OK someone has broken in your house. They are standing 20 feet away

[Taverner]

They don't know you're there

What tool would you rather have? Basball bat or a Glock 9mm?

Me? I'll take the baseball bat and kneecap the bastard.

If I had the gun, there's a good chance I'd miss, even 20 feet away

And when I yell out "stop freeze!" there's a good chance he or she won't.

Granted this has nothing to do with the legality of guns - If I were 50 feet away I'd rather have the Glock.

[rfranklin]

1. Get yourself a shotgun...

The only downside is some holes in the sheetrock.

[shadowrider]

4. Taurus Judge

A shotgun in convenient revolver form (It fires a .410 shotgun shell)

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

8. .410 is anemic. Howevr, it would defend well against squirrel and avian invasions.

[shadowrider]

12. LOL perhaps it is

But it'd be hard to miss the target. If nothing else, the boom would scare him (and half the neighborhood).

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

17. Serbu super shorty... 12" of 12ga fun.

[dashrif]

25. no

with the judge you mix 45lc .410 000buck with 4 .36 cal balls that is far from anemic

[GreenStormCloud]

57. Winchester makes 000 buck in .410. Five pellets. N/T

[Mike K]

78. A .410 may be anemic -

- in relation to a 12 gauge or if used against a bear, but a .410 slug striking a human being will be as lethal as a .44 magnum handgun round.



This is a double barrel .410 derringer. Anyone struck center mass with this fearsome weapon at close range will be killed by the trauma alone.

[shadowrider]

82. A Judge is going to be my next weapon

For home defense. I have a PT140 I conceal carry, but if I'm home, I don't mind holes in the sheetrock if it saves my life. I'd load it up with alternating rounds of .45LC and .410

Review here:
http://www.taurusjudge.net/taurus_judge-magnum.htm

[dashrif]

87. you

dont have to use .410 slugs in that you can use 45 long colt same as the judge 410 slug is ~1/5 oz or 85gr vs 250gr from a 45 lc

[Taverner]

38. Holes in sheetrock, windows, walls, furniture, grandma's priceless vase...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. Or in one of my dogs. No thanks I'll shoot the dirtbag in the head with my Springfield XD 40.

[Callisto32]

81. At 20 ft.?

Nah, you still need to aim a shotgun all the way out to forever. They are not a magical weapon that peppers massive areas, especially when loaded with defensive ammunition like a buck and ball or straight buckshot. Patterns at appropriate shotgun distances are not nearly as large as many suspect. Granted, long guns are inherently easier to hit with than a handgun, no argument there. I'm not sure this is even what you are saying, but I wanted to caution against the whole "you don't need to aim a shotgun" mentality, you do. Also, while on the subject of shotguns, there is a theory that the familiar sound of a pump shotgun will be enough to scare someone away. Don't bet on this. Don't go for a weapon unless you plan on using lethal force. If you bluff, you not only give away your location and any element of surprise you may have, you might just put the scumbag who thinks its okay to make a living by force into fight mode.

[shadowrider]

2. It depends

Is he standing there with a .45? .40? .38? If it's dark and you can't see, and he's in your house, better to be safe than sorry. I HAVE my .40.

You can TRY and kneecap him IF he doesn't blow you away first.

[meegbear]

3. I'd rather have the ability to make their heads explode by staring at them ...

that would be AWESOME!

[onehandle]

10. I'll resist posting that infamous 'Scanners' gif.

Use your imagination.

;-)

[Katya Mullethov]

5. Does he spin and run at me with a 12in watermelon knife ?

Better make it count .

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

9. ROFL. (n/t)

[onehandle]

6. I agree. Others will say that if you were 'properly trained' that you would not miss your teenager.

Who just snuck in after bedtime.

Wait... I mean someone who has just broken into your home.

I'd go with the bat up close. Less chance of killing your kid.

The burglar... the burglar.

Damn! Why do I keep doing that.

[jaksavage]

23. My dad almost shot my sister

in a middle of the night surprise visit from college.

