Woman accidentally shot when man drops gun at Houston restaurant.

[ScreamingMeemie]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7381036.html

snip-

A woman was struck by gunfire Thursday night after a pistol discharged when it was dropped by a patron at a restaurant in Kingwood, Houston police said.

The woman and the gun owner were both customers at Raffa's American Bistro, 1660 W. Lake Houston Parkway.

The gun owner, a 66-year-old man, was moving his coat about 8:30 p.m. when his Derringer pistol fell to the floor. It fired and struck a woman who was in a nearby booth, Houston police said.

-snip

snip-

The man has a license to carry a handgun. Harris County prosecutors late Thursday declined to accept any charges against him, police said.


-snip


My own words: The restaurant had a no guns allowed sign clearly posted, per the evening newscast.

[malaise]

1. Guns rule n/t

[Ilsa]

2. Sounds like she needs to sue his ass for violating that law.

I see no reason why a victim shouldn't sue the person for personal assets. He obviously wasn't keeping his gun safe.

[Shagbark Hickory]

24. Probably better to sue the restaurant.

If its a$$ets they're wanting.

[pipoman]

54. Most CCW states have also enacted liability protection

for those not directly responsible for accidents involving ccw.

[Euromutt]

60. The OP doesn't say it was a "30.06" sign

As I understand it, in Texas it's a criminal offense to carry a firearm, even with a CHP, in any location which has a "51%" sign (indicating that more than 50% of the business' revenue comes from sales of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises) or a "30.06" sign (so named after the relevant section of the Texas code). These signs have to conform to certain specifications in design and placement, or they have no legal force. In principle, if the business staff discover you're carrying, they can ask you to leave (and you'll be guilty of trespassing if you don't) but they can't have to arrested for violating section 30.06.

In fact, it seems to be a popular dodge in Texas for business owners to put up "no guns" signs that intentionally don't conform to 30.06 specifications, so as to placate the firearm-averse while not turning away concealed carriers.

But I can't disagree that the lady ought to sue for personal injury.

[Ezlivin]

3. If she'd been armed it wouldn't have happened

The correct answer is: More guns.

[snagglepuss]

4. Why won't prosecutors press charges? Isn't there a way to carry firearms without them discharging

accidentally?

[Critters2]

21. The prosecutor won't press charges because it's Texas, and he'd like to be re-elected. nt

[spin]

36. Usually small firearms have a method to prevent firing if dropped ...

For example my daughter sometimes carries a NAA mini revolver that she calls her "get away from me" gun.



If you place the hammer on a live round and drop the weapon, it may fire. You place the hammer in a "halfway notch" to prevent this.

Older NAA revolvers might not have had this feature.

North American Arms Mini-Revolvers are equipped with a unique safety cylinder, giving you maximum protection against accidental discharge.

The North American Arms Safety Cylinder feature allows the gun to be carried fully loaded. There are halfway notches located between the chambers. The hammer is lowered into one of these notches after the gun is loaded. When the hammer is pulled back to the firing position the cylinder rotates to the next chamber.

NOTE: The traditional half-cock position is to be used for loading and unloading only. THE HAMMER SHOULD NEVER REST IN THE HALF-COCK POSITION OVER A LIVE CARTRIDGE, OR ON THE RIM OF A LIVE CARTRIDGE.

If you have an older model NAA Mini-Revolver, or know someone who does, please check to see if it is equipped with the NAA Safety Cylinder - if not please call at 800-821-5783 to find out how to update the gun to the new cylinder.
emphasis added

NAA Mini-Revolvers come with a Lifetime Warranty. If anything should ever go wrong with your Mini-Revolver, please call Customer Support to find out how to send the gun to us for repair.
http://www.naaminis.com/naasafe.html

[Hangingon]

63. Use the old Colt single action rule,,,

Hammer down on an empty chamber. I know - modern revolvers like Ruger's transfer bar make it safe to carry with the hammer on a loaded chamber, but I am old and set in the habit my grandfather put me in.

[Euromutt]

61. Frankly, I'm surprised

As other posters have noted, most handguns manufactured in the past 30 years or so are "drop safe"; they have mechanisms that stop the firing pin from striking a chambered round unless and until the trigger is pulled. Any responsible gun owner would additionally carry the firearm in a holster a) with some form of retention, and b) that covers the trigger guard, so as to prevent inadvertent pulling of the trigger.

Note that there are handguns and holsters out there aren't drop-safe and don't cover the trigger guard, but that are mainly intended for competition shooting, and shouldn't be used when out and about in public.

I honestly don't understand why anyone would carry a derringer in this day and age, with so many better and safer guns around. And in my opinion, yes, the public prosecutor should totally nail this guy on at least a reckless endangerment charge.

[elocs]

5. She shouldn't have gotten in the way of his right to carry. n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

6. No Funeral, No Foul

but I hope she sues the crap out of him

[Solly Mack]

7. I hope she can sue...and wins.

[right2bfree]

50. As do I. nt

[bergie321]

8. Guns don't kill people

...They just wound them?

