Man shoots daughter, 12, while cleaning gun

[onehandle]

A 12-year-old girl was shot by her father Tuesday evening as he reassembled a handgun he recently purchased and thought was unloaded.

A bullet grazed one of the girl’s wrists and then hit her thigh, Macomb County Sheriff’s Capt. Anthony Wickersham said. The 40-year-old father took his daughter to a local hospital where she was treated and released, Wickersham said.

The incident happened about 8:15 p.m. on Lauren Drive in Macomb Township, Wickersham said. A round was in the gun’s chamber, but the dad apparently didn’t realize the gun had a bullet in it, Wickersham said.

The dad drove his daughter to an area hospital for help and hospital staff contacted the sheriff’s office, Wickersham said results of an investigation will be sent to Macomb County prosecutors for a decision on seeking charges, if any, against the dad, Wickersham said.

http://detnews.com/article/20101006/METRO03/10060397/1014/rss03

[Glassunion]

1. .

http://articles.mcall.com/2010-10-05/news/mc-allentown-child-crash-plea-20101005_1_myesha-latonja-wilson-crash-allentown-police

[rfranklin]

2. Stupid, careless people are everywhere but...

stupid, careless people with guns are the most dangerous.

[TheWraith]

3. Actually no.

Stupid careless people with cars are the most dangerous. Gun accidents kill a few hundred people a year in the US. Car accidents kill tens of thousands.

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Popcorn time

:popcorn:

[Fumesucker]

5. + A very large number..

[SteveM]

14. So, there's a death and you're settling in for a little fun? Nice.

[TheCowsCameHome]

21. Death? What death?

Maybe you should re-read the original post and not go off half-cocked.

And the "cars vs. guns" is soooooo lame.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

27. Ironic statement for this thread... "half cocked"

the only reason the daughter died in the OP was carelessness.
the only reason something goes off half-cocked is carelessness.

"Going off half-cocked" originates from the 18th/19th century where a failure of the safe mechanism occurred. On a firearm with only a half-cock safety mechanism, the safe practice is to leave the chamber unloaded or leave once cylinder chamber empty (to rest the hammer over).

[Glassunion]

32. I think you missed their point

No one died. The girl in the OP was treated and released.

[Glassunion]

8. And

Injured 2.2million in 2009. 33,000+ killed.

Good news is that as automobile technology and safety improves, the injury and mortality rate is declining.

[lawodevolution]

12. But not as fast as gun accident rate is declining

[russ1943]

31. Fatalities of unintentional shootings are less than 5% of all unintentional shootings.

Recent years Unintentional firearm gunshot non fatal injuries according to latest (2008) figures available from WISQARS have been...

.......... RISING, ...........not declining.

Both the rate and the number of victims from 2006 to 2007 and again from 2007 to 2008 increased. Even if non fatal & fatal are combined for the latest figures available 2007, the combined total number of unintentional firearm victims from 2006 to 2007 INCREASED.
Reputable sources such as WISQARS clearly show that fatal shootings represent only about 5% of all unintentional firearm gunshot victims making your oft posted unsourced chart covering fatality rates over a hundred years, both a distortion and largely irrelevant to the subject under discussion.

[Pavulon]

33. link to data please. (nt)

[russ1943]

35. WISQARS

Sorry, I assumed most readers, certainly most posters would be aware of WISQARS. WISQARS (Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System) is an interactive database system that provides customized reports of injury-related data. http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html
Fatal injury data and Nonfatal injury data each has its own report generating options that allows anyone to select the appropriate data. For example on the Nonfatal Injury report page I entered/selected under options; Unintentional, firearm, the full range of years available 2001 to 2008 then I selected in the last option (Sort by category) Year. Clicked on submit request & the report generated is each years total for the eight years from 2001 thru 2008. Also the population, the crude and age adjusted rates.
Then I went back and deleted the sort by year option, clicked on submit request, and the report generated the total of 133,750. (just to check my math).
Doing the same thing at the very similar fatal report type query provides the numerator necessary to determine percentages.
If this does not satisfy your request, please let me know.

[Pavulon]

51. Thats cool, you can see that dog bites cause over 20 times more injuries than firearms(nt)

[Euromutt]

37. Well, if you look at lawodevolution's graph you may note...

...that the unintentional firearm death rate has periodically shown increases as well; still, the overall trend is downward. While it is true that the most recent data show an increase in non-fatal unintentional shootings, three years' data do not a trend make. We can see in WISQARS that the numbers for 2008 are not as high as those for 2001 or 2003, both in absolute and relative terms.

