Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

No gun control. Not now! Not Ever!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:34 PM
Original message
No gun control. Not now! Not Ever!
The title of my post is sometimes falsely used to convey the thought that anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment feels about any type of gun control. That those who support the 2nd Amendment somehow share the thought that everyone should be armed, all the time, with anything that they want. This is not so.

The problem as I see it is that yes we do push against some gun control laws, but that push back is misconstrued into “Unreasonable” or lacking in “Common Sense”. The issue I have with most gun control laws is that they violate not just our 2nd Amendment rights, but our other rights as well. Usually the wording, or rules, or regulations, will single out owners of firearms for undue burdens, searches, or privacy violations along with the legislation or they negate our right to equal protection under the law. Some of these laws also prevent redress from our government in cases where nothing illegal was done. These are usually the laws I stand strongly against. I do not feel that this is unreasonable or lacking in common sense.

In fact there are many gun control laws that I support. Some in fact, I wish were more strict. Take for example the “Brady Bill” which morphed into the NICS system that we have today. For those who don’t know what NICS is; it is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System that is used to verify that an individual is eligible to purchase firearms. The Brady Campaign has complained that the NICS system should be fully funded. I whole heartedly agree. I would like to go one step further and make it mandatory for all states to be in 100% compliance. I personally cannot believe that it is in the state that it is in. Remember, this is the system that is set up to prevent people who should not be able to purchase firearms, well… from purchasing them from a dealer. Currently there are some estimates that the lists are missing about 58% of the entries that should be in there.

Another issue as I see it is that the gun control laws that we do agree with rarely get discussed around here. The majority of posts are either gun control laws that are divisive or gun relaxation laws that are divisive. What’s the point of starting a topic where everyone agrees? It would be an OP with 20 replies of yes. So I took a look at all federal firearm related bills that have been submitted in the current session and thought I would see how I feel about them.

Here is one from Jan 7th.
H.R. 227: Child Gun Safety and Gun Access Prevention Act of 2011 Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX18)
I like and do not like this bill at the same time. It is poorly written, and the language is too vague, because it uses words without definition. The first three sections of the bill reduce the legal age to possess or purchase the majority of firearms available for sale from age 18 to 21. It specifically prohibits the possession(or purchase) of “semiautomatic assault weapons” or “large capacity ammunition feeding device” without defining what those are. Technically speaking, I have an Air Soft toy that can fall under this law as written. The exceptions to this prohibition are not sufficient as well. Basically, if you are 20 years old, living alone, you are prohibited having a 5 shot revolver for home defense. And, if you want to go hunting with the rifle you already own, you will have to pick it up from Mommy’s house while you go out to use it and return it when you are done. And as an adult, you will need a note from your Mommy to state you have permission under those exceptions to be in possession of your own possessions? Sorry, but I cannot agree with that portion of the law as written.

Section 4 of the bill is basically a requirement that all firearms sold are accompanied with a safety lock. I whole heartedly agree. My state currently has this as a requirement and it has not seemed to cause any undue burden of the dealers. When you purchase a firearm, your also paying for the safety lock.

Section 5 of the bill I also like. It amends that if a child is hurt or killed by a firearm, that there are specific penalties(prison / fines) if the firearm was found to not be secure. I do however have a small problem(more of a WTF?) with one of the exceptions. (C) the child uses the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of 1 or more other persons;. If the firearm was supposed to be secure, how the hell would they be able to use the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense? Just pondering…

Section 6. Simple answer is that I like it. Basically states that no one under 18 shall not attend a gun show without an adult.

Sections 7 & 8. I love it. Basically offers funding to sponsor gun safety classes for parents and their children at times that would be convenient for working adults and their children to attend. AND! (I will just post the text of the bill…) (1) each school district should provide or participate in a firearms safety program for students in grades kindergarten through 12 and should consult with a certified firearms instructor before establishing the curriculum for the program; and(2) participation by students in a firearms safety program should not be mandatory if the district receives written notice from a parent of the student to exempt the student from the program. How awesome is that?!?!

So, please do not assume that everyone who supports the 2nd Amendment is somehow against all gun control. I can wage that most of us are for the vast majority of the controls we already have in place and would be in support for others to go into place. This gun control bill that I outlined, I would like to see changed. As I am in full support of the majority of it.

If I may also suggest looking at the following bills that have been submitted in our current session of Congress: H.R. 126, H.R. 58, H.R. 77, H.R. 308(I already have a post on that one), H.R. 496 and H.R. 505.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes gun control. Learn to control your gun, aim well.
But no more government regulation, censorship and threats against my heritage and culture please. Learn to respect the cultures and values of others. I was born into a family of gun owners and generations before me own guns.

Some people want to ban burkas, hip hop music or even libraries because someone somewhere thinks those are great threats to society.

Coexist! That includes coexisting with me and my culture.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have absolutely mellowed on gun control...
I am not a gun owner and for most of my life have been anti gun control and anti NRA and pretty much just how you described.

However, the Bush years and all the recent police state activities continued under this admin have made me think twice about my narrow mindedness. I still don't see myself ever owning a gun but I can completely understand people who do, whereas previously I could not. And it helps that I've met many more reasonable gun owners in recent years who have convinced me of what you wrote above.

Thanks for a good post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You will find that most legal gun-owners are just like you and if they're
carrying concealed, you'd never, ever know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. I prefer no "new" gun control.
They got the NFA. Heavily restricts automatic weapons shortbarrel shotguns and destructive devices.

They got the GCA. No more mail order gun sales. No gun or ammunition sales to those under 18 or handgun sale to those under 21.

They got the hughes amendment. Closes the NFA registry.

They got the brady bill and background checks at retail.

They got prohibitions on mentally ill, domestic abusers and violent felons.

They called every one of them common sense and reasonable. Then now pretend we don't have any, in an attempt to pass more.

Every time they attempt this, from now on, I suggest proposing to repeal what already exists, to call that particular bluff.

No new gun control.

No more.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. We have lots of gun control laws already on the books
Let's enforce them. My beef is with those who never seem satisfied with the laws on the books and constantly demand more and more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. My responses..
HR 227 --

Sec 2) Nope, if you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to own a gun.

Sec 4) Fine in idea, terrible in practice. If a pawn broker takes a gun in, he has to eat the cost of a safety device.

Sec 6) Impossible to enforce, no definitions, and serves what purpose? Are gun shows somehow dangerous to kids?

Others, fine.

HR 126 -- agreed

HR 58 -- agreed

HR 77 -- Not really seeing this as gun control.

HR 496 -- No text, but may run afoul of the 10th amendment, 4th amendment, etc.

HR 505 -- No text yet.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thanks.
Hr77 showed up in my search because they are asking for unspecified weapons and body armor. Sorry.

I am interested in seeing the two bills without text yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sense coming from Jackson-Lee is as likely as
being able to see the Apollo flag from Mars.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. From the reading of the bill, it would seem she understands very little about firearms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC