In accordance with the DU Administration's recent push for civility...

[krispos42]

...we've decided that the terms "gun-grabber", "gun-nut", "gun worshipper", and similar terms will no longer be tolerated on DU, as they are not really terms that encourage civility, but do foster derision.

Skinner posted in GD a thread about civility and the new alert-discussion system the board moderators are now using in this thread for your information.

Please don't use such terms, and if you see them being used (from this point forward... I'm really not in the mood to go scrubbing the entire Forum), please alert on them.


Thank you,
Krispos42, on behalf of the DU admins and mods.

[TheWraith]

1. FINALLY!

Thank the gods.

[safeinOhio]

25. No

Thank the Mods.

[Cirque du So-What]

2. Well, that takes care of the gungeon

but how about the rest of us who are subjected to blanket insults against baby boomers & people from southern states on a daily basis? If the squeaky wheel gets the grease, do we need to amp-up our complaints or what?

[krispos42]

3. Hit the alert button.

We routinely remove regional smears, for example.

EVERYTHING that gets alerted on gets looked at. It really does.

[TheWraith]

4. That being the case, I alone must keep you folks hopping. nt

[krispos42]

5. I have no comment.

:hide:

[Political Heretic]

77. baby boomers?

:wtf:

[rd_kent]

6. Fuck yeah!!!! [phone]

But what will the anti-second amendment folks even have to say anymore?

[TPaine7]

8. Are penis references forbidden also?!! The sky is falling!!!! n/t

[rd_kent]

9. I sure hope so....

[taurus145]

81. BUT!

I like penis references - when it's MY wife referring to MY penis. :evilgrin:

[krispos42]

12. We discussed it in the Hot Tub

After we turned the jets off so we didn't have to shout anymore, we decided that those are sexist comments and should be alerted on so they can be removed.

And now, back to the bubbles and the booze...

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tridim]

18. "anti-second amendment folks" is a blanket smear.

99% of the people here support the second amendment, and all ammendments.

It's bullshit every time you say it.

[TheWraith]

20. When you talk about banning firearms, restricting who can own them, getting rid of guns...

... that's generally not pro-second-amendment.

[tridim]

21. Nice how you lumped "getting rid of guns" in with restrictions.

That's bullshit too.

All Constitutional rights have restrictions.

[eqfan592]

24. Indeed they do....

...but many of the people that are being referred to here are in favor of a level of restriction that would almost certainly result in an unnecessary impedance of the ability for the majority of people to exercise their rights. This is where they cross the line into the "anti-second amendment" group.

I'm not trying to say that every person who favors this or that restriction is automatically anti-second amendment; that's not being fair nor realistic. But you also have to be realistic and understand that the number of people who favor many of the gun control measures that are hot topics (like assault weapons bans) but are also what a reasonable person would call "2nd amendment supporters" isn't even close to 99%.

[Tejas]

30. Not familiar with DC's ban are we? nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

32. "shall not be infringed"

if restrictions infringe at all... then that is anti-2A.

[rd_kent]

31. No its not. Its a term that accurately describes what your viewpoint is: anti-2A

You want to nullify the Second Amendment, hence the term anti-second amendment. Seem both accurate AND civil...much better than gun-grabber.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[krispos42]

34. That would probably depend on context.

It can be a description or a smear. If it looks smeary (is that even a word???) alert on it and mention that you think it's a broadbrush smear in the "Reason" section.

[Skinner]

40. I tend to agree that "Anti-2nd amendment folks" is a loaded term.

At the moment, I'm not instructing the mods to delete it. But it does seem apparent that this is against the spirit of what we are tying to do.

Please forgive me for not following these discussions closely. The moderators and I have a question which will help us make a decision here:

What do supporters of gun control call themselves? Should we just use terms like "Gun control advocates" or "Gun control supporters"? Or is there another term by which gun control supporters prefer to be called?

While I'm here, I suppose I should also ask supporters of gun rights what sort of short-hand name(s) they prefer.

Is it okay to simply use the shorthand "Pro-gun people" and "Anti-gun people"? That seems simplest to me.

(To be clear, I don't want to start some kind of absurd language witch-hunt here. Because if we go down that road I'm going to just throw up my hands and say "screw this" and let you go back to calling each other "gun grabbers" and "gun nuts." Some input from people on either side of this debate regarding what names are considered acceptable would be helpful to everyone involved.)

[krispos42]

43. There are some members that are anti-2nd-amendment

They honesty think it is outdated and harmful and should be repealed, much like the 18th Amendment.

However I think most members fall into either the "more regulation" or "less regulation" opinion camps, and that the former does not make them anti-2nd-amendment but rather proponents of good government.

[GreenStormCloud]

45. Maybe call each other "MoreReg" and "LessReg".? N/T

[paulsby]

78. i find the double standard interesting

people who argued for more restrictions on abortion rights would be called ANTI-choice here

people who argue for more restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms though, shouldn't be called anti-2nd amendment or anti-gun rights?

people who argue against marriage equality would be called bigots. (although some people hedged when it was pointed out this makes obama a bigot)


note that the latter is specifically entrenched by an (the 2nd one!) amendment to the constitution

the 1st, at least from the legal (not the policy) angle is based on interpretation and penumbras

for the record, i am both pro-choice and pro-rkba.

[rd_kent]

83. Thats correct.

Does seem like a double standard.

As it stands, the Second Amendment is written AND has been interpreted to mean the INDIVIDUAL right to bear arms. I think the Pro-choice/anti-choice analogy is spot on.

One is either in favor of the Second Amendment (pro-2A), as it has been interpreted, or one is against it(Anti-2A). I do not see how calling it like it is is a negative thing.

[GreenStormCloud]

44. Wow. I started a thread on exactly that question.

I am a gun-rights supporter, and for me, the term "gunnie" is acceptable. However, I do not claim to be able to speak for everybody. Personally, I am not bothered by being called a "gun nut", but I am bothered by insults being used as a substitute for dialogue. A prime example of that is the accusation that we are using guns as penis substitutes. Krispos has already addressed that.

[Euromutt]

48. Some observations on my part

Not that I don't appreciate that you and the moderators are trying to walk a thin and somewhat tortuous line here, but certain caution should be exercised in clamping down on any label that doesn't carry the approval of the people to whom it's applied.

Framing the debate by trying to impose one's own vocabulary on it is a well established political tactic. The obvious example is the abortion debate, in which those who favor outlawing abortion style themselves "pro-life," partly because it implies that their opponents are "anti-life," and partly because being "pro-" something sounds so much nicer than being "anti-" something. If you were to require that in any debate concerning abortion, the anti-choice side could only be referred to as "pro-life" because that's the term they themselves prefer, you're skewing the debate slightly in their favor.

I think a balance needs to be struck between, on the one hand, unfair and emotive characterizations of the opposing side and, on the other, unflattering but accurate characterizations. Just because the receiving party doesn't like the description applied to him doesn't mean it's pejorative, or at least, not gratuitously so. (E.g. someone who claims to be concerned about illegal immigration, but in practice only seems to be bothered by it when it concerns brown- or black-skinned people might fairly be characterized as "racist," even though that person himself might not like to be told that.)

While I'm here, I suppose I should also ask supporters of gun rights what sort of short-hand name(s) they prefer.

I like "pro-RKBA" (Right to Keep and Bear Arms). Bearing in mind what I've said above, I think it's a fair description of the position without unfairly glorifying the position or denigrating those who don't share it.

[spin]

56. "Pro-RKBA " is quick and easy to type but ...

many lurkers who are unfamiliar with the issue might not understand the meaning. What we say has to be easily understood by visitors if we want to attract them enough to post on gun related issues.

Supporters of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms can do a lot on this forum to gain supporters for our cause. If nothing else we can educate people that the term "assault weapon" in no way means a weapon capable of full auto fire. It is not a military weapon. Or we can show by statistics that allowing honest citizens to legally carry concealed weapons does not turn a state into the Wild West with shootouts at high noon and at every traffic intersection.

Overcoming the propaganda distributed by the people who oppose gun ownership is a worthwhile cause in my opinion.

