Gun sales hotter than a two dollar pistol...

[spin]

More Coloradans buy weapons in 2009 than ever before

GLENWOOD SPRINGS, Colorado — Colorado residents are exercising their Second Amendment rights in record numbers.

Gun sales surged to a new high before President Barack Obama took office in January 2009. One year later, gun sales surpassed the record set in 2008, despite the recession's strong grip.

***snip***

Sure to follow any increase is a decrease. And local dealers say that they are expecting to see a decrease in sales very soon. According to Edward Wilks, owner of the Tradesman in Rifle, 2009 guns sales were through the roof, but the market is beginning to cool down to pre-Obama levels.

“It was just nuts,” Wilks said.

In Wilks' opinion, there was a huge spike in demand before Obama took office, and supplies diminished, which created the surge. And now the market is equalizing out, he said.

***snip***

However, Wilks said that he's seen a transition from people interested in purchasing firearms leading up to the 2008 elections, to people focusing more on educational and training courses to learn the proper use of the weapon. And, he said, courses like the Concealed Carry Permit course that he offers have become very popular.

And the majority of people buying guns from Wilks, and who are signing up for personal protection courses, are women, he said.

The switch
Where before Wilks would have 12 students a month enrolled in the personal protection courses he offers, he is now seeing upwards of 36 students a month. And the big switch is that where the dozen or so were predominantly men, the overwhelming majority are now women, he said.

“A lot of women are buying the firearm, getting the training, and now we see them getting the permit to carry them,” Wilks said.emphasis added


http://www.postindependent.com/article/20100215/VALLEYNEWS/100219932/-1/RSS

[X_Digger]

1. Good for Coloradoan's (Coloradans? Coloradoites?)!! n/t

[Abq_Sarah]

2. I'm seeing more women in my classes

Because as the economy tanks, crime increases. When your neighbor's home is robbed, you start thinking about some sort of self defense.

[spin]

21. My daughter has been encouraging her female friends to...

get a carry permit. Most own a handgun and carry it loaded in their cars. (legal in Florida.)

I suspect as more and more women get CCW permits, the number of women who carry will increase dramatically. Rather than having an Avon party, the girls might get together for a day at the range.

And I could suggest that a woman looking for a chance to meet some really nice guys might find a shooting range a better spot than a bar or a grocery store.

[onehandle]

3. Scary black President is coming to get you or your guns.

Buy more guns.

Teabagger syndrome is driving gun sales.

[Abq_Sarah]

4. Funny

I don't see anyone mentioning race.... except you.

[onehandle]

5. 'President Barack Obama' is, I believe, mentioned.

Teabagger syndrome is driving gun sales.

[Abq_Sarah]

9. No, it's not

I live in a rural area..blue county. Gun ownership isn't an ideological issue except with people that move from cities and try and tell us how backward we are while they're employing private armed guards to respond to their burglar alarms.

[TheWraith]

34. +100.

I live in a very rural area of New York. Around here almost everybody owns guns, Dems and Reps alike. People from the urban and suburban areas don't seem to appreciate that fact.

[X_Digger]

10. And you read race into a comment related to electing a Democratic president?

..especially when the last Democratic president signed a gun ban into law?

Noo, gotta be about race.

Right.

pfft.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. Obama has an extremely strong anti-gun record.

Don't you think that might have something to do with it? Not everything is about race.

[spin]

23. While that is true, he comes from one of the most anti-gun cities

and states in the country.

If he would have been a pro-gun Democrat in Chicago, he would have been lucky to get elected dog catcher.

[spin]

16. A lot of the sales increase was caused by fear of both Obama and the...

majority of Democrats in both houses of Congress.

Democrats have embraced draconian gun laws for years. Their position has caused many close elections to be lost to Republicans who oppose gun control laws. But Republicans are no real friends of gun owners and will sell them out at the slightest opportunity. The problem is that gun owners tend to forget this.

The anti-gun position of many in the party has been and will continue to be a ball and chain that our party has to drag along.

Times are changing. Democrats in leadership positions are beginning to realize that their opposition to firearms and gun owners has an enormous price. Still, it will take years to overcome the distrust that gun owners have toward Democrats. One mistake such as pushing for another useless "Assault Weapons" bill will cause many gun owners to return to being single issue voters.

If the Democrats focus on reducing gun crime by targeting criminals rather than honest citizens, they could significantly reduce firearm violence and gain voter support among gun owners.

Racist fears of Obama have little to do with this. The fear was that the Democratically controled Congress would be able to push through any agenda they choose and oppressive gun control would be high on the list. The reality is that our party seems unable to usefully use its overwhelming majority to accomplish ANY of our goals let alone new gun control laws.

edited to add comment

[onehandle]

18. Let's just build more prisons.

Where have I heard that before...

[spin]

19. Actually many of the people who are currently in prision...

are serving time for drug related crimes. We need to end our war on drugs and legalize some drugs to take the profit motive out of dealing.

Some of these prisoners could be released and room made for the violent criminals who endanger society.

All too often a criminal with a lengthy violent felony record is caught with an illegal firearm. The charge is plea bargained down or the criminal gets a slap on the wrist. He continues to carry a firearm and eventually ends up killing someone with it.

Finally the legal system gets serious. Unfortunately, an unnecessary tragedy has occurred.

[TheWraith]

35. If someone got the same penalty for carrying an illegal gun as they did for a pound of weed or coke

Then we might see some headway made on putting away actual VIOLENT offenders.

[Katya Mullethov]

41. What could be more emboldening than be allowed to commit murder

And then get out of jail when you turn 18 ?

[SteveM]

49. Who said this? Even many GOP candidates are backing off that line...

Here in Texas, there have been severe cutbacks all out of proportion to the economic decline; typical right-wing governor. And some prisons have been padlocked or maintain skeleton staffs, and the political "appeal" of lock 'em up attitudes is embarrassingly expensive. No, you didn't hear that from around here.

[dashrif]

42. It

can't be that some have plans to hunt or target practice or maybe take part one of the thousands shooting sport contest like the one that just started yesterday in the outdoor group http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=271x1989 or maybe crime or people in our own party in 08-09 talking about new gun bans no it has to be the teabaggers next you will tell me the teabaggers are driving up gas prices around memorial day by burning crosses :eyes:

[spin]

46. I was just watching the Winter Olympics woman's biathlon ...

which combines shooting and skiing.

[gorfle]

54. Our could it be his very own words driving sales?

Teabagger syndrome is driving gun sales.

Or could it be President Obama's actual words prior to, and shortly after his election?

http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda/
"Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent."

Or the fact that firearm bans are currently part of the Democratic Party Platform?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/8a738445026d1d5f0f_bcm6b5l7a.pdf
"Firearms
We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we
will preserve Americans’ Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that
the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but we know that what works in
Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact and enforce commonsense
laws and improvements – like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background
check system, and reinstating the assault weapons ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of
terrorists or criminals. Acting responsibly and with respect for differing views on this issue, we
can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children
safe."

Or the fact that the last time we had a Democratic president we had an Assault Weapon Ban?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onehandle]

11. So the teabaggers aren't racist?

After all, only the liberal media uses that kind of reference.

[Abq_Sarah]

13. What's the point of this?

You come here and suggest people interested in self defense are nothing more than racists and now you're suggesting gun owners are "teabaggers"?

I think you've got issues.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onehandle]

17. I was referring to 'It seems that only gun control advocates use that kind of reference.'

I suggested an analogy with the teabaggers and the MSM's overlooking their racism as a handy reference.

[GreenStormCloud]

15. What does that have to do with guns?

[PavePusher]

38. I have not met any "teabaggers" who are racsists.

I assume there probably are some, but I haven't run into any.

Maybe your definition of "racsist" is a bit off-center?

[cowman]

55. There are alot of teabaggers

at my station and not one of them, repeat, not one of them is a racist. I may not agree with alot of their positions but I also think they are just well meaning people who are upset with both parties

[spin]

58. The midterm elections might be bad for incumbents. (n/t)

[cowman]

60. I do

believe you are correct

[aikoaiko]

40. The same phenonemon would have happened if Hillary Clinton or John Edwards won the presidency given

there stances on banning popular rifles, pistols, and shotguns in popular configurations (i.e., the AWB) and Democrats holding both houses.

The surge was about policy not race.

[beevul]

43. No. Obamas voting record on firearms as a senator is driving sales.N/T

[SteveM]

48. Another correction...

the big upswing in gun/ammunition sales started well before the "teabaggers" started brewing; unless you are into retrofitting stereotypes.

A More accurate assessment: both the DNC and President Obama's web sites still call for an expanded and PERMANENT "assault weapons" ban, a carbine platform-type now owned by 16+ millions Americans. Posting these positions for all to see is like driving through your neighborhood with your exhaust dragging and wondering why folks frown, go inside and slam the door.

[Tejas]

53. Scary white Senators too. (WTF is wrong with you?)

What does RACE have to do with this thread?
Is that all you got, the race-card?
Hmm, wait a second...is this the first time you've used the term "Scary black President" here in the Gungeon?

Again, is that all you got?

scary black, scary white....WTF is wrong with you?

[old mark]

6. From what I read here a large number of these new gun owners

are Democrats.

I really applaud that, and I hope they get training in safety and proficiency.

mark

[GreenStormCloud]

20. The point of the article is that more WOMEN are buying guns.

Of course, one ancedote does not make a trend, but I still found it interesting. Back in November my wife took her renewal class for her Concealed Handgun License. I tagged along, having nothing else to do that Saturday. The range was attached to a large gun store, as they usually are. While she was in the class, I observed some of the people who were buying guns. Some of them were women who were obviously ignorant of even the basics of handguns and were likely to be first-time gun buyers.

The class for first time CHL people had about 25% women. Four years ago, when she got her first CHL, she was the only woman in the class.

I think the increasing interest, by women, in guns for self-defense is a good thing.

[spin]

25. In our society, woman are all to often targets of violent crime...

if more and more women start carrying the victimization of females may drop dramatically.

I remember this event and the commentary at the time in the Tampa Fl newspapers:

Orlando, Florida had a long-standing rape problem. Then the police offered a highly publicized gun-training program for women. The result was a 76 percent decrease in rapes. (Washington Times, March 31, 2000.)
http://www.iwf.org/news/show/18350.html

Perhaps a better indicator is the apparent success of civilian firearms defense training. In 1968, after Orlando, Florida conducted a highly publicized shooting course for over 6,000 women, it became the only city with a population over 100,000, which showed a decrease in crime. Rape, aggravated assault, and burglary were reduced by 90%, 25 %, and 24% respectively. After a similarly publicized program for retail merchants in Highland Park, Michigan, armed robberies dropped from a total of 80 in a four-month period to zero in the succeeding four months. In Detroit, after grocers received firearms training and shot seven robbers, the number of armed robberies dropped by almost 90%.
http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Kates1.html

[Tim01]

24. Obama promised a ban on "assault weapons" and more.

I guess some people were expecting him to mean what he says.

Lots of places are seeing an uptic of female shooters/gun owners.

[proteus_lives]

26. It's great to see more women taking classes and defending themselves.

:thumbsup:

[Mike K]

27. While there undoubtedly are some -

- who are buying guns because they fear confiscation (which makes no sense), I believe most of the apparent panic buying is motivated by indications of serious economic problems ahead, which could lead to social upheaval and a massive increase in violent crime. I have no doubt that virtually all the guns being sold today are bought by cautious citizens who are motivated by legitimate concerns about social stability in the near future.

For most of the past century a significant number of Americans have allowed themselves to be lulled by the subliminally imparted notion that government is capable of protecting them and maintaining social stability and that the only thing they might need a gun for is hunting or target shooting. But the political and economic events of the past decade have dispelled that presumptive assurance.

[spin]

33. Some people also bought firearms as an investment...

and they hoped that Obama would push for gun bans and other draconian laws.

Guns, ammo and gold in bad times.

[Abq_Sarah]

47. Too true

All of my firearms have increased in value since I purchased them. The increases in the last year alone have been insane.

[Don Caballero]

28. America's rampant gun culture cannot and will not be able to sustain itself.

As more and more guns flood the streets, as the murder rate triples, quadruples, where does it end? Why do civilians need guns? It is the duty of the state to protect its citizens. Guns not only increase violence, they hamper police forces who always must wonder if a suspect is armed.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spin]

32. Hoplophobia ...

Hoplophobia from the Greek hoplon, or weapon, is defined as the "fear of firearms"<1><2><3> and as the "fear of armed citizens".<4>

Firearms instructor and writer Colonel Jeff Cooper claimed to have coined the word in 1962<5> to describe a "mental disturbance characterized by irrational aversion to weapons".<6> Although not a mental health professional, Cooper employed the term as an alternative to slang terms, stating: "We read of 'gun grabbers' and 'anti-gun nuts' but these slang terms do not (explain this behavior)." Cooper attributed this behavior to an irrational fear of firearms and other forms of weaponry. He stated that "the most common manifestation of hoplophobia is the idea that instruments possess a will of their own, apart from that of their user."<7> Writing in an opinion piece, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review columnist Dimitri Vassilaros asserted that the term was intended by Cooper as tongue-in-cheek.<8>

The meaning and usage ascribed by Cooper falls outside of the medical definitions of true specific phobias. For example, specific phobias require that the person be aware and acknowledge that their fear is irrational, and usually causes some kind of functional impairment. True medical phobias of firearms and other weapons can exist, but are unusual.<9>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (May 10, 1920 - September 25, 2006) was recognized as the father of what is commonly known as "the Modern Technique" of handgun shooting, and was considered by many to be one of the 20th century's foremost international experts on the use and history of small arms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper

[X_Digger]

30. "as the murder rate triples, quadruples"???

What planet are you from and how's the weather there?

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/cv2.cfm


(Note: homicide rates have continued to decline since 2002)


http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/firearmnonfataltab.cfm

[spin]

31. The Supreme Court ruled that police do NOT have a duty to protect...

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone

By LINDA GREENHOUSE
Published: June 28, 2005

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The decision, with an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia and dissents from Justices John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court in Colorado. The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman's pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed.

For hours on the night of June 22, 1999, Jessica Gonzales tried to get the Castle Rock police to find and arrest her estranged husband, Simon Gonzales, who was under a court order to stay 100 yards away from the house. He had taken the children, ages 7, 9 and 10, as they played outside, and he later called his wife to tell her that he had the girls at an amusement park in Denver.

Ms. Gonzales conveyed the information to the police, but they failed to act before Mr. Gonzales arrived at the police station hours later, firing a gun, with the bodies of the girls in the back of his truck. The police killed him at the scene.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

Don't count on the state or the local police for protection. You are responsible for your own safety.

There are plenty of good measures that you can take to defend yourself, not all involve owning a firearm. You can increase the security of your home by many simple measures including a good alarm system. You can build a safe room in your house. You can practice "situational awareness" when in public. You can carry pepper spray or take a self defense course.

A firearm is an excellent self defense tool for a home and a concealed carry permit allows you to equal the odds against an attacker on the street. Firearms are NOT for everybody, but can be a benefit for those willing to learn how to handle them safely and become proficient with their weapon.

While it does seem logical that more guns would equal an increase in the murder rate, statistics show otherwise. If that statement were true this graph would look much different as we have seen a dramatic increase in the number of firearms in our country in the last decade.

[TheWraith]

36. The violent crime rate has gone down by a third over the last 16 years.

Meanwhile the number of guns has gone up by 50%. Your facts are simply wrong. It has nothing to do with guns.

[one-eyed fat man]

37. The state has no duty to protect and you know it!

Because the police have no general duty to protect individuals, judicial remedies are not available for their failure to protect. In other words, if someone is injured because they expected but did not receive police protection, they cannot recover damages by suing Despite a long history of such failed attempts, however, many, people persist in believing the police are obligated to protect them, attempt to recover when no protection was forthcoming, and are emotionally demoralized when the recovery fails. Legal annals abound with such cases.

Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: "For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers."

The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." There are many similar cases with results to the same effect.

Go and research these cases before you again tell the LIE that the state is obligated to protect anyone.


Riss v. City of New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579, 293 NYS2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. Ct. of Ap. 1958)

Keane v. City of Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1968)

Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1983)

Calogrides v. City of Mobile, 475 So.2d 560 (S.Ct. A;a. 1985)

Morris v. Musser, 478 A.2d 937 (1984)

Davidson v. City of Westminster, 32 C.3d 197, 185 Cal.Rptr. 252, 649 P.2d 894 (S.Ct. Cal. 1982)

Chapman v. City of Philadelphia, 434 A.2d 753 (Sup.Ct. Penn. 1981)

Weutrich v. Delia, 155 N.J. Super 324, 326, 382 A.2d 929, 930 (1978)

Sapp v. City of Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla.Ct. of Ap. 1977)

Simpson's Food Fair v. Evansville, 272 N.E. 2d 871 (Ind.Ct. of Ap.)

Silver v. City of Minneapolis, 170 N.W.2d 206 (S.Ct. Minn. 1969)

Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 61 (7th Cir. 1982).

[PavePusher]

39. The murder rate has been trending downwards for some time.

But you knew that.

Come back when you can prove that any up-tick is directly related to increased legal gun ownership, and not socio-economic issues.

Cheers!

[Tim01]

44. The murder rate is going down and you are pissed at guns.

I can't see how you actually care about murders.

[beevul]

45. Look, Don...

"As more and more guns flood the streets, as the murder rate triples, quadruples, where does it end?"

Actually the murder rate is going downward, IIRC, in spite of near record breaking firearm sales.

Your explanation for this is?


"Why do civilians need guns?"


Not to be impolite, but thats simply none of your fucking business.


"It is the duty of the state to protect its citizens."

It is FIRST the duty of the state to function within its own framework, which is constructed with combination of powers granted to it by we the people and restrictions placed upon it by we the people.

Theres this list of them(restrictions), see, called the bill of rights.

Read it some time. Particularly the preamble.

[SteveM]

50. You said this before and were corrected before...

The state and its police forces ARE NOT charged with the duty of protecting you against criminals. The evidence is hard and crystal clear. You REFUSE to recognize the court cases which affirm this necessarily limited law enforcement role.

[GreenStormCloud]

51. I think you may have been misinformed.

As more and more guns flood the streets, as the murder rate triples, quadruples, where does it end?
Guns sales are sharply up, and the murder rate is down. It hasn't tripled, or quadrupled, but has instead been cut in about half since 1994.

It is the duty of the state to protect its citizens.
The SCOTUS has ruled several times that it is not the duty of the state to protect citizens.

Guns not only increase violence,
Violent crime is down, markedly.

they hamper police forces who always must wonder if a suspect is armed.
A cop always treats a person is if they were armed until he knows otherwise, even before the modern CCW increase. And the person could be armed with a knife, club, or even a bad dog. All the law enforcement officers that I personally know are in favor of law-abiding citizens being armed.

[slackmaster]

52. Chicken Little Fallacy - The numbers do not support your fears, Don Caballero

Murder rates are not increasing.



Gun ownership was more common in the 1950s, when homicide rate was at a low point.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/hmrt.cfm

[aliendroid]

57. violent crime has dropped since 1991, so you are wrong.

I'm looking at this graph right here and noticing that you are wrong.

[sharesunited]

61. The first step is to close the gun stores. Turn guns and ammo into collectibles.

[aliendroid]

56. record high gun sales, lower crime rates.

I think this pretty much blows away any anti-gun argument out there.

[spin]

59. It defies logic but the statistics show it to be true. (n/t)