

[slackmaster]

11. It seems that everyone has a community now

I'm a proud member of the Moody Loner Community.

[one-eyed fat man]

18. I am a curmudgeon

These guys were my heroes! Ann Margeret is still as hot as she was when I saw her in Viet Nam.