[Euromutt]

28. Yes, why *do* you keep doing that?

The short answer to that question would violate DU rules, and go counter to the push for civility on this board, so I'll restrict myself to surmising that you "keep doing that" because you're willfully making a number of unwarranted assumptions based on prejudice; and because you're projecting your own shortcomings on others.

The first assumption is that everyone has a teenage kid.

The second is that parental communication with said kid is so lousy that the parents are unaware whether or not the kid is home at any given moment.

The third is that anyone who owns a firearm for home defense must be so paranoid that they can't tell the difference between the sound of an exterior door being unlocked with a key, and any sound compatible with an intrusion into the house by other means.

The fourth is that everyone is unaware, or at least will invariably fail to by abide by, Cooper's Rule #4 ("Be sure of your target, and what is beyond it").

The fifth is that everybody is unaware of these new-fangled hand-held electric lighting devices ("flashlights" I think they're called), which allow a person to shine a light on the unidentified intruder and thus ascertain their identity. Certainly, nobody could possibly ever come up with the idea of mounting such a device directly on a firearm! (Or could they? http://www.surefire.com/Weaponlights http://www.insighttechgear.com/products.htm http://www.streamlight.com/market/market.aspx?mkid=1 )

Look, if you don't trust yourself with a firearm because the above all apply to you, that's your lookout. But at least do everybody else the courtesy of not projecting your own shortcomings onto them, eh?

[eqfan592]

55. Out-fucking-standing!

[Hoopla Phil]

60. Well said!

[proteus_lives]

63. Well done sir!

:thumbsup:

He limped away from that one!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. My guess is your head injury. Oh wait I meant your teenagers head injury.

Oh wait I meant the burglars head injury.

[GreenStormCloud]

58. That's what nightlights are for. To see who is in the house. N/T

[SteveM]

67. No teenagers in my house. Next.... nt

[Warpy]

7. it happened

I chased the little bastard. Somebody saw me chasing him and got the license plate number of his car.

Cops haven't found him.

I came home so he didn't get much.

[HopeHoops]

11. A staff or long sword. But nobody is going to get past the dogs.

We've got quite a few of each in the house (not dogs, just two of those), along with lots of nun-chucks, throwing stars & knives, metal and wooden knives, a few pairs of sai, and yeah, if need be I can get out the shotgun, but it is kind of a sloppy weapon. Oh, and a baseball bat within easy reach.

I also have a wife and three teenage daughters who are all 2nd degree black belts, so there's THAT to contend with.

I don't worry too much about such things.

[hlthe2b]

13. alert dog.... (which might deter but also give me a chance to call 911)

before the guy gets in...

[shadowrider]

15. Ever hear the 911 call of

The lady that called to report an ex-boyfriend was trying to break in? 5 minutes she was on the phone before he got to her. She was still on the phone when she shot him 3 times. He won't be doing that again.

Needless to say, I call 911 if I have the chance, but between the time I make the call and the police get there, I'm on my own.

[hlthe2b]

18. You ignore the issue of the dog

As one who (as a teen) had to confront this as I was home from school in my parents house, knowing my father had a loaded handgun and where it was.... I'll just say that I would have used it if necessary, but the dog's barking made the guy hesitate as he came through the gate between the garage and the house, preparing to enter the back door.... That gave me time to peer through the window, realize what was about to happen and call 911. The dog continued to bark and the guy, realizing I suppose that his element of surprise was gone, turned on his heel to go to another house.

Dogs can be the difference between a direct confrontation or not in some cases... I'll take that heads up, any time.

[shadowrider]

31. An alert dog can be a good thing

and I didn't mean to intentionally leave it out of the conversation. It's just that many people don't have one. More power to you if you do.

[-..__...]

50. "D'ya like dags?"

Oh, dogs. Sure, I like dags. I like 12gauge pump actions loaded with 000 buckshot more...



:smoke:

[dashrif]

59. Is

that the scat cat..........one rack and the would be cat burglar shats themselves




I love it, it rocks and :yourock:

[SteveM]

68. Just a look at that cat would make some thug jump & run.

[hlthe2b]

19. Your example of a crazed stalker boyfriend is a unique one

from the generic example the OP posed. Obviously, knowing one had someone that dangerous (and deranged) stalking you would make a difference between gun or not..