[spin]

54. Pro-gun people and anti-gun people works for me ...

Gun control advocates or gun control supporters also work but requires more typing.

The term "gun nut" doesn't bother me one bit, but "gun enthusiast" might be a more politically correct and accurate description.

Actually, I don't get insulted very easily and when the anti-gun person who is arguing with me starts insulting the length of my private parts and saying that I use guns to compensate, I just laugh and figure that I'm winning the discussion as they have chosen to resort to hitting below the belt in desperation.

It takes a lot to anger me (which is fortunate since I have a concealed carry permit and carry). Words or names in internet posts have no effect at all. In real life I have to have the ability to ignore face to face insults and profanity and just walk away, even if it makes me look cowardly.

But I can see advantages in an environment that promotes civil discussion. Such a sub-forum might attract more posters and we could have a better exchange of ideas.

[gorfle]

66. On proper terminology.

Is it okay to simply use the shorthand "Pro-gun people" and "Anti-gun people"? That seems simplest to me.

This is what I tend to say, except I tend to use the word "folks" for "people", and usually "firearm" instead of "gun".

I believe it is generally a truism that people who are anti-firearm are anti-second amendment, but I typically just say "anti-firearm" as it is simpler to type and even people who don't know what the second amendment is understand it.

I do wish the word "hoplophobe" was allowed here, because I genuinely believe many anti-firearm attitudes demonstrated hear evolve directly from an irrational fear of firearms. But, I suppose we can continue to type out, "so-and-so has an irrational fear of firearms".

Thank you for your interest in this forum.

[taurus145]

82. Whatever you choose is fine with me, BUT

This is a political message board. Politics are neither a clean nor a a polite business. Thick skin is the first requirement for anyone who is politically active.

I'm the first to admit that I've slipped from time to time when angered by fallacious posts or posts that are outright asinine. I've also been attacked on other boards (and probably this one and don't recall it), but let it slide as simply part of the political discussion process.

Try running for office. I have. Before it was over, you'd have thought I'd napalmed the county and eaten human babies for breakfast - raw.

In short, we need to spend more time working toward our goals and less looking for the merest hint of offense. Please do not take this as advocating uncivil discourse. Some semblance of order is necessary. Obvious and intentional disruption must be dealt with.

We all have our, "Aw shit! I shouldn't have said that moments," on DU and elsewhere, but what is lively discussion without the occasional hard line slip?

In short, I may get called many things, some of which get my goat, but at the end of the day I prefer my user name or Steve. I'm not going to cry foul either way if something outrageous is said in the heat of the moment.

[NewMoonTherian]

88. I move to keep the restrictions minimal.

(I'll preface this by saying I'm pro-gun, so you'll have to forgive me if my examples betray my bias)

I'd move to throw out "gun-nut" and "gun grabber". "Gun worshipper" is another popular one. I've also seen some pretty creative epithets of late that I don't think are productive(from both sides). I actually found "gun totemists" kind of clever. I've seen "gun humpers" more than once. I don't see anything wrong with pro- and anti-RKBA. In turn, pro- and anti-proliferation are terms I can live with. Anything not obviously meant as a smear should be fair game. "Hoplophobia" or "hoplophobic" are sometimes used in a clinical context, but "hoplophobe" sometimes gets tossed around in a mocking fashion, so that's one that bears discussion by wiser heads than myself.

[Major Hogwash]

92. Well, it can only go straight downhill from here. Make out a list and submit it.

That would be my suggestion. I know that after 8 years of George Bush running the country into the ditch, nothing could be as offensive to a liberal's sensibilities than being told they can't use a popular phrase or saying on a forum anymore.

After hearing that Rahm Emmanuel referred to Democrats as "fucking retards", I'm not a bit surprised that this type of suggestion has even come up.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewMoonTherian]

102. Yeah, I was never terribly bothered by the names anyway.

And a list of specific terms isn't going to be effective. Skinner asked, so I tried to come up with the stuff that seems to degenerate the conversation.

My suggestion: Grow some thicker skin, guys.

