Colleges reject flawed ‘guns on campus' logic Dr. Eric Reno president of Northeast Lakeview College

[jpak]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/community/northeast/news/article/Colleges-reject-flawed-guns-on-campus-logic-1025678.php

I read State Sen. Jeff Wentworth's guest commentary in the Feb. 3 edition of the Northeast Herald with a great deal of personal and professional interest. The Senate and House proposals to allow licensed concealed gun holders to bring guns onto college campuses and into classrooms and dormitories are not supported by those most affected by the legislation – the colleges themselves.

Our position is not based on political or ideological considerations, but rather on practical and common sense concerns. The logic supplied in the article on allowing concealed guns on college campuses, if valid, should then apply to any institution: K-12; all local governmental facilities; all facilities of the State Capitol, including the Senate and the House chambers; courts; churches; all forms of commercial transportation; and sporting events.

We have experienced tragic gun violence at Northeast Lakeview College, committed by a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Many others who have committed shootings across the country have also been licensed gun holders. No one could have prevented our tragedy, no matter how many people would have been carrying a gun.

Nor do our own and surrounding law enforcement officers, faculty, administrators, and students want to be in the position of trying to figure out who is the true assailant, among all those carrying guns on campus during the chaos of a live shooting incident.

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[hack89]

1. The gun man at Northeast Lakeview College was mentally ill

and stalked a particular victim. Tell me again how banning guns on campus would have made a difference?

[HockeyMom]

2. If nobody on campus, WANTED to carry guns

how would that help either? You cannot FORCE people to own or carry guns if they don't want to. Ever consider that?

[hack89]

6. Who said anything about forcing anyone to carry guns?

the law simply give those people over 21 and presently holding a CCW to carry on campus.

If people don't want to carry guns, they don't have to.

[jpak]

3. mentally ill and still able to get a gun and a CCW permit

yup

[provis99]

4. worked for me in Indiana.

[jpak]

11. which is exactly why we should ban CCW from college campuses

yup

[spin]

28. Yup. Only those with severe mental problems will carry firearms on campus ...

that makes real sense.

Yup, yup, yup.

[hack89]

5. He got his permit 10 years ago

I don't know if he was ever adjudicated mentally unfit to carry a gun.

The point is that a law would not have stopped him from carrying a gun on campus and killing someone - he didn't care.

[Ken_Fish]

8. Police officer, still able to murder someone? What to ban, popo, college

ban something quick like. lobstah (some lobstermen shot each other over traps, ban the underwater spider to save mankind).

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/mid-atlantic-christian-university-student-killed

[rl6214]

9. LINK?

You've got one, right?

[jpak]

12. read the hack89's post

:rofl:

[Ken_Fish]

7. N = millions... you now have one , congrats.

on not jack shit. The one in Elizabeth City you referenced was a police officer murdering someone...

Better ban police?

[speltwon]

10. Yet again, speculative illogic used against empirical evidence

Why am I not surprised? I haven't seen a lot of "chaos of a live shooting incident" negative effects vis a vis CCW *off* campus, why should it happen on campus. Is there something in the rarefied air of a college campus that makes CCW holders irrational? What about all the colleges in this country that allow CCW? Where's the "chaos"? Oh right. There is none. But well, evidence doesn't matter to these speculators.

[jpak]

13. An asshole with a CCW permit was involved in a shooting at Northeast Lakeview

Is the president of that college a liar?

huh?

[Ken_Fish]

14. Was he a police officer?(nt)

[jpak]

15. no - just an asshole with a permit

yup

[Ken_Fish]

17. vs this asshole cop murderer?

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/mid-atlantic-christian-university-student-killed

stats are on my side. feelings dont get very far.

[speltwon]

16. great and again...

is there any evidence that allowing CCW's on campus increases such criminality either in frequency of occurrence or in severity? He wasn't allowed on that campus with a CCW in that state. But the policy didn't stop him, clearly.

