Strict Gun Control Will Seem Like War on Drugs

[shadowrider]

Jan. 14 (Bloomberg) -- The atrocity committed last weekend in Tucson, Arizona, by alleged perpetrator Jared Loughner has predictably generated calls for new gun-control laws in the U.S.

Some want bans on the extended-capacity ammunition clips that allowed Loughner to fire more than 30 shots from his Glock semi-automatic pistol without reloading. Others want improved background screening to prevent mentally unstable individuals from purchasing guns.

Would these or other laws prevent incidents like the Arizona shooting? Probably not. And such laws, along with existing gun controls, not only harm responsible gun owners but may even increase violence.

--snip--

Loopholes for Lunatics

Consider, for example, a ban on extended-capacity ammunition clips. If these had been unavailable, Loughner could still have carried out his attack with a 10-bullet clip, and he might have aimed more carefully knowing he had less ammunition. Loughner could have brought several guns, allowing him to continue firing without interruption. Loughner could have purchased extended-ammo clips that were sold before a ban took effect (especially since the prospect of bans stimulates sales in advance of implementation). Or he could have bought a black- market clip, perhaps just by placing a classified advertisement.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-01-13/strict-gun-control-will-seem-like-war-on-drugs-jeffrey-miron.html

[Fumesucker]

1. The drug war is never going away..

Why should gun owners be any different than those who would rather relax with a joint than with a martini?

It's been my experience that many RKBA advocates are fierce drug warriors, I can think of half a dozen I know right off the top of my head.

[guitar man]

2. I wish drug laws would go away

How much of the violence we see in this country is due to the damned war on drugs? If we got rid of a bunch of the drug laws and ended this stupid "war on drugs" I bet we would see a monumental difference in firearm related deaths and violent crime in general.

[Fumesucker]

15. You might as well wish for gravity to go away, that's about as likely as the drug war ending..

There is far too much bureaucratic inertia, too much money, too much power that go along with the drug war. There are extremely powerful forces on both sides of the law who stand to lose too much if drugs are ever legalized.

[jody]

9. I know several hundred competitive shooters, all pro-RKBA, who want to legalize drugs. n/t

[Fumesucker]

14. I can only speak to my own experiences..

And those experiences show me that the more someone is pro RKBA the more likely they are to be pro war on drugs.

I don't doubt that there are some pro RKBA types who are against the drug war but I honestly can't think of a single one I know. Now that may be because so many of the people (particularly pro RKBA types) I know are fundie Christians due to where I live but that's what I've seen.

[YllwFvr]

10. im not a smoker

thats my choice, but alcohol is far more dangerous to your health than a joint. Heroine and meth... sure ban em. But weed? I dont get it... Even if they grew it like tobacco and sold it in packs and taxed the crap out of it, it would be better than now. So many people in jail for a joint or some nonsense. Sure nail the dealers if they are bypassing the sale of it in stores. But I prefer to think of myself as a rights advocate, not a gun advocate. Im not limited to that narrow topic ;).

BTW why pick a martini? Do you actually drink those terrible things? yech!

[Katya Mullethov]

12. Another war is the answer ?

In your estimation , how long before the war on poverty will need to go hot ?

[Fumesucker]

16. In the grand context of things what's one more war, really?

They can come search my home looking for guns, they already fly fucking helicopters over looking for places that are "too warm" and they monitor everyone's power bills.

[Katya Mullethov]

17. You seem so ready to assume the position

I will assure that the feeling is neither mutual nor widespread .

There is some hope that LED technology might make helicopters obsolete soon . But they will keep flying . You can confiscate every last gun . And they will keep looking . And as surely as the wind blows there will be 12 of them standing around while two actually toss your stuff .

[Fumesucker]

18. Show me the national politician that's against the drug war..

The only two I know of are both considered crazy by Democrats and Republicans alike, Kookinich and Paultard. There's Jesse Ventura but he's not really a politician any more and besides he's considered a whack job too.

So you're going to assume the damn position whether you like it or not, the politicians have spoken with essentially one voice.

[Hoyt]

3. A smaller magazine/clip might have made him feel less omnipotent too.

I think we forget how readily available guns are and how that enables folks to carry out these massacres. Loughner, although clearly sick, bought his gun about 1.5 months before this. By law, he could walk around in Arizona with it tucked down his pants or strapped openly on his leg with his high capacity clip sticking out and there was not a thing the police could do.

