Crime skyrockets in Washington, DC after Heller allows private handguns (read the details in the OP)

[TPaine7]

The Brady Campaign warned us about this. It's obvious that more handguns in the hands of ordinary citizens will lead to more murders and more violent crime.

This TRUTH is so obvious it hardly needs real-world evidence. But the gun worshippers won't accept obvious TRUTH; unfortunately for them, the data is in. It proves what we knew all along--more handguns = more crime.

Oops

The year is drawing to a close with homicides in the District at a 45-year low, reflecting a national trend that law enforcement officials are attributing to multipronged crime-prevention strategies that include advances in communication and coordination.

With just two days left in the year, according to preliminary numbers from the police department, the District has had 138 homicides compared with 184 at the same time last year, setting up the city to record the lowest number of homicides since 1964, when 132 were reported killed. Metropolitan Police Department officials attribute the decline to a "perfect storm" of crime-fighting strategies, including a new culture of communication within the police department.

"The level of involvement far surpasses anything I've ever seen," said Metropolitan Police Commander Daniel Hickson, a more than 30-year veteran of the department and former homicide detective. "To imagine we're at 138 is unbelievable."

...

The result this year has been a drop in violent crime and property crime. The sharpest drop was in homicides, at 25 percent, followed by a 16 percent decline in sexual assaults and a 10 percent decrease in car thefts.

Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/30/dc-homicides-hit-lowest-number-since-64/

Of course the politicians will take credit--that's their forte. And of course they won't mention the fact that the Second Amendment of the US Constitution was crammed down their throats. And I expect nary a peep from them or the Brady Campaign about the predicted mayhem.

[FLAprogressive]

1. Wonder how many people did a drive-by rec based on the title alone! lol.

[eqfan592]

2. LOL! (nt)

[Hoopla Phil]

10. How choice is that?! LOL

[Orrex]

3. It's a good thing that correlation equals causation.

[TPaine7]

4. Read the OP

Think about it.

My point is in perfect harmony with yours--more guns were not correlated with the predicted mayhem. I never claim that more guns caused the decline, simply that they did not cause the predicted increase.

[eqfan592]

5. No, it doesn't.

But this doesn't change the fact that the "blood running through the streets" type predictions from the Brady Campaign did not come to pass. This isn't surprising, as they've been consistently wrong on this issue. They've cried wolf so many times now most people aren't willing to buy into their crap anymore, which is why support for things like concealed carry continue to grow.

[GreenStormCloud]

6. But correlation does is strong evidence against reverse causation.

The prediction, as always, was that crime would skyrocket. Instead it fell. Therefore those who made the predictions need to retune their crystal balls.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. You're just trolling aren't you?

I mean, your sig is just too perfect.

[Statistical]

37. So it is your position that there is no causation between guns and crime?

Great that is all I need to here.

End all gun bans and other "feel good"/"do nothing" gun restrictions.

Woot! Funny when antis now think they are scoring points by saying there is no causation between guns and crime.

[sam sarrha]

7. it's because ammo is so hard to get, ordinary people can't kill each other.??

:shrug:

i've got a carry permit, and about 2000 rounds stored in a safe, my guns are in a finger touch lock gun safe, or on me, usually watching out for coyotes while the dogs are out pee'n, .. i've never robbed or killed anyone. the problem isn't guns, it is that 80% of the population processes 7% of the wealth in America.. thats right folks..F'n 7%... that's what i call wealth redistribution. not exactly what the ReThuglicans cry about.. they want more. they are a Cargo Cult, they believe that wealth is an indicator of gods favor of a man, and poverty is gods punishment for disfavor, so it's a sin to tax a rich man/corporation and a sin to help the poor.. tax cuts for the rich and cuts in so called "entitlements" for the poor, such as all 1930's New Deal improvements, like SSI, Medicare, etc..
they are mentally ill, they are OCD wealth hoarders.. they are out of control.

i go to the range every friday after work and target practice with each of my carry guns about 20 rounds. i buy in bulk, $0.22 a round. i was a parole officer, i've seen it all. it's best to be ready.

[TheWraith]

25. +100.

Very well said. Poverty is the biggest problem in America right now, and our biggest cause of violence.

[dashrif]

41. dude

don't put that much ammo in a safe what you have now can be a bomb this was a in wall safe



get something like this and padlock it if you store raw powder in it drill some holes in it and be safe I have several and they work and they are cheep http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/used-us-mil-81-mm-ammo-can.aspx?a=143109

[Better Today]

8. Rec'd AFTER reading for content.

[Hoopla Phil]

11. +1

[BigBluenoser]

20. I'm laughing.

+1

[spin]

9. The increase in the number of chainsaws didn't cause an enormous jump ...

in the number of chainsaw massacres.

The increase in the number of nail guns in civilian hands didn't correspond to an tremendous jump in the number of nail gun murders.

The increase in the number of firearms and concealed carry permits hasn't resulted in a big jump in violent crime.

[Ihaterush]

21. That chart show a big drop in crime in 1994; the year the assult weapon ban was put in effect.

[GreenStormCloud]

22. But gun sales increased in 1994.

And the AWB had only a cosmetic effect on guns. Function was not effected at all. Gun companies simply made minor modifications to their designs and kept on making them.

[SteveM]

24. More people own "assault weapons" than who hunt, in this country (nt)

[spin]

26. The assault weapons "ban" really didn't "ban" ...

AWB advocates and opponents alike stated that the AWB allowed firearms manufacturers to make minor changes to make their affected firearms legal, and they both described the features affected by the ban as "cosmetic".<4><5> Due to this, some gun-rights groups nicknamed the legislation the "ugly gun law."

The law banned certain feature combinations that many firearms experts considered to be arbitrary. Manufacturers complied with the law by removing the banned features while leaving the core functionality of the weapons intact. For this, they were criticized as attempting to circumvent the spirit of the law by many gun control groups and even by then-president Bill Clinton. Pro-gun groups responded by pointing out that the manufacturers made and sold exactly what was permitted, and that they could not be held to any standard higher than the law itself.

For example, the AB-10 was a legal version of the TEC-9, with barrel threading and barrel shroud removed; the XM-15 was a legal AR-15 without barrel threading or a bayonet mounting lug; post-ban semi-automatic AK-47s were also sold without folding stocks or bayonet lugs, and with standard or "thumbhole" stocks instead of pistol grips. As the production of large-capacity magazines for civilians had also been prohibited, manufacturers sold their post-ban firearms either with newly-manufactured magazines with capacities of ten rounds or less, or with pre-ban manufactured high-capacity magazines, to meet changing legal requirements.

***snip***

The law prohibited newly-manufactured detachable magazines with a capacity of more than ten rounds manufactured after enactment of the law from sale, transfer, or importation. One effect was the increased importation from other countries of large quantities of magazines manufactured before the ban. Former Warsaw Pact countries had large quantities of AK-47 magazines of various capacities that could fit a variety of both pre-ban and post-ban AK-47 variants. Existing stocks of pre-ban American-made magazines were likewise exempt from the ban; this resulted in a brief surge in domestic manufacture of high-capacity magazines before the law took effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban#Provisions_of_the_ban

Before the "ban" I knew very few shooters who owned or had any interest in owning an "assault weapon". After the ban, I was one of the few that just didn't have to have one. After the ban, assault weapons sold like hot cakes. And all the owners needed "hi-cap" magazines to increase firepower. They were very easy to obtain but very expensive.

All the assault weapons ban accomplished was to make an uncommon and unpopular style of rifle and transform it into one of the most popular and common rifles in the U.S. today. As more and more people bought these firearms, they began to realize just how superior they were in terms of accuracy and ease of handling. Today they are very popular target rifles and are manufactured in larger calibers suitable for deer hunting.

Shooting with each of these fine firearms was a pleasure. The AR-15 rifle system has proven itself in recent years to be an excellent platform for a varmint and target rifle. With practice and a good scope sight, accurate hits at several hundred yards are easy. The recoil is light, and the ergonomics of the AR system is almost perfect. The heavy barrels on these guns are free-floated for consistent accuracy. The flat top receivers are perfect for mounting a precision scope. I like to keep a heavy and a light AR around, but if I had to choose only one, I would keep a heavy. They are easier to shoot well at long range, have less muzzle blast, and greater velocity than a short barrel. For a fast shooting varmint gun, they cant be beat. For a police sniper rifle, the heavy AR is almost perfect. Where legal, they make a good deer rifle with the proper ammo in skilled hands. Follow-up shots on a running coyote are easier with a heavy AR than any other type of rifle.
http://www.gunblast.com/AR15_HBARs.htm

The popularity of these firearms is largely due to the efforts of the gun ban crowd. My thanks, you guys rock!

[X_Digger]

27. Look at sales of the AR-15 _during_ the ban..

[benEzra]

33. More "assault weapons" were sold 1994-2004 than in the previous 3 decades combined.

I bought my own civilian AK in 2003.

Here's what the ill-conceived 1994 Feinstein non-ban actually did:



That is a ban-era civilian rifle (non-automatic, fires once and only once when the trigger is pulled, like every other Title 1 civilian firearm made since 1934). It was manufactured and imported in 2002, during the non-ban, and I bought it in 2003 for $379. I bought the magazine in 2003 as well, for the princely sum of $9.99, and some smaller 20-rounders for $5.99 each.

Rifles, regardless of what they look like, have NEVER been a significant crime problem in the United States and aren't now. Rifles consistently account for around 3% of murders, and falling.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_20.html

Don't take my word for it; check out the "Rifles" column in that chart, and compare it to total murders.

[X_Digger]

35. Here's a nice chart of AR-15 production during the "ban"

[SteveM]

38. Also in 1994: I replaced my hot water heater and repaired my toilet.

Keep in mind "assault weapons" account for -3% of "gun deaths." Big impact, that "ban."

[PavePusher]

39. Question: Did the AWB actually decrease the number of such firearms...

in the hands of citizens or criminals? If it did not, then there can be no correlation.

And if you look closely, you should find that post-ban, more of those firearms were sold than ever before.

How does that correlate with a drop in crime?

In fact, did the number of crimes with such firearms rise or fall?

Come on, do your homework and show something that might actually support your implication.

[Callisto32]

43. No,

it shows the continuation of a steady decrease that began in 1991, three years BEFORE the ban.

[safeinOhio]

12. Could be because

a majority of Republican bureaucrats moved out of Washington and were replace with Democrats with the new administration. This has caused a big decline in hookers and mob figures. Drug dealers had to move or loose sales.
Hey makes sense to me.

[TPaine7]

13. Impressive spin! n/t

[PavePusher]

14. I don't think either party has a secure foothold...

on any moral or ethical high ground these days.

[safeinOhio]

16. Then you think Palin and Bachman

are right up there with Obama on the moral and ethical high ground? Recent Republican votes (30) for protecting rape is just one of many reasons I call myself a Democrat. The Republicans have shown that preaching morals is more important than having morals. The correlation I have drawn is as valid as any other on Washington crime rates.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. So you pick the far right wing to compare to a centrist whose defended the Bush administration...

at every turn. Probably not the best comparison.

[PavePusher]

18. I said 'party', did not specify individuals.

Stop attempting to put words in my mouth.

[safeinOhio]

23. But those two have a higher NRA rating that Obama.

So, if all 3 were running for President, which would you vote for?

[PavePusher]

42. Would there be a catgory for...

"What kind of idiot do the parties think I am?" and a write-in blank for Larry Niven?

[cowman]

29. Yeah well

lately we seem to be having our own ethical problems.but this if the wrong forum

[PavePusher]

40. I really don't think either party can claim any moral/ethical high ground...

when it comes to hookers, booze, pills and corruption.

But hey, whatever stereotype lets you sleep at night.

[Tim01]

19. "lowest number of homicides since 1964" nt

[SsevenN]

28. BLOOD IN THE STREETS

I guess not huh? who would have thought that allowing law abiding citizens to protect themselfs from violence, would result in a reduction of violence?

IT'S FUCKING CRAZY ISN'T IT?

[onehandle]

30. Gungeoneers love linking to the moonie times.

I wonder why?

[cowman]

31. So why

do you keep coming to this forum if you don't like guns?

[GreenStormCloud]

32. Do you dispute the statistics?

If you don't (They do come from the FBI) then what does it matter what paper carried the story?

[TPaine7]

34. Right wing fanatics like to use petty distractions to sidestep inconvenient facts.

I wonder why?

[Bold Lib]

36. Some just like to link to FOXnews. LMAO!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x299715

HaHaHaHa