[Bucky]

14. ...it's those little bullets that come out of them.

I like the old Jack Nicholson line. He rubs garlic on his bullets so that "If the bullets don't kill 'em, the poison will."

Had that woman been in an Italian restaurant and that bullet had only ricocheted off the wrong plate first... she'd be dead now.

[saras]

40. Was Nicholson fighting vampires?

Ricin might work, but garlic seems pretty useless.

[Vickers]

9. A Derringer?

Wow.

[ScreamingMeemie]

12. I think, in this case, they are using it to describe a palm pistol, of which

they aren't sure of manufacture. I could be wrong. This is Texas after all.

[onethatcares]

23. they come in many calibers

all the way up to .40 and that will put a big hole in a person.

[Arctic Dave]

10. I smell a good case for negligence.

[YllwFvr]

27. agreed

when you choose to carry you accept a lot of responsibility. If Im carrying I tend to carry myself differently, be less confrontational, and im very aware of how well im concealing, if I bother. Its just my opinion, but I believe retention holsters, or holsters that keep the gun secure with a button or thumbstrap, are a must when carrying. It must have been in a jacket pocket to fall out like that.

I also only carry firearms that will not go off if dropped. They only fire if the trigger is pulled, and thats covered by the holster. This man is likely an irresponsible dumbass. I am rather surprised he isnt being charged with something.

[davidinalameda]

11. oops

dumbass should have had the safety on

[onethatcares]

15. no safety on single shot derringers, I don't think there's on on

double barrels either but I might be mistaken. I don't think there's a safety on revolvers either for that matter, it's a matter of the hammer being pulled back or the trigger being pulled for a double action. If I'm wrong I am open to correction.

[dogday]

20. Correct, no safety on this two shot that hit the floor and went off.

:hi:

[David West]

67. Modern revolvers have internal safeties.

Any revolver made in the last couple decades should have either a transfer bar or a hammer block that renders it impossible for a fall on the hammer to set the gun off.

Carrying a gun in a loose article of clothing like a jacket or a purse is just stupid. I'm a big believer in active retention holsters.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YllwFvr]

28. a gun that isnt crap wont go off

if dropped, and it should have been carried so it wouldnt fall out. A decent holster securely holds then gun in place so that even if grabbed and yanked hard it wont come out. This man obviously takes no personal responsibility with his firearms and such carelessness speaks poorly for his character.

[K8-EEE]

13. If only SHE would have had a gun and accidentally dropped it...

And shot THIS guy, then she wouldn't have been shot! IF ONLY THERE WAS ONE MORE LOADED GUN IN THAT RESTAURANT....

[Critters2]

22. +1 nt

[RSillsbee]

43. Given it was Houston

There very likely were more loaded guns in that restaurant

[RamboLiberal]

16. Guns should not be carried in a pocket (or a waistband)

without a holster. Majority of small guns including derringers you can buy a pocket holster or get a holster made.

[Ozymanithrax]

17. If through gross negligence, you hit someone with your licensed car...

you will be ticketed, charged, fined, and possibly go to jail

If you shoot someone through gross negligence with a licensed gun, that is OK.

[Tesha]

25. That's the beauty of all of our gun laws! None of them actually *DO* anything! (NT)

[RamboLiberal]

30. Good chance they may pull his CCW

They do frown on stupid incidents like this. Or send him back to gun safety class.

[TheCowsCameHome]

31. Or make him head of security at Raffa's

This is Texas we're talking about.

[Ozymanithrax]

57. Wow, gun safety class... that'll teach. n/t

[right2bfree]

49. It is in Ignore-Texas. nt

[NoPasaran]

18. If only SUperman had been there none of this would have happened

[TheCowsCameHome]

26. Go out for a meal,

and have some clumsy fuck drop his gun and shoot you.

Wonderful.

Enjoy your dinner.

[RamboLiberal]

29. I see more incidents of cars being accidentally driven

through restaurants and & retail stores than incidents of some doofus dropping his gun and wounding someone.

BTW vast majority of guns will not fire when drop. Who knows what kind of stupid ass little derringer this doofus was carrying (and probably not in a holster).

If you want a reliable little pocket gun go get an LCP or LCR or other of the newer little pocket guns (and a <$20 pocket holster)for < $350.

[lawodevolution]

32. Stop making intelligent posts, you've highjacked this thread full of 5 year old level

Posts.

[TPaine7]

33. I see two legitimate solutions that pass constitutional and common sense tests:

1) Concealed Carry permit holders can only carry, in public, guns that have been tested drop safe per a reasonable federal safety specification. No grandfathering of older weapons will be allowed, though older guns could be retrofitted.
2) If a properly maintained gun--of a type that the manufacturer certifies to pass the test--fails and causes such an accidental discharge in a public place, that manufacturer will be fully liable.

[demigoddess]

34. he should be charged

responsibility is more than just a word

[Hoyt]

35. That never happens according to the guns-in-every-waistband crowd.

[spin]

37. Experienced shooters carry firearms in holsters ...

fools and criminals carry in their waistband.