[eqfan592]

29. There's also a fairly recent 911 call...

...where the woman did not have any such stalker, but still ended up having to defend herself from an attacker that broke into her house. She called 911 when she started hearing the noises. 10 minutes later, with no police in sight, the attacker made it through, and she had to shoot him.

If somebody not at work still has the link to the youtube video, that would be great.

And let's not forget the case of the woman in California who was killed while on the phone with 911 waiting for police to arrive. Again, not stalkers, just criminals looking to steal and didn't like the thought of a witness.

[shadowrider]

36. See Post 34

[shadowrider]

34. Here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ExC7fE1LaY&feature=related

From the beginning of the audio, count how many minutes go by before she shoots. That is a freakin eternity when you're in her shoes.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. I'm not risking one of my dogs lives.

[hlthe2b]

65. Who is risking a dog's life? Just owning a dog is risking their life?

If having them in the home with you and able to bark when they hear something untoward is putting their lives at risk, exactly HOW do you have a dog? I am not advocating sending the dog out to attack. However, their very presence is a good deterrent (arguably the best deterrent when their barks are heard through the door) What are you thinking?????

If your post to me,were not so ludicrous, it would be highly insulting. Are you suggesting you debark your dogs so as not to have them potentially put themselves at risk? :shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. Come on you are smarter than that?

I have 10 dogs at the house right now. If they are barking I go out to investigate, instead of trusting that a criminal will be deterred by the barking.

[hlthe2b]

75. Then what on earth was your point?

You assume that anyone who has a dog and assumes the dog would bark at something unusual, would not likewise investigate upon hearing the dog begin to bark? I honestly don't know what point you were trying to make, although the seeming suggestion that anyone (except perhaps the lowest slug on earth) would use their dog as "cannon fodder" is what pushed my button. :shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

76. Sorry you took it that way.

[Cleita]

14. I'd rather have a cell phone and hope that I can text message 9/11. n/t

[hlthe2b]

20. text? why wouldn't you just call 911 and let them hear if necessary

Good heavens... How long would it take to get the relevant info via text versus verbal call?

[Cleita]

21. Because, if the intruder doesn't know I'm there why would I let him know?

I think you could text SOS or HELP. All police stations get caller ID so they know where to go.

[hlthe2b]

24. and what if they think it is a prank?

One can whisper on the phone exactly what the issue is, while also leaving it active so that the dispatcher can hear if the guy continues and confronts...

[eqfan592]

30. Yeah, have fun with the 10+ minute wait while the attacker is 20 feet from you. (nt)

[AtheistCrusader]

47. Beep boop beep beep beep boop

yeah, texting will really keep you hidden.

[shadowrider]

79. What if the bad guy cuts your phone cable outside

Before entering? They do that ya know. Then you're left with a cellphone (if you have one) that doesn't have address information present on Caller ID.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

16. You would assault an unidentified target?

Whether it's a bat or gun it's still morally reprehensible.
What if it were your kid or a relative withouth bad intention?

All that aside, say you've already decided to take the MF'er out...
I'd rather ahve a Glock 9mm. And I would tell the asshole to stop.

If he runs away then good, problem solved. If he runs for cover I'll let him hide till the cops show up.
If he comes at me... I'll have to call Stanley Carpet Cleaners the next day.

If you decide to use a firearm for self defense you should be responsible for learning to use it proficiently.
Hitting a man sized target <20ft would be within the bounds of proficiency.
The unskilled use of a firearm could get disarmed or even unintended persons killed.

[jody]

22. If you believe there's a good chance he or she won't, why shout "stop freeze!"? n/t

[damntexdem]

26. Put yourself 50 feet away, then 100, and keep on running.

Until you are safe enough to call the authorities.

[eqfan592]

32. Not always a viable option.

I would hope a reasonable person would understand that.

[skeptical cynic]

27. Too many unknowns...

Are you sure the person is the home invader? If not, don't shoot.
Twenty feet away and leaving? Let them go if you're not in danger. (Using deadly force unnecessarily, or as summary punishment without due process, is immoral.)
Twenty feet away and about to walk into your child's room at the end of the hall? Empty the magazine.
If deadly force is warranted, then use the deadliest force within reach.

