My experience as a 6 year old

[HockeyMom]

My Mom had taken me to see Santa for the first time at Macy's Herald Square. It was 1954 and right before Christmas. 34th Street was very crowded with holiday shoppers. After seeing Santa, we lined up to take the bus home downtown. Mom paid the money and we were standing in the aisle waiting for people to find a seat and sit so we could find ours. As we still standing, I could hear the bus driver arguing with a man. Suddenly, I heard POP, POP, POP. People immediately started screaming. As a little kid, I had no idea what had happened. Mom grabbed me, threw me on the floor, and got on top of me. I could see other people getting on the floor and under their seats. When people behind us got up, my Mom picked me out and ran out of the bus.

It was then that I saw the bus driver. He was a very large, obese man and was slumped over the big steering wheel. He wasn't moving. Blood was all over him and the front of the bus. It was then I realized, even as a little kid, that the driver was dead and had been shot.

I don't remember very much of what happened after that. We somehow got home, but I couldn't stop shaking and crying. I do remember sleeping in my parents bed that night. Even though this was over 50 years ago, I can picture all this in my mind. I could even describe to you the dress and shoes I was wearing that day as 6 year old child. When I was growing up, it took a very long time for me to adjust to loud noises. Even the sound of fireworks made me jump.

Needless to say, this left a lasting impression on me. This was not a robbery. The man did want to pay his fare and refused to leave the bus.

I would like to hear your comments on how this very big driver in that cramped driver's seat and not directly facing the shooter could have defended himself if he had a gun. How could any of the passengers on that crowded bus had the time to pull out their guns and take this guy down? At any rate, there still would have been bloody, dead people for a little child to see.

BTW, I told my story to husband many years ago. Even as a NRA gun owner, he said nothing probably could have been done to prevent it. At most, somebody else could have shot the prep after the driver was already shot.

[gravity556]

1. Nothing could have been done.

Sometimes, even with airbags and seat belts, people die in car crashes. That doesn't mean that everyone who wears a seat belt is a fool or paranoid.

[TPaine7]

2. In all probability, nothing could have been done.

Neither a police officer nor a citizen can stop someone who attacks with insufficient warning (in spite of the fact that civilians do better than police officers in defensive shootings).

Houses burn down in spite of smoke alarms and fire extinguishers. People die in accidents in spite of using seat-belts, having airbags and driving the speed limit. We can't prevent all disasters.

I'm sorry you witnessed that; it's a horrible experience, especially for a child.

[GreenStormCloud]

3. No one here claims that having a gun will save you 100% of the time.

We do claim that having a gun will improve your odds in many situations. My wife is alive because she had a gun on her when she needed it. BTW - No shots were fired, the criminal ran away when he found out that she was not going to be an easy victim.

[TNDemo]

4. There was a guy near here

who kept a gun in every room of his house for protection. Nevertheless he let in a guy he thought was safe and was robbed at gunpoint and I can't remember what all happened but he survived. I think he said he was going to always have one in his pocket from then on...

[SteveM]

6. I rarely let anyone into my house I do not know, except for parties...

This is a reasonable measure and does not imply, IMO, an unsocial outlook. The key is when that person (whom you don't know) says that he must solve his "problem" by getting into your house. No, no, that won't do. That's as bad as a knock at the door, followed by silence, followed by someone testing the door knob to see if it is locked. That will get a call to the police, which I have made long before I walk to the back of the house for the .38.

[SteveM]

5. It is terrible to see people dead, when a few moments earlier they were alive...

Having a gun, weapon, or even the knowledge of self-defense is not a guarantee, only a prudent measure. One protected by the Constitution.

[spin]

7. A firearm is not a magic wand that you wave and are safe from evil...

with training, it is a good self defense tool.

You have to remember that you can do everything right and still get killed.

[gravity556]

9. Exactly.

The most powerful weapon of self defense is your brain. Pay attention to what is going on around you-if you get that feeling in your gut that something is wrong, cross the street, turn around, do something other than blithely wander into danger. If someone seems to be getting belligerent, apologize (even if you've done nothing wrong) and get the hell away from them.

I think the main misconception folks have is that if you carry a gun, you don't have to take any bullshit from anyone. The exact opposite is true-carrying a tool capable of taking a life requires that you are willing to take MORE bullshit. You can't just wave a gun around when someone flips you off in traffic or snags the last copy of whatever movie it is that you've been dying to see. You can't even wave a gun around if someone is in your face calling you names. You need to be prepared to hold your temper in check and just walk away.

That said, you also need to have a fixed mental point at which you go from avoidance to defense, and defense to offense.

Carrying a gun is not a guarantee of safety in all situations-but it might be the difference between walking away unscathed or becoming a statistic and an organ donor. It is not a decision to be taken lightly.

[spin]

13. Welcome to DU. (n/t)

[proteus_lives]

8. That sucks but where we part ways......

Is using stories like these as logic for stripping citizens of their rights.

Probably nothing could have been done.

Now please explain why that means I shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm.

[Statistical]

10. Guns aren't magic.

People with seat-belts still die in car crashes.
Chemo therapy doesn't always work.
Houses with burglar alarms get robbed.
Homes with smoke detectors do burn down.

Nobody (except maybe gun grabbers making strawmen arguments) is making the claim that a gun will work in all instance at all times and for all people. It doesn't have to. I may die even if I wear a seatbelt but I still wear it. I *may* not be able to defend myself despite having a weapon..... however the seatbelt may save my life and the firearm may give me options I wouldn't otherwise have.

[aikoaiko]

11. I'm sorry to hear that you experienced such a violent crime at such a young age.

We'll never know if the bus driver could have defended himself if he had a gun, but people like me just want a fighting chance to defend themselves against violent attackers such as the one your story. Guns aren't magical, but they are useful tools when used properly.

[pipoman]

12. Shouldn't the many anecdotes

of people effectively defending themselves and/or their families with a gun, actually weigh heavier than cases which resulted in death assuming the the motive is robbery or random violence? There are many such stories both reported and unreported.

There is nobody in this forum who will not be empathetic to your story. Legislation should be passed based on statistical facts, never based on an anecdote...otoh I do many things because of the anecdotal risk even though the statistical risk is very low..fire insurance and seat belts, catastrophic health care insurance and waiting for the signal to cross the street..I also keep a defensive gun which is no different. When my kids were young we had fire drills and tornado drills at our house to be sure our kids actions in a particular situation would be more predictable...we also had intruder drills for the same reason.

[Kringle]

14. when seconds count, the police are only minutes away .nt

[one-eyed fat man]

15. In 1954

In 1954 in New York, carrying a concealed weapon was 100% illegal, and had been since the passage of the Sullivan Law in 1911.

Shooting people simply because you didn't feel like paying fifteen cents bus fare was also illegal.

Had two dozen policemen been on the bus, it is quite likely they would not have been able to stop the assailant. They might have been able to prevent his escape. Very likely some would have been too stunned to even be able to tell someone their version of what happened.

Sometimes, no matter how how try to avoid trouble, it finds you anyway. Then it can be like having a parachute malfunction while skydiving, you only have the rest of your life to do something about it.