'Cop Killer' Gun Used In Ft. Hood Shooting, Officials Said

[onehandle]

Source: ABC News

The gun thought to be used in the Fort Hood massacre packs so much firepower, it's known as 'the Cop Killer,' federal law enforcement officials said.

Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials, was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009. The store's manager, David Cheadle, said that particular firearm can hold 20 rounds in a standard clip and take a ten round clip extension. Cheadle said with one clip and one round in the chamber, one could fire 31 rounds before reloading.

On FN Herstal's webpage the benefits of the Five-seveN pistol note that it can "defeat the enemy in all close combat situations in urban areas, jungle conditions, night missions and any self defense action."

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cop-killer-gun-thought-ft-hood-shooting/story?id=9019521

---

Perfectly Legal

[Skittles]

1. "Guns Galore"

fucking says it all

[virgogal]

3. Ditto !

[Skittles]

5. it is a fucking mindset in this fucking state

:puke:

[Pavulon]

6. Its a pandemic, I mean 500 million people in the US

did NOT get shot today. We need to jump right on this. Right after we put a runway in the east river for airplanes to land on after they hit geese.

[Skittles]

8. 500 million? LOL

is that a statistic you pulled out of your gun nut ass?

[Pavulon]

15. 304,059,724 on my balls

that invalidates my point. carry on with you chicken little BS.

[Wabbajack_]

47. MANY more people are shot than involved in plane accidents

please don't minimize the needless national tragedy of gun violence.

[Euromutt]

50. Many more people are bitten by dogs than suffer gunshot wounds

Please don't minimize the needless national tragedy of canine violence.

[Tejas]

31. yep, despite haters of basic human rights

How's that Mao doctrine working out for ya?

[kenny blankenship]

12. Guns! Guns! Guns! All Blued Revue!

Guns that just left home!
Guns that are Barely Legal!
Guns that have never been fired!
Guns wanting to meet you!

Guns: they're like Truck Nutz - but for people!

[SteveM]

41. Hmm. A twist on the penis thing usually "brought up" by the controllers, here (nt)

[sasquatch]

2. Aren't all guns cop killing guns

[Common Sense Party]

7. No. Mine isn't. It hasn't killed anyone or any thing.

What a silly thing to say.

[sasquatch]

16. Mine haven't either, I just think the term is a misnomer is all

[Arctic Dave]

20. If you are a good shot they are. Practice, practice, practice.

[Hoopla Phil]

26. Shhh, don't tell the cops that the have a cop killer on their belt.

[SteveM]

42. Yeah, 'the cop killer.' I've seen that applied to a .30-30...

and they're legal, too, since 1894. And far more powerful.

[Pavulon]

4. Perfectly ignant.

5.7 AP is not available to civilians. Making the weapon not much more than a hicap 22 pistol. Equal results would be had from a Glock 17 with a 17 round mag with a +2 baseplate.

THe weapon does not have a 30 round mag shipped with it.

This is horse shit unless he had ap rounds and some LEO had his vest punched. Not the case, making this article a pile of steaming turd for consumption by really stupid readers.

Thank god this shitstain did not work in the armory.

[onehandle]

9. Always an excuse from those 'in the know.'

It's a fucking gun and people are dead.

Technical enough for you?

[Pavulon]

13. Yeppers, The wife has watched tired people

kill er patients. dead. Ban it, ban i say.. i mean coke has been banished, god knows a ski trip is not possible.

[slackmaster]

19. Yes, those pesky facts always have a way of cutting bullshit down to size

Imagine that.

[eqfan592]

21. Don't try to emphasise a characteristic of a device...

...then complain when somebody shows your emphasis to be incorrect. As for "It's a gun and people are dead" would you rather them all been blown up with explosives?

How about "it's a crazy/evil person, and they are all dead" because it's a person the committed the acts, not an inanimate object.

[PavePusher]

29. Uh-huh.

'Cause your post wasn't slanted in any way, shape or form. Whatever.

[friendly_iconoclast]

30. Who needs that pesky factual accuracy? You've got *FAITH*!

Praise Helmke!

And anyway, did not the great philosopher Byrne teach us that "Facts are stupid"?

[AtheistCrusader]

54. You could be 'in the know' too if only you spent a little time learning about what you post about so

uch.

I mean really, people keep advocating 'reasonable gun control' not knowing what laws are already on the books. This pistol is no more or less dangerous to a police officer, than any other pistol, because the armor piercing ammo has been banned for sale to the public since BEFORE THIS GUN OR THE CARTRIDGE IT FIRES WAS EVEN DESIGNED.

Even a soldier can't just 'buy' it. It's purchased directly from the manufacturer by the department of defense, and distributed directly to units that employ this weapon, like military SWAT MP's, Seals, Rangers and other special units that employ this weapon. For the police, you need valid PD requisition letterhead, and they follow up to make sure it's actually going to a police department.

The ammunition in the stores, is normal. It does not pierce police armor. Your 'it's a fucking gun and people are dead' does not detract from the previous posters perfectly correct and valid point, that this is not a 'cop killer' weapon.