I think there's no better combination than a Sig .40 cal, or whatever make/model/caliber you are comfortable and competent shooting, in the gun safe, and two protection-trained German shepherds, or your own favorite number and breed of alarm and/or protection dog, loose in the house at all times.

Dogs are a very effective deterrent to home invasion, and the right dog is also a very effective defense. A working-bred dog from a working breed retains the prey and fight drive that's been bred out of many kennel club lines, and people overestimate their ability to remain calm when under attack by a large dog. And even a little yapper, while not much for defense, is a great alarm.

The first domestic dogs evolved (via artificial selection) for exactly that purpose--alarm and defense.

[DonP]

33. That's why my Surefire sits right next to my .45 ACP handgun

Assuming, per your post, that I know it's a break in, the first thing you are taught to do is identify the threat and your possible target.

(Why is it that only gun control people ever seem to talk about "shooting at a shape in the dark".)

Anyone who has had even the most basic kind of training knows you are legally and ethically responsible for identifying any target before you fire and what is behind that target.

That's why SureFire and Streamlight are selling their small, high end ($150+) LED cop flashlights every bit as fast as handguns these day. A 200+ lumen light in their face tends to make people freeze in position when it hits them. Certainly long enough to figure out if it's a family member, drunken neighbor or total stranger.

At 20 feet you have no extra time to react with any degree of confidence. If the individual does not immediately comply with your orders to drop anything in their hands, to get on the floor, or leave (never say "Stop" or "Freeze" that's only on TV), and they make any kind of potential hostile move you have no other serious choice if you feel your life is in danger.

[MineralMan]

35. Neither. My 12 ga. with 00 buckshot is a much better

choice.

[Taverner]

37. Yeah, but what if you also destroy some furniture?

[MineralMan]

39. If you had seen my furniture you wouldn't even ask.

I can replace it all from the Free ads on Craig's List. :rofl:

[Taverner]

40. LOL

I guess you do have a point

[MineralMan]

42. Heck, that's why I pulled all of the carpeting out of my house and

installed hard floors. Easier to clean up the blood, I figure, when I shoot all those people breaking into my house. :rofl:

Which reminds me: I need to get that shotgun out of the closet and clean it pretty soon. It's been in there for five years, with five in the magazine and the slide lock released. A guy just never knows when the home invasions will start up. I looked at it last year, and it was still pretty clean though. I racked all the shells through it, reloaded it and stashed it back in there.

[Taverner]

43. I dunno I think you've gotta have some clay pigeons that have been up to no good

And they need a bit of an attitude adjustment ;)

[MineralMan]

44. Nah. I have always been a crack wing shot.

Some moron standing in my house would be toast. I don't need to go to the range. I could use a new box of 00, though. Maybe I'll stop by Fleet Farm and pick up a fresh box and some spinnerbaits.

I tried to get my wife to learn to shoot the shotgun, but she isn't having any of that. So, there it'll sit, I suppose, until I die. That's about how soon I expect a break-in.

[Taverner]

45. Yeah, but don't tell me shooting clay pigeons isn't fun!

I mean, what better way to bring your shotgun back to life then by wasting some poor clay plates!

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Might want to swap out the magazine spring.

failure to feed sucks


"Where was the kaboom? There was SUPPOSED to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"

[rrneck]

70. Yep.

Look up "cheap bastard" in the dictionary. You'll see my picture there.

[Jdub4abluenc]

66. Easy enough at 20-feet

I'll see you & raise you - dogs in the yard, DPMS M4 w/ quad rail ,EoTech optics on top, Surefire flashlight mounted on the right ,red dot laser on the left & Hornady TAP .223 60gr. Not a problem.

[jeepnstein]

41. Twenty feet?

You don't even need to use the sights that close. That's point shooting.

[X_Digger]

46. 1911 :)

Seriously though, I go to the range every other weekend when I can swing it, and the closest I shoot is 25'. I can put all 8 rounds in a 4" circle at that distance under range conditions. In a tense situation at 20', I can imagine my aim dropping, but not so badly that I wouldn't hit center mass multiple times.