[paulsby]

118. if people can call people "anti-choice"

because they don't support the "right" of a 13 yr old to get an abortion w/o parental notification, then i think calling somebody anti-second amendment who questions the right of people to keep and bear arms in public places is MORE than reasonable

[onehandle]

7. Excellent!

Ask Skinner if he got my other request.

[rd_kent]

10. What is that? To ensure a poster has a point when posting anecdotal stories?

To ensure a poster leaves a comment explaining why a certain story was posted in the first place?

[safeinOhio]

11. Thanks a million Kris

I was wondering about this in the gun room. Score a big win for civility. I've noticed a lot of low post, no star posters that lack civility there. Hope they have luck looking for a new place.

[bossy22]

14. good move

i always preferred the terms "pro-gun control" and "anti-gun control"

[GreenStormCloud]

15. Outstanding.

In the long run (Actually fairly quickly), I predict that this will lighten the workload of the mods. The uncivil posters will see their posts vanish quickly and will either become civil or just go away. We can have discussions instead of flame wars.

[gorfle]

16. Thank you moderators! n/t

.

[oneshooter]

17. Well I am a"low post, no star poster" who tries to be civil,

but it is TRULY difficult to do at times.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[WheelWalker]

19. A 'no star' from Texas just doesn't seem right, somehow.

But it is a personal choice.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tim01]

23. That figures.

Just when I was getting used to how incredibly rude and disrespectful some people here are. Oh, well, I'm sure I will adjust again. Probably the insults will just become something that hasn't been banned yet.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. This is going to be fun! I admire the work you'll do. I will behave in accordance with your request.

[Euromutt]

29. I'll go along with what Dave said...

... and try to be a good boy. I don't like the term "gun grabber" anyway, so it's no huge sacrifice.

[pipoman]

27. Good decision

[slackmaster]

28. I take it that "gun-grabbing monkey" is right out, then

K&R

:kick:

[Glassunion]

33. Well that is just (EDIT)ing great!

What the (EDIT) am I supposed to do when one of those (EDIT)-(EDIT)ing lousy (EDIT)s gets all indignant and starts (EDIT)ing spouting off like some loser piece of (EDIT)? Does this include when (EDIT) is not making any sense and is (EDIT) all over the place, and I really want to (EDIT), and put my (EDIT) up his (EDIT) and pull my (EDIT)-(EDIT)ing to (EDIT) off his (EDIT)? I'll show (EDIT) what kind of a (EDIT)-(EDIT)er they are (EDIT)ing with. This is (EDIT)!

Wait... What were we talking about?

:sarcasm:

[Major Hogwash]

35. "Word nazis kill communication at the DU forum". That's the headline today.

"Gun nut" is a perfectly acceptable term among progressives, krispos.
You should grow a thicker skin if you don't like seeing it.

[pipoman]

36. "Those incapable of civil discussion stifled on DU" is the headline

[rd_kent]

38. +1

[GreenStormCloud]

39. And "gun-grabber" is a perfectly acceptable term among armed progressives.

But those terms, "gun nuts" and "gun-grabbers" are pejoratives that indicate that the user already made up their mind and is closed towards the other sides arguments. A person who uses those terms is not wanting to discuss, but to attack the other side.

So let's all agree to put away the insults and talk to each other. Logic and reason can accomplish wonders.

[krispos42]

41. I'm not the decider, I'm the messenger

Skinner asked for a gungeon mod to make a statement on this, I happened to be on duty at the time, and so I made the OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7623624#7626479

My skin is quite thick enough, thanks. :-)

[Major Hogwash]

59. And how many of my posts will be deleted out of this discussion this time?

I'm a Democrat, after all.

You didn't used to be a gungeon mod. How old are you?

[krispos42]

61. None so far, so am I, I moderate all Small Forums*, and 33.

*except I/P and 9/11.


:-)

[Major Hogwash]

62. How many guns does one have to own to be considered a gun nut?

Since I own some firearms, I could be considered to be a gun nut by others that post at DU.
I think it is wrong to limit speech based on someone's ego.
I'm curious how many other terms at DU will be considered "uncivil".
I've been down this road before on other forums.
It doesn't stop here, it's like a cancer that grows until all discussion is constricted to either saying "Aye" or "No".

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

65. Whose ego do you think this is based on?

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jeepnstein]

42. Hooray!

Chalk one up for civility.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. This should probably remained kicked to keep people out of trouble.

[MisterBill45]

49. Serious question

I refer to MYSELF as a "gun-nut" or Gunnie all the time. Am I gonna get banned for that?

[Tim01]

51. If they can't use it, we probably should try to avoid it, too.

Just my opinion of course. I don't think there is anything wrong with gunnie, yet. "Second amendment supporter" is a freakin mouthful, though.

[X_Digger]

52. Whatever term is chosen, it'll be acronym'd

.. and then someone will come up with a smarmy interpretation of the acronym and start using it as a pejorative.

"Second Amendment Supporter" becomes SAS which someone will call "Stupid Ass Shooter" and then we'll get to lather, rinse, and repeat all over again.

[Tim01]

53. DAMN! That was impressive.

Seriously, I couldn't have figured out that phrasing if my life depended on it, and I had a week.

If you think of something equally cool for the antis,please, PM it to me. I promise not to use it on THIS board.

[X_Digger]

55. PM Sent ;)

[rrneck]

57. Uh,

How about discussing the issues instead of the people that support them?

[MisterBill45]

58. Please don't censor free speech

Sorry, I posted this before in the wrong thread.

Everyone should grow a skin.

This is an extremely controversial, emotional topic. Ad Homs are going to get thrown here and there and "offensive" words are going to get used. It's the way of human critters.

Censoring words or names is IMO a very bad idea. Come on guys, WTF we're the LIBERALS fer cryin out loud! We should be the grownups, which means sticks and stones etc.

Go ahead and offend me! I'll get over it. I'll tell you I'm offended, and if I'm able to call you on it with some eloquence, you'll either be shamed into stopping it, be labeled a troll or in the end, get banned for being a jerk.

I'm absolutely opposed to censoring "hate speech" or anything other such thing. It's an illiberal notion that promotes people's precious little feewings over the principle of free expression. It stands opposed to centuries of enlightenment ideals and makes hypocrites of anyone who calls themselves a liberal and supports such a notion. Voltaire would be ashamed of us!

Define what's uncivil. Go ahead, try to do so. It's an inherently subjective standard that has no value beyond preserving people's feelings who are too childish to cope with contrary views expressed in a way they don't like. Guess what? No one has a right not to be fucking offended.

I'm offended all the time. All I have to do is listen to talk radio for 5 seconds or most days, just turn on the TV. Somehow I manage to avoid slitting my wrists.

Intentionally starting a flame war or using an ad hom IN PLACE of an argument is one thing. Using a term like gun-nut? Guess what? I consider myself a gun-nut. Feel free to call me one all day long. You can call me a gun-crazy or an asshole while you're at it. I'll consider the source and MOVE THE FUCK ON.

I know it's hard to mod a forum. But CONTENT, not word choices, should determine civility. I try to be respectful of others even when I disagree with them but I'm not always going to meet that mark. I don't expect you will either, regardless of the topic.

I am a grownup and can handle words and labels I don't like. I grant you the same respect.

We aren't children here. Mods, I ask you to please reconsider.

Respectfully,

Bill

[rusty_rebar]

60. +1000

Thank you Bill. Could not have said it better myself.

[Euromutt]

63. Uncivil word choice and uncivil content tend to go hand in hand

I'll tell you I'm offended, and if I'm able to call you on it with some eloquence, you'll either be shamed into stopping it, be labeled a troll or in the end, get banned for being a jerk.

Well, there's the thing, isn't it? What grounds are there for banning someone if said person hasn't transgressed any rule? That way, banning can come of as awfully arbitrary.

Intentionally starting a flame war or using an ad hom IN PLACE of an argument is one thing.

In practice, that's what generally happens, though; somebody throws out a comment like "typical grabber, siding with the criminals against the citizens" or "I think this sums up the paranoia and magical thinking of gun totemists," which doesn't add anything of value to the discussion, and fairly frequently distracts everyone in the thread into a schemozzle over whether the choice of wording was justified.

