Official credits program for less gun crime

[Superfly]

Wow, who'd a thunk it? Actually prosecuting those who committ crimes with guns and enforcing the thousands of gun laws already on the books! One of the few things this administration has actually done right.

Link

<snip>

A 2-year-old program aimed at reducing gun crime has succeeded not only in getting firearms off the streets, but also in sending violent felons to federal prison, U.S. Attorney David Iglesias says.

Since Project Safe Neighborhoods began in the summer of 2001, federal prosecutions of criminals who use guns in New Mexico have increased by 63 percent, Iglesias said at a news conference Wednesday.

Federal prosecutors in New Mexico have brought charges against 442 people for gun violations since the program started, he said. Of those, 274 have been convicted, the "vast majority" through guilty pleas, Iglesias said.

Of those already sentenced, three-quarters have been given at least three years in prison, he said.

Iglesias noted that in federal prison, there is no such thing as parole, and there is very little time off granted for good behavior.

Federal prisoners typically serve at least 90 percent of their sentences, he said.

"We are taking the most violent gun-carrying felons off of the streets and sending them to federal prison," Iglesias said.

<snip>

Project Safe Neighborhoods

[demsrule4life]

1. Here in Alabama it is called Alabama ICE

Alabama ICE (Isolate the Criminal Element) is a partnership among federal, state, and local law enforcement officials to reduce the level of gun violence in Alabama.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/aln/Pages/ice.html

[alwynsw]

2. Good for them!

This addresses the thing many of us have been advocating for years. "Enforce the laws on the books instead of passing new laws."

It looks as though enforcement actions such as this are proving us right.

Excellent post.

[RossMcLochNess]

3. This should be tried in every state...

before we go and pass new gun laws that aren't enforced either.

[MrBenchley]

4. Gee, the RKBA crowd pimping for the GOP

Who of thunk it?

[Superfly]

5. Yeah, and who'd a thunk it that

you would poo poo any program designed to combat gun crime? :shrug:

[MrBenchley]

8. Gee, fly...

If you think Republicans have the answers....

[demsrule4life]

10. This makes no sense to me

all you do is cry about gun crime and now when there are programs trying to do something about it you are against it. Man I'am confused.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

23. Gee, dems...

This doesn't do a damn thing to make crime drop...nor does the source even claim such a thing.. All it does is lock offenders away for a somewhat longer time AFTER they have committed a crime with a gun they have been able to get easily (in New Mexico criminals can walk into any gun show and buy guns without a background check).

And it shifts the prosecution from the state level to the Federal level, for no other reason than to pad the Federal stats so AshKKKroft can say "See, I am tough on crime."

[slackmaster]

37. MrB doesn't believe that keeping criminals in jail lowers crime

Go figure.

:eyes:

[MrSandman]

41. Actually, it started under Clinton and does make crime drop

" In 1997, the U.S. Attorney's Office in Richmond developed and carried out an aggressive, innovative, and creative approach to this violence called "Project Exile."

The project has quickly, efficiently, and successfully prosecuted a large number of gun crimes, with significant impact on criminal behavior."
< >
"In Richmond, which in recent years has had one of the nation's highest homicide rates, authorities credit Project Exile with helping to reduce gun-related homicides dramatically. Police say there were 140 gun-related homicides last year; so far this year there have been 34. Gun-related armed robberies, meanwhile, are down by a third."**

**This was in June--looks like cut in half the first year.


http://www.vahv.org/Exile/Exile.html


"The goal of this program, and similar programs throughout the country, is to change the culture of gun violence in America."

Might be wasier and less politically suicidal than getting rid of guns in America. More efficient, too.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/co/EXILEINFOFrame1Source1.htm

Project Exile is making sure only those who should have acess to legal firearms.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/co/EXILESTATUTESFrame1Source1.htm

Both fringes agree:

"On a morning talk show Sunday, NRA President Charlton Heston told a national television audience that `in less than a year, they reduced deaths, murders, in the city of Richmond by half' through the Exile project.

Handgun Control Chairman Sarah Brady, in a letter to the U.S. attorney here, said: `Your work is succeeding in getting guns out of the hands of criminals . . . The results in Richmond are impressive."

http://www.vahv.org/goode.html

[CO Liberal]

43. Programs Like This......

...appear to be effective with dealing with crimes after the fact. We need to come up with workable solutions to prevent crime in the first place.