[rfranklin]

10. I'm stroking my nine as I read this....

gun tech talk makes me horny!

[benEzra]

36. You might want to see your urologist about that.

I'm stroking my nine as I read this....gun tech talk makes me horny!

You might want to see your urologist about that. 9mm is just over one third of an inch.

In my experience, people who talk about "stroking guns" don't own firearms...

[rfranklin]

45. I own a Ruger SR9...

but unlike the people I make fun of, I am not a fetishist.

[benEzra]

46. No one is a fetishist.

I don't believe it is coincidental that the ones who view guns sexually are those who fear and loathe them, and imagine that owners must see them the same way.

[Euromutt]

51. If wouldn't fetishize a Ruger SR9 either

I rented one at the indoor range, and I did not like it. So it's kind of left-hander friendly; big fucking deal, so are the Springfield XD and the S&W M&P. And the manual safety rubbed my thumb knuckle quite raw; I rather handle a 1911 with an ambi safety.

[mrbarber]

11. A 31 round chamber?

Holy SHIT

[onehandle]

17. Perfectly legal. nt

[doc03]

23. A chamber only holds one round, the magazine holds

the other 30.

[eqfan592]

27. ya know, I was thinking about pointing that out...

...but the Orwellian sort of DU'ers that poke there heads in some of these threads at times really have a true hatred for facts and reality, and instead prefer to live in their fantasy land where laws magically shield people from the bad people, and the government is there to stop you from hurting yourself because, let's face it, you can't be trusted with your own safety.

[Katya Mullethov]

44. Cannister shot

5.7 inches !

[AtheistCrusader]

55. Best post in thread.

[boppers]

14. Deja Vu

...last thread is still running in the Gungeon.

Same points were made as in this one.

[slackmaster]

18. But you have never personally tested one or even seen one

Marketing hype plus Brady Campaign hysteria equals no real information. YOu don't know jack shit about the subject, onehandle. All you can manage to do is post news stories without even bothering to comment on them, and here you parrot useless crap without making any effort to research the subject. Your posts are worthless. They don't make any kind of positive contributions to the discussion, nothing that has any chance of leading people on the extremes toward mutual understanding. Your only purpose here seems to be to bash gun owners, gun dealers, gun manufacturers, and people who support the right to keep and bear arms at every opportunity.

Perfectly Legal

That's right. Perfectly legal and even certified by the state of California for sale here as a safe handgun. California, the state with perhaps the strictest gun control laws in the nation. The state that has attempted to ban the most popular sporting rifles in the country and gives elected hacks the power to deny people licenses to carry concealed weapons no matter how clean their background or how compelling their personal need for self-defense.

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

You're out of touch on this, onehandle. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

[Hangingon]

52. I have shot a FN Five-seveN and the companion PS-90...

Both in 5.7 with conventional ammunition. The Five-seveN is a nice ahndling full sized pistol and does have a 20 round magazine. I have never seen the 30 magazine. Basically the 5.7 is a hot .22. Balistically I prefer the .45 ACP or the 9mm. It is not a weapon I would buy. The pistol is accurate and has a huge muzzle flash. I personally think magazine capacity is over rated. Mags are quick to change. You are more effective shooter - at targets or game - if you slow down. Any semi auto will spit out empty brass as fast as you pull the trigger. That does not necessarily translate to hits.

[doc03]

22. What makes this gun a cop killer? The Springfield

XDM in 9mm holds 19+1 rounds and comes with an extra 19 round magazine. I have the XDM in 40 cal. it
holds 16+1 and comes with an extra 16 round magazine. My Springfield hasn't killed anybody or anything.

[Common Sense Party]

33. I have the XDm 9mm. I like having 19 in the magazine. I don't have

to reload so often at the range.

And no, mine hasn't shot ANYBODY either. I doubt it ever will.

[Nailzberg]

24. Cop killer my ass. Very sensational term that has no meaning.

Five-Seven holds a lot of rounds. That's about it.

[doc03]

25. 5.7x28 Ballistic report "fast but not much stopping power"

"similar to a .22 magnum" "9mm ammo is cheaper and more effective" So now this gun is labeled a cop killer and I suppose some a--hole will try to outlaw it.



http://mrcompletely.blogspot.com/2006/02/fn-five-seven-57-x-28-range-report.html

[boppers]

28. Steel/Tungsten/DU rounds+High velocity+Small entry=Body Armor piercing.

Good luck buying or making such rounds, though, unless you're FFL or LEO.

[benEzra]

35. Not even unusually fast with moderate weight bullets.

I see a 40 grain at 1650 fps out of the 4.8" barrel. A .357 can push a 110-grain bullet that fast, IIRC. To get over 2000 fps, you have to go down to the 28 to 32 grain bullets, which are TINY (lighter than most .22LR loads).