But CONTENT, not word choices, should determine civility.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. But as I posted in the subject line, a post that is uncivil in wording is generally also uncivil--and not much else--in its message. Any post that has to resort to characterizations like "sexually inadequate gun-fetishizing coward" or "condescending victim-disarming statist" generally don't have much to bring to the party other than the expression of contempt.

[Skinner]

64. Um, hate to break it to you, but we crossed that bridge nine years ago.

If you are looking for an unmoderated discussion forum experience, there are thousands of other places you can go on the Internet for that.

[onehandle]

70. Did you get my request? nt

[Name removed]

71. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Major Hogwash]

86. So, do you own any guns, Skinner?

Don't you live in Washington D.C.?

What some of the others call "the murder capital" of the United States.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

96. New Orleans currently holds that distinction by quite a bit.

[Major Hogwash]

87. I have one other question, Skinner.

Do you think most Democrats are pro gun or anti gun?

[gorfle]

67. No, I disagree.

The reason why I disagree is simply this:

The facts of the second amendment debate invariably end up supporting the right to keep and bear arms, and in the end, the anti-firearm folks are often reduced to insult and innuendo.

By removing insult and innuendo from the debate, we can concentrate on the facts of the debate, and let those facts stand for themselves.

It's not about having a thick skin. It's about increasing the signal-to-noise ratio for the topic at hand.

[Euromutt]

72. Well put

It's about increasing the signal-to-noise ratio for the topic at hand.

Yes, that is exactly it; thank you for wording it so succinctly.

[frebrd]

120. I agree, Bill! Thank you! n/t

[NV Whino]

68. If you outlaw "gun nut"

are you going to outlaw "car nut"? Or "sports nut"? "Computer (PC/Mac) nut"?

If you outlaw gun nut, will only outlaws will have nuts?

[michreject]

69. Can we include the penis slurs

That are an infamous knock on gun ownership?

[krispos42]

73. See #12 n/t

[michreject]

75. Thanks nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. They said so upthread.

[michreject]

76. I posted first

I should have read it all.

[GreenStormCloud]

79. I can already see an improvement here in the gungeon.

It has only been a few days, but the flame posts that were nothing but insults that started flame wars are drastically down in number.

Good job, Mods.

[Major Hogwash]

80. You've only been here 6 months though.

Man, this forum used to be a lot worse.

How many guns do you own?

[GreenStormCloud]

84. None of your business how many guns I own.

However, in the next few weeks I plan to buy three more.

[Major Hogwash]

85. Do you own any black rifles?

That's usually what gets these guys so riled.

[PavePusher]

89. All my firearms are currently wearing a finish in black.

And if they want to take my Eddystone, they'll have to send one more person than I have rounds of ammo.

And I'm saving up for an AR-10 or clone. But that will have at least two sets of furniture, one in a color to give Bloomburg a coronary.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

91. I mistakenly thought you had a sense of humor. My apologies.

I should know better than to speak when my betters are about. So sorry, m'lud.


P.S. Up yours.


Edit: Decided not to change a thing.

[Major Hogwash]

93. Since when did you think talking about guns was funny?

Did you think the war in Iraq was hilarious?
Do you think the war in Afghanistan is comical?

You realize they are using guns in those 2 countries, not tossing phrases like "gun nuts" at their targets!!

If you don't think speech is serious business when they are talking about limiting that speech, then what the hell are you even here for?

[PavePusher]

95. Congratulations.

You're the first person on the entire internet that I've ever put on ignore.


Good day to you.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

98. Your freedom of speech isn't being limited. If you don't like it here then go somewhere else.

Leave this place to people who support the entire Constitution.

[Major Hogwash]

99. Is your name Skinner now?

Didn't think so.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

100. I like having you here. I think you'd be fun to hang out with.

It's probably not good for you to get so riled up though. Relax everyone is just having fun.

[tburnsten]

110. I'd love a 20" A2 with green furniture

[Tim01]

101. Why do you care what guns we own? It's none of your business.

Do you also judge who should get married, and who gets an abortion?

[Major Hogwash]

103. I thought this was a gun forum, Timmy.

Geez, you might think before you post here.

[Tim01]

104. Again, why do you care? You going to answer the question or what? nt

[rd_kent]

105. Still waiting for the links to those 30 articles you posted 9 years ago.....

[Major Hogwash]

106. Are you in charge of anything here rd?

Didn't think so.

You can do your own homework and search for what you're looking for.

I didn't say I posted 30 articles here 9 years ago.
I never said that at all, ever.

[krispos42]

107. Kick n/t

[Euromutt]

109. Maybe a sticky of Guns forum etiquette is in order?

By which I mean something expounding on the general moderation policies as they are applied to the Guns forum in particular. Just a suggestion.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

111. As noted elsewhere, the term "gungeon" is IMO as derisive as "gun-grabber", "gun-nut", etc. and

should be banned throughout DU.

The very name "Guns forum" understates the true purpose of this forum which is to discuss pro and con views on the Second Amendment that SCOTUS says is a pre-existing individual right not dependent upon our Constitution for legitimacy.

Several suggestions since 2001 have been made to change the name from Guns forum but none have succeeded.

While Skinner is cleaning up the language he might reconsider changing the name so that it represents the true issue and at least recognizes Democratic leaders positions, one of which said "I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in people's lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away."

ON EDIT TO ADD "individual" right.

[The Green Manalishi]

113. Respectfully,

and as someone who likes, and agrees with most of your posts, I think "Gungeon" is a cool word, a neologism that has a cool ring to it. Just my opinion.

[jody]

114. Understand but if one reads GD posts one observes "Gungeon" used to disparage, demean pro-RKBA

Democrats.

All the words/phrases that are now banned on DU could have a loyal following who insist their term is not bad while subtly using it in ways that apparently led Skinner to impose a bit of civility on DU discussions.

My opinion is based on numerous exchanges in this forum since 2001 and I admire Skinner's efforts to allow exchanges on one of the most volatile, divisive, polarizing political issues.

[The Green Manalishi]

116. People of good will can disagree :-)

I see your point, of course. I'm quite happy to see most of the terms that have been banished gone.

Interesting how, once ad hominem and sexist penile references are disallowed, how very, very little those wishing to eliminate the RKBA have. They don't have facts, they don't have logic, they don't have historical precedence, tradition, the constitution, nor any respect for the rights of men and women to defend themselves from thugs and tyrants, on their side. They have only racism (albeit highly sublimated) , irrational emotion, ignorance, Richard Daley style elitism ('good for me but not for thee') and pathetically parroting the inaccurate, dishonest and Jim Crow based talking points of the Republican Brady group with which to try to argue.

[jody]

117. Agree and a belated welcome to DU. Keep cool, stick around, and stick to facts.

:hi:

[jody]

115. Addendum: anyone who wants to attack the 2nd Amendment as interpreted by SCOTUS & comes to the Guns

Forum armed with nothing but rants and speculation will face posts from pro-RKBA Dems armed with facts, history, and case law.

In most cases their parting post will be an ad hominem shot as they retreat.

[jazzhound]

123. For the record

I feel the term "gungeon" has a nice ring to it as well. I'm sure the hard-core antis probably dig it as well, as in........."To the GUNGEON with you, Neanderthal -- where you can comingle with your knuckle-dragging brethren".

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spin]

119. K&R for new posters. (n/t)

[DissedByBush]

121. I vote for banning "assault weapon"

Not the guns, the term.

Ain't no such thing except in the minds of those trying to infringe upon Second Amendment rights.

It's a made-up, pejorative term with no real-world application.

[jody]

122. Agree and I cringe whenever someone posts results from a poll re "assault weapons" when respondents

probably think it means "assault pistols" shown in violence movies not realizing that proposed laws banning such firearms would include popular firearms as the ubiquitous Remington 1100.

Such polls are often funded by anti-RKBA groups such as the Joyce and Annenberg foundations and approved by their anti-RKBA boards of directors.