In that regard, it's interesting to compare a figure I got from an article published in the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), "Surveillance for Fatal and Nonfatal Firearm-Related Injuries -- United States, 1993-1998" by Gotsch et al. (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5002a1.htm)



Isn't it interesting how the fatal and non-fatal rates run parallel (granted that the non-fatal rate is an order of magnitude greater)? It's also remarkable how the rates spike every fourth quarter; I'm guessing that would be because of deer season, but I could be wrong.

But what's really germane to this topic are the rates of nonfatal unintentional firearm injuries, and the plotted trend thereof. It comes out a bit lower than the crude rates recorded by WISQARS in the years 2001-2008, indicating an increase between 1998 and 2001. But those latter figures are still way lower than where the trend line is coming from. At the start of 1993, the trend line is close to 8/100,000; from 2001-2008, the highest crude rate was 6.53, and the crude rate for 2008 was 5.66. So it's fair to say that from 1993 to 2008, the rate of unintentional nonfatal firearms injuries has shown an overall decline.

A basic rule of scientific honesty is that you present as much data as you can acquire; when you take a few data points out of a larger series and say "this proves my point," you're cherry-picking, and that's scientifically dishonest.

[lawodevolution]

39. The trends of severity of gun accidents is more important than the overall number unless you can

Break down the types of injuries. From the raw data I have no idea how many of those reported gun accidents involve someone dropping a gun on their foot and breaking a toe, so we will stick with the fatality rate as a good indication of the rate of significant gun accidents.

[russ1943]

47. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I do believe you “have no idea how many of those reported accidents involve someone dropping a gun on their foot and breaking a toe………” The definition used by WISQARS to be considered an Unintentional Firearm Gunshot Nonfatal Injury, reads in part; “A penetrating force injury resulting from a powder-charged gun.” FYI the data included is reported by US hospital emergency departments. Their term “firearm” does not include Unintentional BB/Pellet Gunshot Nonfatal Injuries, which if added together (WISQARS 2008) would bring the total unintentional gunshot non fatal injuries to over 30,000 per year.

[lawodevolution]

52. So you think accident rate is more important than death rate from accidents

Gun control proponents seem to feel the reported murder rate in the UK is more important than the violent crime rate which is highest in Europe and higher than south Africa

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

So if you think that the gun accident rate is more important than the rate of death from gun accidents it seems you should also concede that the UK (most strict gun laws in Europe) has a rate of violence that is out of control and that gun ban thing seems to be helping them out as much as the gun ban in Juarez Mexico, Nigeria, Jamaica or Russia.

[rfranklin]

11. Perhaps but what's the ratio of time spent driving to...

time spent handling guns. I probably spend a thousand-fold more time behind the wheel than I do with my Ruger SR9.

[lawodevolution]

13. You spend many more hours of the day in the house with your gun

It seems like gun control supporters think a gun is dangerous simply by being in a home, so the hours spent in the house where the gun is will be many times larger than the amount of time spent inside of your car where you also may have a gun.

[rfranklin]

50. But I was comparing apples to apples... time actually spent...

with a weapon in my hand versus a steering wheel in my hand.

[SteveM]

15. Where does your Ruger SR9 sleep at night?

[rfranklin]

49. Not in my hand...

otherwise I probably would have shot my wife or myself by now.

[Glassunion]

18. Hmm...

I usually wear my firearm all day. I don't drive all day.

[Butch350]

38. Then don't clean your gun while your driving then. OK!

[maxsolomon]

6. regulate better, militia members!

uez thu brainz whut gawd giv yu!

[Bold Lib]

36. I'd love too. Unfortunately I cannot get a current issue M-4 do to the

Hughes amendment banning new civilian machine guns. Although, with the Heller decision specifically naming the M-16 as being especially suited to militia duty I am hopeful that we will see a successful challenge to that law.

Oh, you did know that "regulated" in the context of the 2A means armed with like and common arms right?

[maxsolomon]

42. that context is not hermetically sealed from all other contexts:

http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."

1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."

1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

[Bold Lib]

43. Your attempt to confuse the issue with an "info dump" does not do anything to

change the context in the 2A. You may not WANT it to mean what it clearly does, but that does not change it. You do seem to like doing research though so I'll point you to the Federalist Papers to research what the 2A is about. Have fun.

edit to add: If you do not wish to start from scratch on the research you can simply look at the footnotes in the recent Heller decision.

[maxsolomon]

46. that is an info dump? i'd hate to see what you consider 'see spot run'.

i'm not trying to confuse jack - you say it means that militia member's guns should work well. fine.

this jackass' gun didn't work well. hence my comment. enjoy stroking your common M-4.