Also unstated in your proposition is whether or not they are armed and with what.

[Jdub4abluenc]

72. 20' is "Fish in a Barrel" range

For my M4 setup even in a tense situation.

[X_Digger]

73. *nod* I suppose..

I could leave my AR pistol by the bed, but we'd both be blind and deaf after the first shot ;)

[Pavulon]

49. Been there done that, glock 17 and a flashlight..

not sure if the guy climbing in the window saw the sidearm pointed at him but he saw the light. He just kinda went back out the window. The dog barking woke me up.

He was passive in the flashlight, had he gone wonky there would have been a different outcome.

[guardian]

54. I yell out "stop freeze!"

Why would you do that? Just shoot the fucker and be done with it. Only a fool would give warning.

[GreenStormCloud]

56. With the baseball bat you have to close the last 17 of those 20 feet.

From 20 feet away I can't do anything with the baseball bat. With a handgun, I will hit the perp. I won't yell, "Stop. Freeze.", as that surrenders the iniative to the intruder. I will shoot without warning.

[Hoopla Phil]

61. 20 feet is inside the danger zone if the intruder is armed with a knife.

I person with a knife can close that distance with surprising speed.

[proteus_lives]

62. Glock.

Why get close? What if they have a gun?

Plus if they don't stop when you yell freeze, then shoot them. But most will freeze they have a firearm pointed at them.

[krispos42]

64. The pistol

Follow quietly until you can get to a light switch, then *click* and "Kiss the carpet or you're dead!"



Although I'd prefer a bayonet-tipped M1 Carbine loaded with hollowpoints instead incase it gets way too intimate.

[SteveM]

69. Well, I never was that good at baseball...

and at my age and speed, and within my relatively confined space, it is unlikely I will get a "hit" on the thug. That's why I have a wheel gun beside my bed: point and pull trigger, early and often.

A thug would have to break down a back door, followed by coming through a second door to get to my bedroom; the front door is a dead-bolt solid which would withstand force for a few seconds.

I used to have a shotgun standing near, but that old Stevens 311D is too unwieldy, and my patterning practice indicates the shot would be clustered in a small area at 20', still a good possibility of a miss. And I would have to go through the ritual of unloading and locking up a long gun when I leave my residence (not so with the revolver). I have become fairly familiar with my .357, and can hit targets well, up to 40'. (Thank god it has some good Hogue grips.)

[hex29a]

71. That's an invitation to the "one strike and you're out" scenario.

...

[east texas lib]

77. I'd opt for the 40 Gigawatt phased plasma pistol...

But opinions vary.;-)

[GreenStormCloud]

85. I take it that it doesn't have a "stun" setting. N/T

[Callisto32]

80. Practice more.

[Euromutt]

83. Of those choices, the handgun

Taking a baseball bat to someone constitutes use of lethal force as it is, so once you've crossed that threshold, you may as well use what's most advantageous to you.

But frankly, I've already specified my decision further, namely by keeping a Smith & Wesson M&P40 fitted with Trijicon night sights, Crimson Trace laser grips, Arredondo extended magazine floorplate (providing a magazine capacity of 19+1) and Insight M3 weaponlight in a quick-access lock box by my bedside. For situations in which I have a little more time to arm myself, I have a Benelli SuperNova with an extended mag tube, Meprolight night sights, another Insight M3, and a Mesa Tactical sidesaddle.

And a variety of telephones.

[Bosso 63]

84. Ice ax

I have young kids so my firearms are locked up and would be useless in this situation.
Its not perfect, but I can also open a beer with it.

[Katya Mullethov]

88. One firm blow, stapling the lower jaw into the soft palate

It's sort of a signature move .

[oneshooter]

86. If this situation arose at my house

The intruder would be busy trying to remove two sets of teeth, attached to our pair of 70lb dogs. While he is thus engaged my Loving Wife and I will be watching his ballet over the sights of my AR-15 and her High-Point 995. By the time the dogs are done having their fun either the LEO's are there awaiting their turn, or He is begging me to shoot him. Possibly both.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas