Eight U.S. militia members enter not guilty pleas (Follow-up to earlier thread)

[shadowrider]

Earlier Thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=306099&mesg_id=306099

(Reuters) - Eight members of an extremist militia group accused of conspiring to kill law enforcement officers as part of a wider war on the U.S. government pleaded not guilty in federal court on Wednesday.

U.S.

Attorneys for the eight sought to fight government efforts to have the defendants detained for the duration of the proceedings, a court case that one of the lawyers predicted would be "a mega-trial that will take years to unfold."

The group's leader, 45-year-old David Brian Stone, had planned to take over three or four rural counties in southeastern Michigan and use the toehold to ambush and kill members of U.S. law enforcement, Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet said.

The Christian militia group, which called itself the Hutaree, viewed the police as their enemy because they believed U.S. law enforcement officers were acting as agents of a "new world order," Waterstreet said.

Prosecutors played a recording which they said was taped by a federal agent who had infiltrated the group.

In it, Stone read from a speech he had prepared to deliver at a February meeting of other militia groups in Kentucky -- a meeting that was ultimately canceled because of a snow storm.

"How much longer are you going to put up with a foreign army controlling your streets and highways?" Stone was heard saying.

"Now's the time to strike and take our nation back."

William Swor, the attorney defending Stone, said his client was only exercising his constitutional right to free speech.

"What we heard today is that Mr. Stone talks a lot, that Mr. Stone is angry," Swor said in court. "There's nothing that says he was looking to make war on the United States."

A lawyer for the ninth suspect arrested in the four-state raid, Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Indiana, agreed with that assessment.

"The question is were they actually serious, or just a bunch of guys beating their chests and issuing rants?" said Jerry Flynn, his court-appointed attorney.

"There are a lot of allegations with very little proof."

An FBI agent said Piatek had nearly 50 firearms and thousands of rounds of ammunition in his home. A magistrate judge in Indiana ordered Piatek transferred to Michigan, where he could stand trial with the others.

A federal grand jury indictment unsealed this week in Detroit charged the eight men and one woman with seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence. They could face up to life in prison.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62U60220100331?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

Nowhere in the article does it say these weapons were illegal. So I guess if someone owns a bunch of guns, legally, and says something anti-government, they open themselves up to this type of action?

Don't get me wrong. If there is actual proof, other than rantings (i.e. weapons under construction or actually built, etc.), of their intent to "go to war", they deserve what they get.

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. April 1st.

Ya got me.

[Katya Mullethov]

2. "Relax Charlie ,I got an.... angle "

And they no doubt do .

Link to F-Troop Corruption case , old news ( yesterday) , worksafe this time
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100331_11_A1_Federa970443




http://www.flickr.com/photos/42402120@N07/4293229160/sizes/o/

[DonP]

3. The "inside" guy?

The more I hear about this as the details come out, the more skeptical I'm becoming.

These guys may indeed be the serious threat they were originally described as. Or, they may wind up being a bunch of wayward loons that were led along by an inside informant.

The "inside" guy is now claiming "well, yes he was building bombs, but only because they told him he had to". I'm starting to think that this whole thing could have the wheels fall off. The next thing I expect to find out is that three or four other members of the group were also undercover.

Every time I hear of one of these arrests I find myself waiting longer and longer before I decide what really happened.

[shadowrider]

4. I agree

It's starting to stink, but I'll wait for more facts to come out before I make up my mind.

[tburnsten]

14. Oh wow, I didn't get that far into it

I have to say, even the snippet I read up there makes me feel a lot less convinced that they were anything but some chest thumping fools, in the words of their attorneys.

[PavePusher]

5. "Piatek had nearly 50 firearms and thousands of rounds of ammunition in his home"

Hell, I have "thousands of rounds of ammunition" in my home.

Oooooooo, I'm a tewwuhwist......

[safeinOhio]

6. careful agent Mike

reads this.

Hey if they stopped another Tim McVeigh, great. If not, that is why the Constitution gives us jury trials. Sounds like they may have saved the life of a cop or two.

[PavePusher]

7. Correct.

I was more poking fun at the breathless hysteria from whom-ever wrote the article, who seems to equate "thousands of rounds of ammo" with being in some sort of criminal conspiracy. The possesion of ammo is no way is indicitive of criminal intent. It may be a result of criminal intent, but in isolation it means nothing.

[SteveSund]

8. True

I have well over a thousand rounds of ammo, but that is because I occasionally find some really good deals and it just makes sense. Ammo doesn't really expire, so I don't worry about having too much.

[Euromutt]

11. I have "thousands of rounds" and I don't have a particularly large stockpile

I have centerfire rifled calibers, with 300-600 rounds in each, and 100-300 defensive rounds in all but one (my Yugoslav M59/66 is part collector's piece, part range toy). Throw in a few hundred shotgun rounds and a few bricks of .22LR and yeah, that's close to 4,000 rounds right there. Not enough to start a guerrilla campaign with, though.

[Katya Mullethov]

9. Where......... oh where

Does he find the time ?

[PavePusher]

10. Well, I'm jealous.... n/t

[krispos42]

12. The derps, you mean?

[tburnsten]

13. Lots of people own that many guns

Doesn't mean they are preparing to wage war. It's called a collection. And thousands of rounds is an afternoon or two at the range. Sensationalism at its finest.

Though these guys are now where they belong, which is good.

And these guys did an awful lot more than just have some guns. They also illegally got explosives, were conspiring to commit many murders, to create improvised explosive devices, and slaughter people at a funeral.