[Hoyt]

38. Inexperienced folks get permits easily. Plus, some folks are just too sure of their expertise.

The guy in question would probably tell you how he's been shooting for 60 years, received further training in the military, was a 50 year target shooter, had better training than the police, had shot 1000s of paper targets, carried to protect himself and innocent citizens held hostage, etc. He'd be wrong too.

[spin]

42. If the individual really had all that experience, he would have his weapon in a holster. (n/t)

[Straw Man]

39. Eh?

I have never heard that claim. Could you point me to where on this forum you have heard it? If not, set that straw man on fire.

[friendly_iconoclast]

41. By all means torch the old boy, that straw's getting pretty ratty by now.

That poor straw guy has made appearances in a lot of threads recently- and it shows.

[guitar man]

44. Take that idiot's ccw

And never give it back. That's some stupid, irresponsible shit, coat pocket, no holster... Careless !! :grr:

[Tesha]

51. The hell with his CCW - Take his house(s), autos, and every other piece of tangible property.

What we need is a group that routinely backs massive lawsuits
on behalf of each and every person who is hurt by an ignorant,
inattentive, devil-may-care gun owner. Maybe we can't legislate
that gun owners have to "own" the damage that they and their
weapons do to society, but in most places, at least until the
NRA buys them some immunity laws, we can certainly *LITIGATE*
to force gun individual owners to accept responsibility.

Tesha

[guitar man]

52. I do hope she sues his ass

I've owned guns and have been shooting all my life. I am an advocate for the rights of responsible gun owners but I have no tolerance for reckless idiots. With rights come responsibilities.

[Tesha]

53. Thank you. I think the sort of action I propose would be appropriate because...

...it would target (please forgive the term) the guilty while
almost-completely avoiding responsible gun owners such
as you.

The one effect it might have on you is a knock-on effect
where, if a lot of these suits were being filed, you might
find impacts to your homeowner's insurance rates. Then
again, insurance policies might simply be written to
contain exclusions from liability for gun accidents (and
may well be so-written today; I've never checked my
policy).

Tesha

[guitar man]

58. It's been 40 years

It's been 40 years since I got my official Red Ryder, carbine action, 200-shot range model bb gun. I didn't shoot my eye out with it and I've owned, carried and shot untold thousands of rounds from many different firearms I've owned over the years. I've never had an accidental discharge or harmed another human being over all those years, as have millions of other responsible gun owners. It's an individual right that comes with individual responsibility. Anybody that acts in a reckless, negligent or criminal manner with a weapon gets no sympathy or support from me. ;)

[Hangingon]

64. We already have such a group - Texas trial lawyers.

We have 3 or 4 television ads every night during the evening news. They are all board certified in everything.

Barratry
(n) Barratry is the judicial proceeding or legal actions on a legally un-sustaining or groundless matters initiated as per the advices or directions of the legal advisors who will be benefited when the clients acts on their advice. Barratry is adopted by attorneys to extract fee from their clients.

[Endangered Specie]

45. his ccw should be revoked

and he should pay her medical bills

[lostnfound]

46. And what about pain and suffering..?

If I have to spend time in a hospital recovering, paying my medical bills doesn't make me 'whole'. The poor woman -- 71 years old.

[right2bfree]

48. His right to own firearms should be taken away since he is a danger to the public, like a drunk nt

[right2bfree]

47. My attorney hates gun-owners, If this had happen to him it would be a big lawsuit. nt

[pipoman]

55. Never trust a lawyer who isn't also a civil libertarian...n/t

[lawodevolution]

56. your attorney is a bigot, no surprise.

[Hangingon]

65. The urge to start lawyer jokes is overwhelming.

[Loki]

59. I posted this on another thread regarding this story.

I was in that restaurant about 3 weeks ago. I live less than 1 mile from it. There are families that go there, and in fact there was a family sitting right behind the booth where this woman was shot. What happens to a gun owner who accidentally through negligence like this shoots and kills an innocent person? Would they be charged with negligent homicide? Or do they just get a slap on the hand like this fool did. Too bad they didn't release this big, tough cowboy's name, I would probably recognize it. Also heard, that the woman suffered more than just a wound in her hip, that it went into her abdomen and could have been much worse. Most restaurants that serve alcohol down here have signs in their windows saying concealed weapons are not allowed. Now this restaurant could possible lose their liquor license and negatively affect their business. I say sue the motherfucker. A two shot derringer with no safety and a round in the chamber - just what every fool needs.

[onehandle]

62. That's terrible. nt

[Straw Man]

66. Zombie threads? This one is almost three months old.

Slow news day?

[S_B_Jackson]

68. Been to that restaurant....

My own words: The restaurant had a no guns allowed sign clearly posted, per the evening newscast.

What they have up is a "gun busters" sign which is legally meaningless, and the TABC sign regarding the prohibition of carrying an unlicensed firearm where alcohol is sold or consumed. There was no Texas 30.06 compliant sign...

This is going to be a civil case in which the derringer-toter, if he's smart, will get his lawyers to pay whatever it costs to settle it before it goes to trial.