Dallas Officer Accidentally Shoots Rookie Officer

[Nomorehannity]

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-beat/Dallas-Officer-Accidentally-Shoots-Officer-98612304.html

I am so curious to see how the gun haters/government worshipers will treat this story. I expect them to squirm in their seats. They won't imply that guns should be banned and that the 2nd amendment caused this because we're talking about government agents here (the only ones they say can be trusted with guns).

[Fumesucker]

1. Welcome to DU.

I hope you enjoy your stay.

[Nomorehannity]

2. Thanks

[ingac70]

3. Government worshippers?

Enjoy your stay.....

[cowman]

4. Oh don't worry

the anti gun posters will find a way to blame the gun and not the idiot who was careless.

[KansasVoter]

7. And the gun loving crowd will try to say more guns will stop this stuff!

[cowman]

9. Respectfully

who has said that and how would more guns have stopped a veteran cop from accidently shooting a rookie?

[KansasVoter]

14. And the same to you.....

Who here thinks the gun caused the accident and not the person using it? We might argue that making guns more accessible causes more accidents but I don't think any anti-gun person here thinks guns control themselves! My reply was as off the cuff as yours.

7 weeks left?? Or less?

[cowman]

18. 3 weeks of duty time

and 1 month of vacation time, which translates into 7 days and a wake up.
Going to miss it but 35 years is enough.
Wife retires from American Medical Response in 3 months.
Did you get my PM?

[Statistical]

10. Nope. Just you (as usual).

Don't you get tired of "defeating" your own false claim over and over and over?

[KansasVoter]

13. I notice you made up the burglary rate for the UK at 300% of ours. Revisit those numbers!!!

And post your source!

[Statistical]

15. I did; you ignored it. My source is the UK govt. Actually their robbery rate is 423%+ of the US.

The RDS Crime in England and Wales 2007/2008 report
http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/crimeew0708.html

The chart of crime rates for 2007/2008 can be found here:
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708chap2.xls
Second tab has rates per 10K persons. Most countries (including US) show data in rate per 100K persons".

UK 2007/2008 (per RDS)
Burglary: 3090 per 100K (423% of US)
Wounding (Aggravated Assault): 1070 per 100K (389% of US)
Robbery: 710 per 100K (490% of US)
Total Violent Crime: 4930 per 100K (1084% of US)

US 2008 (per FBI)
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_01.html
Burglary: 730 per 100K
Wounding (Aggravated Assault): 275 per 100K
Robbery: 145 per 100K
Total Violent Crime: 455 per 100K

Still none of that explains why you constantly bring up a claim nobody has ever made (except you) so you can "defeat" it

[KansasVoter]

17. You do not know what countries make up the UK do you???

Here are three very easy to read stats for you!!!

No where are your numbers above repeated.

Please counter these sources. It is easy to read. Not like your 30 tab spreadsheet with households/persons crap.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details/society/burglaries.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Burglaries_per_1,000_pop.svg

[Statistical]

19. Original sources.

come on wikipedia, nationmaster vs original sources.

You don understand in research original sources matter. Nationmaster and wikipedia don't investigate crime. The UK government does. The FBI does.

Did you not notice the urls?
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk <- as in the government of the United Kingdom
http://www.fbi.gov <- as in the government of the United States.

United States has more guns and lower crime. That doesn't fit your vision of a gun free utopia so you are simply want to ignore it. Here no evil, see no evil right.

I mean really you are going to try and trot out wikipedia as your counter to official government sources. Not all sources are equal. I will take the IPCC data over say a blog on how global warming doesn't exist. Both are on the internet. One however is pubished by the United Nations and thus carries a little more weight.

Wikipeida & Nationmaster Really? :rofl: Desperate, even for you.

[KansasVoter]

22. So you really do not know what makes up the UK do you???

And it is funny your source has a UK on the end so you think that is all it needs. You are the least logical poster here.

Come one, like the 4 parts of the UK for extra credit.

[Statistical]

25. Want me to revise the cliam. fine. England and Wales has burglary rate 423% of the US.

Does that make you feel better.

England and Wales banned guns and they have a violent crime rate 1080% of the United States.

I apologize for using the term UK "sloppily".

[KansasVoter]

23. How about murder rate there Stats?

[Statistical]

28. Murder rate in UK was lower than US BEFORE banning guns.

Murder rate has always been lower than the US even when British citizens had equal access to firearms.