And the laws could be written to outlaw future manufacturing and such that the magazines cannot be carried in public, but are relegated to home caressing (for those that need that). After a period of years, they would become much less common. Something we need to work on.

In any event, I think someone as sick as Loughner might have been thwarted by some simple obstacles in his path. Only Arizona -- and a number of other states -- just make it too easy on folks like this.

[shadowrider]

4. You speak with clarity through 20/20 hindsight. My ex-wife was the same way

However, per the article:

The sad reality is that every society has a few people whose mental instabilities cause serious harm to others. This is tragic, but it doesn’t justify ineffective and possibly counter- productive attempts to prevent such harm.

[Hoyt]

5. You think it is counter-productive, I don't. Maybe the X was right, mine was.

[guitar man]

6. You know, in this case

With everybody standing out there in front of that store like that, if he couldn't have gotten hold of a gun he could have mowed a bunch of people down with a Ford F-150 or something like that. I know there are a bunch of people that don't want to hear it ,but the biggest mass murder in US history was carried out by flying airliners into buildings. Tim Mc Veigh used a truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel in OKC.

The fact of the matter is, we can write all the laws on paper we want and that paper will never stop the deranged and determined. All we can do is set penalties, try and punish those that break those laws after the fact. Killing pre-dates firearms by millenia and if we could somehow get rid of every gun in the country, killing would still go on. Just a sad but true fact of life. If somebody really doesn't care about the consequences,they are going to commit the crime.

[Hoyt]

7. Maye lax laws made it easy for him. In any event, who wants cowboys packing in public?

By the way, Timmy McVeigh was another gun nut. Sounds like the controls should be tightened to me, just like drunk driving.

[Katya Mullethov]

8. Possible new trend at the Folsom Street Fair ?

Just tossing these out there .

[one-eyed fat man]

13. Weather Underground and BLA

Is it your your contention that only "gun nuts" are capable of such tawdry behavior?

How about Susan Rosenberg, Bill Ayers and other '60's American Leftist Radicals? "Millionaire Marxists," the spoiled and pampered off spring of successful upper and upper middle-class families wasting their parents' money, cutting college classes, spouting slogans, and fancying themselves downtrodden proletariat while wearing designer jeans made in some Third World sweatshop.

Since they tended to eschew military service and manual labor they blew themselves up almost as often as they blew up the capitalistic lackey dogs they targeted with bombs that would have been better built if they had taken a high school shop class. But they did bomb and murder. Only that one robbery did they stoop so low as to use guns to murder two police officers and a Brink's guard. Do gun free killers rate better?

The Haymarket Police Memorial bombing October 7, 1969

Park Place Police Station bombing, February 1970

New York City, Judge Murtagh's home firebombed, February 1970

Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, March 1970 (Aw too bad, the bomb they were building to bomb a dance at the Fort Dix NCO club exploded prematurely. Do the dead bodies of mechanically inept leftists count?)

Timothy Leary prison break, September 1970

The bombing of the United States Capitol on March 1, 1971.

The bombing of the Pentagon on May 19, 1972.

The January 29, 1975 bombing of the United States Department of State Building.

Plot to Bomb Office of California State Senator John Briggs (1977)

Brinks robbery (1981)

Timothy McVeigh was more effective partly due to his (mis)use of his military training and experience to build a competent bombs. The explosives in the truck were arranged like a shaped charge to direct more of the explosive force toward the target.

[guitar man]

19. Just because somebody packs

That doesn't make them a "cowboy". One night 25 years ago when I wasn't packing, I got shot by a criminal that was. Laws or no laws you cam bet they are going to be packing...

[YllwFvr]

11. you mean MOST states

its easy. The states with restrictions are few, and growing fewer. So a question. My 17 round mag is flush with the bottom of my gun. Its factory, comes that way. It would fit in the gun he used, but would stick out the bottom. You make it sound like a mag that extends beyond the grip is wrong.

The problem you have is you view it as an obstacle in the path of people like loughner. Gun owners, like myself, see that as an obstacle in our path as well. Punishing us for something someone else did. Where do you draw the line. Many would consider my standard magazine to be high cap, and by your suggestion, keep me from carrying it out my door. Im working at it from the opposite direction myself. You think it should be less common, Im actively trying to make it more common. My sides doing very well too.