A no guns on campus policy will not stop somebody from coming on campus with a gun (CCW or not) and committing the crime. The ISSUE is does allowing people to legally carry on campus reduce, increase, or have negligible effect on such incidents? That would be relevant info.

[jpak]

19. and again - what is an acceptable death toll?

:shrug:

[Ken_Fish]

21. 1 less than the DWI stack of bodies? No booze

mentioned in bill of rights.. You wanna to ban the drinky?

[jpak]

22. The drinky is banned for all students under 21 and none in the classrooms or dorms

yup

[YllwFvr]

32. booze is banned on campus?

that must mean there isnt a drop on school property right? Or do they not care and bring it in anyway?

[Ken_Fish]

34. right, so is the tweed. and therefore since it is banned

no one ever smokes weed or drinks underage on a college campus.. EVER.

[Hangingon]

35. TX CHL not given to under 21 -

same

YUP

[speltwon]

23. What is your evidence there is ANY death toll. For all you know there might be LESS deaths

for campuses that allow CCW. That's my point. You are making the unsupported assumption that allowing CCW's on campus results in a "death toll". LOTS of campuses allow CCW. Are they less safe? If so, provide evidence.

[jpak]

26. Why don't you read the OP written by a college president on a campus that suffered gun deaths

I will post it again so you won't mis it....

<snip>

We have experienced tragic gun violence at Northeast Lakeview College, committed by a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Many others who have committed shootings across the country have also been licensed gun holders. No one could have prevented our tragedy, no matter how many people would have been carrying a gun.

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get it

prolly not

[speltwon]

27. He doesn't provide evidence of what I said

He said there was a heinous crime on campus. A campus that prohibits CCW. And that crime was perpetrated by somebody with a CCW. Did the anti-CCW policy prevent that crime? Is there any evidence it prevents ANY crime? And again, where is the evidence that allowing CCW on campus would increase either the likelihood or severity of such crimes? Considering that many campuses allow CCW, it would be easy to compare violent crimes at campuses that allow vs. disallow CCW. Yet he didn't do that. Nor do you. Those of us in the reality based community prefer reality and evidence.

[jpak]

29. You should contact Dr. Reno and tell him he's not doing his job in a republic politically correct

manner

yup

[speltwon]

30. He's not preventing facts to support his policy position

It has nothing to do with political correctness. It has to do with facts, evidence, and how a pro or anti campus CCW policy affects safety.

[Euromutt]

38. "Death." Singular. Not "deaths."

The college had exactly one gun death, and that was fairly obviously a case of premeditated murder. The guy brought a pair of earmuffs which he put on before he started shooting, fer chrissakes.

And again, it's not clear that Godin possessed a CHL at the time, or whether it was issued before or after he supposedly started suffering from transient global amnesia and started medicating himself with dubious "supplements."

[beevul]

18. We should care what Eric Reno says or thinks...why exactly?

"Nor do our own and surrounding law enforcement officers, faculty, administrators, and students want to be in the position of trying to figure out who is the true assailant, among all those carrying guns on campus during the chaos of a live shooting incident."

Yeah, I'm sure they'd rather know for certain who the shooter is in a live fire shooting incident and be able to do nothing about it, like VT. :eyes:


We should care what Eric Reno says or thinks...why exactly?

[jpak]

20. Because he's a Texas college president that doesn't want concealed weapons on campus

that's why

yup

[beevul]

24. So what. N/T

[jpak]

25. Because asshole republics want to destroy his college's learning environment with their stupid guns

and endanger the lives of everyone that works there.

That's why

yup

[beevul]

31. Opinion. Meh. N/T

[friendly_iconoclast]

36. Like they've destroyed the "learning environments" in Utah, Washington, and Colorado?

Oh, yeah - they haven't.

A slight detail you seem loathe to discuss.

[Callisto32]

37. NUH-UH!

[lawodevolution]

33. I found out he had a CHL 10 years ago, but nothing about having on at the time of the shooting

[Name removed]

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