Americans have always had a propensity for killing.

Banning guns didn't lower the British homicide rate.
Relaxing guns laws didn't raise the US homicide rate.

Actually the difference between the two rates is falling (US is slowly getting closer to UK) despite UK banning guns and US relaxing gun restrictions.




Slightly long rant but here goes:
I blame mental health system and a systemic breakdown of family (children being raised in bad foster homes and group homes). Anyone reading up of attachment disorders can see that a human who doesn't bond with other humans can be very dangerous later in life. The lack of empathy means they simply don't care. They don't care about killing. That combined with no hope, no future, no chance to break cycle of poverty & violence creates a bad combination.

However solving the real reason for homicides in the United States is tough. It will requires billions of dollars and a generation (or maybe two). It will require consistent support from the government to help poor & struggling families. It will require support/treatment for drug abusers, and a functional child welfare system.

Blaming it on guns is easier.

[Callisto32]

43. FORMER countries.

England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, I believe.

Northern Ireland MAY be a separate country, kind of.

They are now one country, like the UNITED STATES are one country.

[spin]

16. The data Statistical linked to looks solid ...

how about presenting some data and links to counter.

If you can't, why not just admit that you are wrong and that the U.K. is not a criminal free paradise despite their draconian gun laws.

[KansasVoter]

20. Spin is a good name for you. I never said it was crime free.....

Just not 300% higher than ours!

[Statistical]

21. No your right. It has a violent crime rate 1084% (not 300%) of the United States.

423% is just burglaries.

"spin" = official government sources by both the United States & United Kingdom.

Yup the British government likes to make themselves look bad so they being pro-gun (despite banning guns) faked the crime numbers knowing that years later I could provide that as a source on an internet forum.

Yup it is the vast gun owner conspiracy.

[KansasVoter]

24. So my sources are just wrong? LOL! You pick and choose don't you???

[Statistical]

30. One is a website produced by anonymous users. The other is official government sources.

If you can't figure out that when the numbers conflict the official government sources carry more weight well I can't help you.

If the IPCC says earth is warming and a blog says the earth is cooling would you give them equal weight?

[spin]

26. Will you admit that the crime rate in the U.K. is much higher ...

than ours?

If so, what do you think are the causes? That's a serious question not related to my opinions on firearms.

[KansasVoter]

27. Which crimes? Murder? We are three times them on that one!

[Statistical]

29. That is the only category and has nothing to do with guns.

British has ALWAYS had lower homicide rate than the US. They did in the 1880s, early 1900s, 1980s, and today.

Banning guns didn't lower homicide rate in UK.
Banning guns didn't lower violent crime rate in UK.

[KansasVoter]

31. Don't change subject Stats! Address how my sources were wrong! And....

You still have not answered the extra credit question. LOL.

[Statistical]

32. Official govt sources trump anonymous public websites like nationmaster.

Sad you are in so much denial you don't realize that.

Do you honestly think wikipedia or nationmaster does primary research on violent crime around the world? Really.

Of course they don't they simple aggregate information.
You did notice this on nationmasters right?
eventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

So a indirect reference to UN which is an indirect refernece to host nations crime data and it is a decade out of date. Ouch.


I provided you the latest data from the source governments both UK (2007/2008) and US (2008).

The UK and United State governments do crime research and the official numbers indicate that violent crime is higher in England and Wales.

[KansasVoter]

33. LOL.......

Yes, and explain what "per 10,000 adults/ Household" means.

simple aggregate information is what I want them to do. Not look at a 30 tab spreadsheet.

Face it, it is not even double of our numbers.

[Statistical]

34. Decade old data from a anonymous 4th party vs official govt sources.

You aren't convincing anyone.

Robbery, rape, burglary, assault, and overall violent crime are much higher in the UK*.

Banning guns didn't reduce any of them despite the promises of those advocating for it (much like you are now).

UK* does have lower homicide rate but it ALWAYS had a lower homicide rate even before banning guns.
Banning guns hasn't result in a reduction of UK homicide rate. The US homicide rate has fallen by over 50% despite not banning guns. As a result the difference between US & UK homicide rate is smaller today than prior to UK banning guns.

* specifically England and Wales.

[KansasVoter]

35. Not 300% like you said. And you KNEW it was wrong!!!

[Statistical]

36. It isn't wrong. I provided the cite.

Inform the British govt that they are publishing wrong and "nation masters" knows better than them. :rofl:
I am sure they will take it under advisement.

