Revised: The El Paso (tx) miracle vs New York City surge in violent crime and murder

[lawodevolution]

El paso had 12 murders in 2009, spread among 615,000 people that adds up to 1.95 murders /100,000

So far in the first 6 months of 2010 El Paso had 1 (that's right ONE) murder

Murders down 83% in El Paso:
http://www.kvia.com/news/24341663/detail.html

Many are calling this the El Paso Miracle: http://reason.com/archives/2009/07/06/the-el-paso-miracle

New York city had a murder rate of about 5.5 per 100,000 in 2009. but the real shame for MAIG is that New York's murder rate is up over 20% in 2010.

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/nyc-murder-rate-up-20-percent-so-far-in-2010/19417962

[lawodevolution]

1. It's still racist for the...

US government to apparently support gun rights in the USA (like the current trends even at federal level) and yet to also support a gun ban in Mexico.

[divideandconquer]

2. Yet there is surge in gun sales because of a black president

[RSillsbee]

3. A black president or a President w/ a strong pro gun control history?

How do you account for all the progressives that voted for Mr. Obama and still bought guns?

[Pavulon]

4. Prove that with a link. From a reputable source

please provide a coherent position on how you would modify current gun law to make crime rates drop (more than they already are)

[Callisto32]

5. There IS no proof.

That is the beauty of "racist." It doesn't even have to make sense, if you accuse the other side of it, you automatically win. At least, that is how it works in the minds of some. Take the original version of this OP. I couldn't figure out what was so racist about pointing out that Mexicans can handle owning guns without killing one another.

First, it isn't "race" language it is alienage language. Second, if anything it was anti-racist(alienage-ist?) language indicating that violence in Mexico is more of a symptom of some other phenomena, as opposed to a "well, you just can't trust THOSE PEOPLE" thing.

Oh well. I am used to it, because when you disagree with American liberals (which I often do), and the person you are talking with lacks debate skills (many people on all sides of an issue do) you will probably be told you are either 1. A racist/sexist/homophobe or the like OR 2. You hate poor people/kids et cetera OR 3. Both.

[divideandconquer]

8. Can't link to white supremacist sites on DU

But you knew that

[Callisto32]

9. Note I was talking about the OP in the old post,....

...what the poster wrote, not what the article said. And, the links were to ABC news, AOL news, and Reason magazine.

Exactly WHICH of those is white supremacist? You are reaching, but you knew that.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. "New York City is a beacon of hope for lowering murder through tough gun laws"

ISTR someone saying this in the Gungeon recently. Let me try and remember which poster it was....

[SteveM]

13. Are you complaining?

[Glassunion]

15. So you are saying that racists are solely responsible for the surge in firearm sales?

BS.

[benEzra]

6. And a white VP who was a leader in the DLC gun control movement for a while...

though he has thankfully backed off from that.

And BTW, our President has been the one calming fears about a new ban, by quietly urging the mostly white proponents of banning the most popular civilian guns in America to STFU.

[lawodevolution]

7. A lot of the people buying guns were worried

About crime rates increasing from unemployment and the recession.

[spin]

11. The same thing would have happened if Hillary would have run and won ...

Democrats have a long history of favoring draconian gun control. When gun owners realized that Democrats owned the Presidency and both houses of Congress after the last election, they decided to buy firearms before they became illegal.

The gun control movement peaked years ago and currently some Democrats get high ratings from the NRA. But once a political party has a reputation for supporting one side of an issue, it takes years and years before people change their view of the party's position. Most gun owners firmly believe that most Democrats are opposed to RKBA.

Obviously if the votes would have existed to pass extreme gun control, it would have been seriously considered.

For Democrats, Gun Control Fades From Agenda
July 22, 2009 5:56 PM

A decade ago, the calculus was simple: Those who wanted greater gun control aligned with the Democrats. And those who wanted fewer restrictions on guns turned to the Republicans.

No longer.

Though an amendment to mandate that states recognize concealed weapons permits issued by other states, effectively allowing people to carry concealed weapons across state lines, narrowly failed on Wednesday, it garnered 58 votes in the Democrat-dominated Senate. (It needed 60 votes to overcome a filibuster.)

On Tuesday, New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg called the amendment, sponsored by South Dakota Republican John Thune, "about as anti-police, pro-gun trafficker piece of legislation that has ever come before the United States Senate."

Among those who backed the amendment was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, who was joined by Southern and Midwestern Democrats in voting yes. Other Democrats who backed the amendment included Virginia Sens. Jim Webb and Mark Warner, Montana Sens. Jon Tester and Max Baucus and Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh. The New York Times has a full breakdown here.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5181043-503544.html

[SteveM]

12. 5CR/3RD? No proof provided, but then you don't deal with such. nt

[Euromutt]

14. Are you suggesting that if Hillary Clinton had won, there would have been no "surge in gun sales"?

Personally, I'm inclined to say it has a lot more to do with a Democratic president (with a stated desire to reinstate the ban on so-called "assault weapons") being elected at a time when the Democrats also controlled both houses of Congress, and in a year in which HB 1022 had been introduced by Carolyn McCarthy, proposing a permanent and more stringent AWB.

If the president we had right now were a white male, but also a Democrat, we'd have seen much the same thing.

[X_Digger]

16. Hell, I'd say the run on guns would have been worse w/ Hillary..

.. her connection to Bill's 1994 AWB would have been worse than a Senator from Illinois with a bad record for the second amendment.