[alwynsw]

44. As long a humans have free will

There will never be an effective plan to stop crime before it starts. Crime can be reduced before it starts through a number of venues - we think. (you can't prove a negative)

We can reduce future crime by imprisoning those who deserve it because of crimes committed. (once again you can't prove a negative) Given the recidivism rate of convicted felons, one can safely assume that most would continue to commit crimes if they are not incarcerated. At least the crime rate for the incarcerated segment drops while they are behing bars.

[MrBenchley]

46. Too too funny...

So we can't close loopholes in already effective laws, or take common sense steps because it might violate free will....yeah, ri-i-i-i-i-i-i-ight......

[MrBenchley]

45. Mostly though

what they do is pad federal stats...

[MrSandman]

47. I would say reducing the number of homocides

is preventing the crime before they happen(see results from Richmond)

[a2wise]

48. Preventing crime is laudable

and a solution is a fine goal. How to achieve this? I had the notion of putting criminals in prision was in part to do that. To decrease recidivism. That was one measure prisons used the measure the prisons effectiveness. What I read here is that you want to experiment with the stated rights of the people and see what happens. I have seen lots of theorys promoting that line of thinking, unfortunatly It is only a theory and I do not care to mess with the Constitution for a little more social engineering

[demsrule4life]

6. Us RKBA types hate crime with guns

more then the antis. If there was no gun crime then the anti's would have to find something else to cry about.

[MrBenchley]

9. Yeah, we can tell

by the screams of rage from the RKBA crowd any time any proposal to keep guns out of the hands of criminals is discussed.

[Superfly]

11. This here is not a proposal...

but an actual program that is keeping guns out of the hands of criminals by putting them away in jail. And it appears to have some success.

[demsrule4life]

14. This is the proof

that he has to be progun and agrees that criminals should be armed.

[Superfly]

16. I guess.

I bet if the republicans found the cure for cancer, we would see a similar reaction.

[MrBenchley]

19. I bet if the Republicans

said they had the cure for cancer it would involve either tax cuts for the rich or screwing the poor....or both.

[MrBenchley]

18. Not even close to true...

It's putting criminals in jail after they have obtained a gun and committed a crime. It doesn't do a damn thing to prevent them frrom getting a gun in the first place exccept in RKBA fantasy land.

[Superfly]

27. Oh, so now we're going to deny people rights

BEFORE they commit a crime? Are you sure you're not a marxist?

[demsrule4life]

12. Nobody here was screaming in fits of rage about

this program. Why are you against it?

[MrBenchley]

21. First of all dems...

You're assuming I am against it...when all I observed so far is that the RKBA crowd is enthusiastically pimping for right wing Republicans AGAIN...which you guys ARE doing.

Secondly, it must be observed that despite the hoorahinng and chest-thumping, this program does not do a damn thing to keep guns out of criminals' hands.

And finally, if its such a goddamn hot idea...how come the funding is being cut?

[Superfly]

28. Who says it's been cut?

Maybe they've improved their process and don't need as much money.

[MrBenchley]

30. Yeah, surrrrrrrrrre....

There must be somebody who would believe THAT.

[demsrule4life]

31. I do

seems like anything that is first introduced gets cheaper as time goes on.

[MrBenchley]

35. Hahahahahahaha....

You go right on believing that when the Republicans tell you they're cutting Social Security or Medicare or the EPA funding or Food Stamps or funds for public libraries or aid to the Boys and Girls Clubs or the COPS program or worker retraining programs or any of the other things they slice funding for.

[txdm]

40. No

just proposals that keep guns out of law abiding citizens



laws only work on the law abiding

[RossMcLochNess]

7. This has nothing to do with the GOP...

Its not talking about any new laws or anything the GOP did, its about getting serious in regards to enforcing existing laws. Its praise for the legal system actually doing their job.

[MrBenchley]

13. Who ARE you trying to kid?

From the FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THE FIRST POST: "One of the few things this administration has actually done right."

By the way...here's an example of them presumably "doing right" from the link:

"U.S. Rep. Heather Wilson, an Albuquerque Republican, said at the news conference that the omnibus appropriations bill pending before Congress contains $250,000 for New Mexico's Project Safe Neighborhoods.
Federal funding for the program in New Mexico last year amounted to $320,000, she said. "

[Superfly]

15. That's great!

Pumping more money into programs that work. Jeeze man, you have got to drop that blind partisanship.

[MrBenchley]

22. Hell-O?!?

Last year $320,000...next year $250,000...and this BY YOU is "putting more money into"???

No wonder you guys think Mary Rosh is a real scientist.

[Superfly]

25. Yes...

putting an additional quarter mil into the program is "putting more money" into the program. I know it's not more than $320,000, man!

If last year it cost them $320,000 and this year they want $250,000, that shows me that:

1) They've improved their process and do not need as much money, which is a good thing.
2) The program, has shown success and an apparently lower operating budget and should be funded again.

[MrBenchley]

32. Who DO you think you're kidding?

How is a $70,000 cut putting anything into the program?

"this year they want $250,000"
Fly, that's what they're getting, not what they want. The article doesn't say a damn thing about what was requested.

"They've improved their process"
WHAT process? All they've done is shuffled the criminals from state court to Federal court.

[Superfly]

34. Economics is not your strong suit, I take it.

"The article doesn't say a damn thing about what was requested."
----but you have enough to ask: "how come the funding is being cut?" How do you know if it wasn't requested, if the article doesn't mention it?

"WHAT process? All they've done is shuffled the criminals from state court to Federal court."
-----Arresting, convicting, then incarcerating felons is a process.

""We are taking the most violent gun-carrying felons off of the streets and sending them to federal prison," Iglesias said."

That is a process.

[MrBenchley]

38. I know minus $70,000 ISN'T an increase, fly

"you have enough to ask: "how come the funding is being cut?""
Yeah, fly, I do. I know how the Republicans operate....and I know that next year they're going to get $70,000 less than this year. That's a cut no matter how desperately you spin.

And again, I ask you what is the process, beyond taking the case from a state attorney and handing it to a Federal Attorney?

By the way, again from the source...

"Federal prosecutors in New Mexico have brought charges against 442 people for gun violations since the program started, he said. Of those, 274 have been convicted, the "vast majority" through guilty pleas, Iglesias said."
So in 40% of the cases there's been no jail time,and for the majority of those where the criminal DID go to jail (AFTER committing the crime with the gun he got his hands on easily), he pled guilty to get a shorter sentence. Yeah, the program's a ball of fire,all right.

[RossMcLochNess]

17. Oh, that's right...

unless gun control is done solely by us Democrats, its better to have criminals on the streets than have effective programs in place. Man, what was I thinking!

[MrBenchley]

26. Who the hell are you trying to kid?

What effective program? All this stupidity did was move the prosecution from the state level to the Federal level to pad the Federal stats. There's no claim made that this did any damn thing else.

And the cherry on top of this sundae is that it's such a hotshit program that it's being cut by $70,000 next year! Yay-y-y-y-y-y-y!!

[MrSandman]

42. It worked in 1997-98

see post 41

[MrBenchley]

24. He makes no such claim, fly

All Iglesias is claiming is that Federal prosecutions are up.

[Superfly]

29. Read:

"We are taking the most violent gun-carrying felons off of the streets and sending them to federal prison," Iglesias said.

[MrBenchley]

33. Too TOO funny...

Tell us fly, did you think New Mexico officials were throwing them parades before?

There's not a word in there about cutting crime...and with good reason. All the program did was shift state cases to Federal court, to beef up AshKKKroft's statistics and confuse people not following the issue closely into thinking the corrupt turd was doing something about guns.

[Superfly]

36. Once again...

""We are taking the most violent gun-carrying felons off of the streets and sending them to federal prison," Iglesias said."

Read, "we are arresting violent criminals and giving them federal sentences"

"All the program did was shift state cases to Federal court, to beef up AshKKKroft's statistics and confuse people not following the issue closely into thinking the corrupt turd was doing something about guns."
----That's pretty damned funny. Yeah, the ONLY reason this is going on is for some political gain, not because it's a good idea.

[MrBenchley]

39. You can spin until you're blue in the face, fly

There's nothing in the article about any drop in crime...and for good reason.

"Yeah, the ONLY reason this is going on is for some political gain, not because it's a good idea."
Yeah, fly, it's such a hotshit idea they're cutting the funding. <sarcasm>>Surely Republicans wouldn't do something that was all spin and no substance,....not the party that snuck pResident Turd into Baghdad airport on Thanksgiving Day to wave around a prop turkey that the carefully screened troops on hand weren't allowed to eat.