Face it if the RDS showed lower violent crime rate you would support it. You have no problem with the validity of the source, just the results. It conflicts with your flawed view that less guns = less crimes therefore it is "suspect". You are unable to see that maybe just maybe it isn't the data that is suspect it is your rational.

The level of delusion of not believing the official government source simply because you don't like the results is staggering. My point was never to convince you (you can't convince someone engaged in a "religious" war). You have served your purpose well by showing how ignorant gun grabber are even in the face of cold hard evidence.

Still your resolve seems to be breaking. You claim that it is "ok" because UK "only" has a burglary rate 50% higher at least shows you admit that have a higher burglary & violent crime rate despite having draconian restrictions. One baby step closer to reality.

I have responded to your thread hijack enough. I won't discuss this further in this thread. Feel free to start a thread on how gun control works because UK "only" has 50% higher burglary rate; I will continue it there. I mean even if we take those numbers as valid (which I don't) your claim is that UK "only" has a burglary rate 50% higher than our. Really?

[KansasVoter]

37. LOL...Ok, you give up. I'll start a new Burglary Rate In UK..............

thread for you. Even though you think the UK is Britain. Typical American.

And I'll work out the Adults/Households part that seems to be confusing you.

[friendly_iconoclast]

46. You disagree, therefore it's wrong. And two different nations are cooking stats.

We get the gist of what you've been saying...

[Glassunion]

47. "And two different nations are cooking stats."

Not only two nations. Apparently the entire Europian Union has been baking brownies as well...
On top of that both the US and the EU are using crime data provided by the Police. Are the Police fudging their numbers? RRRROOOOOOOOXANNE!

Itza conspearizy!!!

Violent Crime Rates... US vs England/Wales

Source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_01.html
Source: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/crime/data/database

United States
Year Rate % to 1996
1996 636.60
1997 611.00 -4.02
1998 567.60 -10.84
1999 523.00 -17.84
2000 506.50 -20.44
2001 504.50 -20.75
2002 494.40 -22.34
2003 475.80 -25.26
2004 463.20 -27.24
2005 469.00 -26.33
2006 473.60 -25.60
2007 466.90 -26.66

England/Wales
Year Rate % to 1996
1996 663.01
1997 667.43 +0.67
1998 1164.99 +75.71
1999 1352.13 +103.94
2000 1410.36 +112.72
2001 1563.69 +135.85
2002 1950.46 +194.18
2003 2179.82 +228.78
2004 2311.48 +248.63
2005 2345.89 +253.82
2006 2317.98 +249.61
2007 2114.30 +218.89

[Ikonoklast]

5. Worst firearms handlers, shooters, and poor range safety I ever see are usually LEO's.

I know that's a broad brush, but some of those guys need a refresher course.



Oh, and 'government lovers'? What's that?

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. Thanks for stopping by.

[The_Commonist]

8. "Gun haters/government worshipers"?

[Euromutt]

40. So how come we didn't hear *you* bitching...

...whenever somebody used the term "gun worshipers" in obviously denigrating fashion in this forum? Or anytime someone draws comparisons with the Tea Party crowd?

Selective outrage isn't very compelling.

[The_Commonist]

42. Fair enough.

I'll give you that one...

[Statistical]

11. "government worshipers "

sure you are on the right site?

Maybe you took a wrong turn going to www. teabaggers .com?

Don't worry my guess is you won't be here long.

On edit: didn't mean to make tb a real link. Not sure what is realy there and don't want to check at work. :)

[cowman]

12. I think

what this poster meant was those who say only the govt should have guns, I think it was meant as a slap at the anti gun people. I could be wrong though

[ingac70]

38. The tombstone suggests otherwise. n/t

[Statistical]

41. That didn't take long.

I had a feeling.

[TheCowsCameHome]

45. I think

he mistook DU for a pizza joint.

:rofl:

[Glassunion]

39. Umm... Yeah... Umm...

Okay?

:shrug:

[jeepnstein]

44. Getting shot by your training officer...

is a really good way to start off your career. I hope he told him something like "Don't ever do a building search that way, you could get someone hurt." after he determined the Rookie was still breathing.

I don't know what a really bad tactical move on the part of a veteran cop has to do with 2nd Amendment rights. I'm sure someone will come along in a bit and provide clarity.