Police: Homeowner fired at intruders who broke into home-appears justified

[RamboLiberal]

(Las Vegas Metro) Police said a man and woman were inside the house when three men aggressively started to ring the doorbell. The homeowner looked through the door's peephole and didn't recognize the men, so he retrieved his gun, police said.

The men then broke into the house through the door, prompting the homeowner to fire. One intruder was shot in the leg and the other two men ran from the house in opposite directions, police said.

Police said the shooting appeared to be justified, adding that the homeowner stayed in his home and didn't pursue the other two men as they ran away.

Metro spokesman Jay Rivera said it's not uncommon for burglaries to occur during the daytime because suspects assume people are at work.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/nov/18/police-homeowner-fired-intruders-who-broke-home/

[slackmaster]

1. Sounds like the guy needs some range time

He should have been able to hit at least two of them, and closer to the center of mass.

Shooting under pressure is much harder than shooting at paper targets, but any practice helps.

[pnwmom]

3. How do you know he was aiming for the center of mass?

Or that he wanted to shoot all three? I would think getting them out of your house would be enough.

[slackmaster]

4. I was trained to always aim for center of mass, and aim/shoot at multiple targets one at a time

Ideally double-tapping them in as rapid a sequence as you can maintain with accuracy.

I figure if he wasn't doing that, he hasn't been properly trained. I'm not a big fan of warning shots, shooting for limbs, shooting peoples' hats off, etc.

[pnwmom]

5. Some people might have a different policy.

I'd just like them to get away as fast as possible. And I wouldn't be shooting to kill unless they had weapons.

[slackmaster]

6. I was trained never to shoot to kill because that can lead to a charge of murder if the threat dies

You shoot to stop a threat. The most effective way to do that is usually to shoot for the center of mass until the threat ceases.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. He may have missed low with the first shot.

It can happen. Dark, and adrenaline cause all sorts of problems. 'Leg' to the newspaper could actually be 'hip' in reality, as well.

In any case, if the intruders immediately signaled retreat, homeowner did the right thing holding further fire.

[spin]

8. If someone forcibly breaks into your home while you are inside ..

in Florida you have the right to use lethal force.

First, it is now very easy to invoke the "castle" doctrine in Florida.

Under the old law, a person who killed someone in their home had the burden of proof to show that they were in fear for their safety. Now, all a person has to do is establish that the person they killed was "unlawfully" and "forcibly" entering their home when they shot the victim.

That is because the new creates a presumption that anyone who forcibly and illegally enters a home is intent on threatening the lives of the people within. And, at least according to a report written for the Judiciary Committee of the Florida Senate, that presumption is conclusive; it cannot be rebutted with contrary evidence.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/sebok/20050502.html

The last thing I would ever want to do is shoot someone. However, if three people break my door down and I have my family to worry about I intend to do my best to stop their attack. If I have a firearm, I will shoot for center body mass as I was trained. Trying to play Roy Rogers may result in my being overcome and my family placed in significant risk.

If alone in the house and at a range of more than 20 feet I might draw down on them and politely ask them to leave. If they don't immediately comply or rush me, I will shoot.

By the way, you never shoot to kill. You shoot to stop. You chances of stopping an attack are higher if you aim for center body mass. Much also depends on the weapon you are using. A large caliber handgun may not kill a person unless you hit a vital organ. Many people have survived being shot multiple times with a .45 automatic.

Possibly the most lethal home defense firearm you might chose is a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buck. There are a lot of misconceptions about how you just have to point a shotgun in the general direction of your target and you will hit it. It's easy to miss with a shotgun a close range, so again it's wise to shoot for the center of mass.

Shotgun myths and misconceptions

Myth #1: shotguns are an area weapon. Many people seem to have the idea that shotguns fire a cloud of pellets, making precise aiming of a shotgun unnecessary. These people also tend to believe that a shotgun can be fired effectively from the hip, as seen in movies. In reality, while one of the benefits of a shotgun is the ability to fire multiple projectiles in a spread pattern, shotgun shells produce fairly tight groups. Load selection, choke type (discussed below) and barrel length are all variables in this equation. But for illustration, real-world tests of popular buckshot loads consistently produce patterns averaging 10" in diameter at 15 yards. These patterns are even smaller in diameter at the closer ranges found in most defensive scenarios.
http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/shotgunpace.htm

I personally prefer a coach gun such as this Stoeger for self defense. I also believe in having a revolver with me as a backup (if I have time).



edited for typo

[proteus_lives]

11. Then you're not doing it right.

[RamboLiberal]

7. When the shit hits the fan

Most of us would not be that cool and calm to have that fine an aim. Hell it might be nice if you even saw the front sight. If you read about police or civilians talking about the aftermath of being involved in a shooting many don't even remember seeing the front sight or even how many shots they fired or even hearing the shots.

[howaboutme]

2. Observations

We live in an increasingly dangerous world and some neighborhoods are worse than others, but none are safe.

1 - Have a peep hole on all doors.
2 - Having a firearm that is accessible and loaded can save your life (keep it safe if kids around)
3 - Be prepared for a home invasion if you fail to answer your door. Rather than feigning absence a better strategy might be to yell through the door "what do you want?". They might leave if they were looking for a vacant house.
4 - Don't open the door for multiple strangers and questionably open it for one.

[safeinOhio]

9. For a few dollars

you can replace the short screws in your hinges and strikers with 3X8 screws, along with a 3 inch dead bolt, making it harder to kick in. Lowe's has "security system" stickers you can also put up to make the bad guys think an alarm will go off and the police will be on their way. I also have a motion activated porch light that helps also. I have guns for protection and do everything I can to never have to use them on another human being. I talked to an ex-marine the other day that still has nightmares about the German that he shot and kill almost 70 years ago. While you all sound real tuff, trust me, you do not want all the hassle of killing some one when a small investment in security could prevent it. But then, I don't think of myself as some tuff guy.

[spin]

10. Why do you say that the pro-RKBA people "sound real tuff" ?

Many of us agree with you on not wanting to shoot another person.

For example in post #8 in this thread, I said "The last thing I would ever want to do is shoot someone. However, if three people break my door down and I have my family to worry about I intend to do my best to stop their attack. ... If alone in the house and at a range of more than 20 feet I might draw down on them and politely ask them to leave. If they don't immediately comply or rush me, I will shoot."

I have read similar posts from many pro-RKBA posters in the past. Many of of are very familiar with topics involving firearms and are well aware of the psychological after effect of shooting. Cops often experience this.

AFTER THE GUN GOES OFF
by Keith Bettinger

***snip***

Post Shooting Trauma is the internalization of stress following a shooting. (1) It is a combination of stress, fear, confusion and anxiety. It usually sets in after your moral beliefs and reality come in conflict.

There are many symptoms of Post Shooting Trauma, and a person suffering from it can suffer any one, any combination, or all of the following symptoms.

The first is sleep pattern disturbances. Either insomnia or nightmares. Insomnia is simply the inability to relax and sleep following the shooting.

***snip***

The dreams can be a reliving of the incident, night after night. Or, it can be a dream of being involved in another shooting, and being either wounded or killed. Some officer have dreamed that the person they killed was standing at the foot of their bed. Some admit to being so frightened by this experience they have jumped up in a sweat, screaming in fear.

***snip***

80% of officers involved in shootings have nightmares related to their incident. 10% have a variation dream in which they dream of being in different shooting incidents. Those that dream of being killed are probably experiencing some form of guilt, whether imagined or real.

However, there is a benefit to having these nightmares. According to Dr. Pasquale Carone of South Oaks Hospital in Amityville, New York, dreams are a way of working out a solution to a problem. Once the solution is reached, the nightmares will usually stop.
http://www.tearsofacop.com/police/articles/aftergun.html

Melting Down But Still in Charge

Web sites that describe “police trauma syndrome” note that shooters can experience sound and time distortions during and after the critical incident, making it hard to describe accurately what happened, and sometimes even hallucinations after the fact, or a feeling of being haunted, though this is more common in situations where the shooter has been under threat himself or killed someone. Some develop “John Wayne syndrome” after the fact, taking excessive risks in a self-destructive way, while others are subject to self-doubt, compulsions, alcoholism, overeating, and gambling. Their job performance and family relationships can deteriorate, and they can fall prey to episodes of depression and helplessness, with occasional suicidal thoughts.

Non-police shooters oftentimes share similar symptoms that police, who are authorized to shoot, experience less often: “Mark of Cain” syndrome, in which shooters come to see themselves as tainted or otherwise permanently marked, especially if the shooting received widespread publicity.
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=melting_down_but_still_in_charge

Your advice on securing your home is always good and definitely could save you from a home invasion. Being prepared for a situation is always good but avoiding it is better.

[safeinOhio]

12. You do have thoughtful post

and are reasonable compared to others. There are those here that are not so much. I was referring to those shoot first because it is legal types that post here.

[Kennah]

15. The shoot first ideology ...

... is neither widely believed nor gleefully practiced.

I've done a modest amount of advanced firearms training with people who go fast (Cathy Schlegel, Marty and Gila Hayes, Mas Ayoob, and the late Jim Cirillo). Among the things I've learned is that the faster you go the less inclined one is to shoot first.

There was one Asshat in my FAS-2 Class, now http://www.firearmsacademy.com/DefHdgn.htm">Defensive Handgun, who in the course of learning the use of verbal challenging pontificated how he didn't see any conditions under which he would use it--implying he'd shoot first always and only. I resisted the urge to speak unkind things, but my thoughts included "Don't drop the soap."

There is a story Mas Ayoob has related in which an LFI student didn't see the need or merit to verbally challenge, ever, but Mas prevailed upon the student to just fucking do it for entertainment purposes. The student later experienced a near shooting incident in which he did verbally challenge, rather than shoot, and he was spared killing his brother in law who had a key to the house.

People who know what they are doing choose other avenues if at all possible. However, if they have to shoot, they'll shoot the shit out of whatever needs to be shot.

[safeinOhio]

18. That is pretty much it.

Some here celebrate any news article that relates a "legal" shooting. I look at each one in another way. How could it have been avoided? In most cases it could. 1. Some form of cheap home security would have made the difference. 2. Avoiding dangerous situations to begin with.
I've had several classes and one advanced in handgun self defense. Everyone of them have made a big point of avoiding any kind of confrontation in the first place. In one class a student was asking about the dangerous areas he goes in the evenings. The instructor asked why would he ever go anyplace that he felt he "needed" to be armed. That more than makes sense to me. Others have protested my home security ideas as expensive. The same ones who regularly practice at the range will spend way more on ammo in a few trips than most security ideas will ever cost. Just google "low cost home security".

[oneshooter]

13. There is a problem with this, can you find it?

"I talked to an ex-marine the other day that still has nightmares about the German that he shot and kill almost 70 years ago."

The Marine Corp never fought in Europe. They were too busy in the Pacific.

Therefore I call BULL on this one.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Glassunion]

14. +1. Unless his name was Masaharu Miyagibürger.

Could also be a typo...

[AtheistCrusader]

17. Whut

http://marinesmagazine.dodlive.mil/2009/12/14/wwii-marines-in-europe/

[Leftist Agitator]

20. First of all, see reply #17...

Second, learn history more comprehensively. U.S. Marines fought in N. Africa against Rommel as well.

[safeinOhio]

21. My bad, called his daughter

and learned he was Army Recon, not marines.

[oneshooter]

22. Fixed it for ya " not Marines " n/t

[aikoaiko]

19. Most people take reasonable measures to prevent and avoid home invasions -- just like you

But almost no one does "everything they can".

[Kennah]

23. I'll install moats and alligators ...

... when I have Renoirs to protect.