[friendly_iconoclast]

48. -1. You lot do love your sexual metaphors for guns, don't you? n/t

[sakabatou]

WTF was that guy doing, leaning a loaded gun?

[rfranklin]

10. Happens more often than you might imagine...

Easy to leave one in the chamber unless you check and double check.

[sakabatou]

17. More reason to practice gun safety

[Glassunion]

19. How hard is it?

Gun is loaded

Step #1: Remove the magazine
Gun is still loaded

Step #2: Clear the chamber
Gun is still loaded

Step #3: Double Check the chamber and insure it is empty
Gun is still loaded

Step #4: Point in a safe direction
Gun is still loaded

Step #5: Disasemble for cleaning
Gun is still loaded

No matter what, the gun is ALWAYS loaded and should be treated as such.

[shadowrider]

22. I have a stupid question

How on earth can the man disassemble his weapon, clean it and NOT notice a cartridge? Then have it go off as it was being REassembled?

Any ideas?

[Glassunion]

23. Magic bullet theory?

[Euromutt]

25. Yeah, I was wondering about that as well

I can only surmise that he had the slide locked back, inserted a loaded magazine, and then let the slide return to battery not realizing that that would chamber a round.

[Pavulon]

28. Inserted the magazine during assembly and racked the slide, or he is lying

either way he is a fucking moron.

[jeepnstein]

41. I'm thinking he's lying.

It's all too common for someone to blame the firearm after an unintended discharge. I don't call them accidental. In this case it was more of a negligent discharge.

There's no way on Earth he disassembled the weapon withe a chambered round and then reassembled it without noticing. It just couldn't happen unless he was blind drunk and stupid, in which case he's still a moron.

The rule is simple. Every gun is loaded and ready to destroy whatever you are covering with the muzzle. I've known far more people who were shot with an "unloaded" gun than were the victims of an "accident". And I've never seen a weapon fire on it's own. So if it goes "bang" someone made it happen. You own that bullet so make sure it doesn't go somewhere you'll regret. Every gun is loaded.

[slackmaster]

7. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

I can teach someone how to safely unload five or six common types of firearms in about 15 minutes.

[spin]

44. +1000 (n/t)

[liberal N proud]

9. Why was he cleaning a gun around his kids?

Loaded no less!

[SteveM]

16. This guy screwed up, but when I was learning about arms...

my Dad certainly cleaned the guns around us so that we would learn how to do it safely.

[benEzra]

24. I teach my kids how to responsibly and safely coexist with guns in the home...

and that necessarily involves having the kids involved to a degree on those occasions they are cleaned. (Which isn't that often; modern guns don't have to be cleaned every time they are fired.)

I do *not*, however, point guns in unsafe directions and pull the trigger, whether I think the gun is "loaded" or "unloaded". One of the fundamental rules of gun safety is that you treat a gun as if it is always loaded, and that you never, ever point the muzzle recklessly.

[spin]

45. I always cleaned my handguns in the living room after shooting ...

often my daughter was in the room and occasionally friends would stop by.

I've never had an accidental discharge. That doesn't mean that I never will. There are two types of shooters, those who have never had an accidental discharge and those who will.

[proteus_lives]

20. Ban daughters. It's the only way we'll be safe.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

26. Carelessness Kills. Thanks for the reminder.

n/t

[Pavulon]

29. Man runs over his own child while backing out of driveway..

stupid takes many forms.

[lawodevolution]

30. I call BS

If he had put a loaded magazine in the gun after reassembling it and then he chambered a round without knowing it when he closed the slide then technically the gun was no longer in the process of being cleaned when it went off and I would attribute probable gun ignorance due to a lack of our education system teaching gun safety as being the problem. My father taught me that if you put a loaded magazine in the gun and then close the slide that it loads a round and after having been a shooter for many years it has become common sense. I have met people who did not know this at the range and I always take the time to teach them if they are friendly, because as a gun owner and pro-RKBA I have not only a vested interest in lowering violent crime but also gun related accidents, unlike the Brady campaign and VPC who need gun accidents in order to justify their employment and bring in money so they can have an income.

[krispos42]

34. I bet he tried to ease the hammer down on a loaded chamber and slipped

Dumbass. Live ammo shouldn't even be on the table while you're figuring out how your new gun works. Dry fire it or use snap caps. Try all the controls in all possible combinations. It's not rocket science!

[lawodevolution]

40. For the rest of her life

She will be reminding her father that he shot her when she wants something