[Endangered Specie]

32. Even if the gun only had 10 round magazines... it would have taken him 10 more seconds.

Even under stress, one can reload any semi auto handgun in 5 seconds or less. So I fail to see the point about the "30 round clip"

[AtheistCrusader]

34. Oh hey, yet another copy of the same thread. Good job finding the 'post' button.

[virginia mountainman]

37. What amazing amount of ignorance displayed..

The "armor piercing" ammo, is ONLY available to the government.

Also, excluding rimfire caliber guns, their are many, many, MORE guns that will slice and dice body armor than won't.

Go ahead, base your arguments on willfully ignorance, it makes them much easier to destroy your arguments, and discredit you.

[krispos42]

38. Here's what the ATF says about the 5.7 penetrating body armor

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm

FN 5.7 (Fabrique Nationale) pistol is a semiautomatic pistol in 5.7 X 28 mm caliber


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1/20/05

In response to numerous questions that ATF has received regarding the capabilities of the 5.7 X 28mm cartridge, the following technical information is provided.

FTB classified SS196 ammunition as not armor piercing.

The FN 5.7 (Fabrique Nationale) pistol is a semiautomatic pistol in 5.7 X 28 mm caliber.





Type: Double Action Only or Single Action (in Tactical model).
Chambering: 5.7x28mm.
Length: 208 mm
Barrel length: 122.5 mm
Magazine: 20 rounds.

The FN 5.7 (Fabrique Nationale) pistol is a semiautomatic pistol in 5.7 X 28 mm caliber approved for importation as a sporting firearm.

The classification of all ammunition is governed strictly by the definitions presented in the GCA. Specifically, as defined in 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(17)(B), the term "armor piercing ammunition" means-

i. a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or


ii.a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

FTB has also examined a 5.7 X 28 mm projectile that FN Herstal has designated the "SS196." The SS196 is loaded with a Hornady 40 grain, jacketed lead bullet. FTB classified SS196 ammunition as not armor piercing ammunition under Federal firearms statutes.

According to FNH USA, FN Herstal tested the SS192 ammunition. SS192 ammunition did not penetrate the Level IIIA vests that were tested. FNH USA states that SS196, Hornady V-Max 40 gr. bullets fired from a 4-3/4 inch barrel did not penetrate the Level II vests that were used in testing.

FNH USA has informed FTB that SS192 is no longer imported for commercial sale to the United States and that commercial sales of 5.7 X 28mm ammunition are restricted to the SS196 (not armor piercing).

FN Herstal 5.7 X 28mm Ammunition

SS190 - Armor piercing (AP)
SS191 - AP Tracer
SS192 - Hollow Point (not AP)
SB193 - AP Subsonic
SS195 - "Green" - lead free hollow point projectile with copper jacket (not AP)
SS196 - Sporting round (Hornady 40 gr. V-max, hollow point lead), (not AP)
10700004 Blank (not classified as ammunition under Federal law)
10700005 Dummy

(boldface mine)

It's a smaller-than-normal bullet at higher-than normal velocities. Otherwise completely conventional in construtction. Lead core, copper jacket.

It's like being hit with a .22 Magnum from a rifle. A .22 Mag launches a 40-grain bullet at 1910 ft/s, and the 5.7x28 launches a 40-grain bullet at 1950 ft/s. Muzzle energy is either case is about that of a 9mm or .45. Probably a fair amount more "snap", due to a higher impact velocity, but a smaller hole coming and going.

:shrug:

[formercia]

43. It will make a nasty wound

The 40 gr. VMax is a bullet designed for varmints and blows up on impact. I wouldn't want to be hit by one.

If it doesn't kill you, it will surely incapacitate.

[AtheistCrusader]

53. It will fragment.

Not the same as 'blowing up'. These are not explosive or incendiary rounds.

And incapacitation/kill is entirely dependent on shot placement.

[benEzra]

48. Actually, those numbers are for carbine-length barrels...

i.e., the 263 mm (10.35 in) barrel of the Title 2 version of the P90 PDW. The FiveSeven has a 4.8" barrel, and velocities are commensurately lower, typically 1650 fps for factory 40-grain loads, comparable to the lighter .357 loads. Reloaders can go a little faster, but it's delayed-blowback so you can't push it too hot. I see low 1500's for starting velocities and 1700's for maximum-pressure loads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.7x28mm
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/ST_5point7by28mm_200811/

[TheWraith]

39. Actually, that article is full of crap.

"The gun thought to be used in the Fort Hood massacre packs so much firepower, it's known as 'the Cop Killer,' federal law enforcement officials said."

Actually, it's only called that by fearmongers, based on completely inaccurate information. In reality, it's a relatively underpowered .22 caliber pistol which is less capable of defeating body armor or inflicting fatal wounds than any other handgun cartridge. It's what's shooters call a "range toy," a gun which is impractical for real life use.

[Euromutt]

40. It's useful if you have access to SS190 AP rounds...

...and expect to face people wearing body armor. That's what FN developed the 5.7mm round for: for weapons to be issued to military personnel in non-combat functions, but who might in an emergency have to hold off enemy personnel wearing body armor.

But without the SS190 AP ammo--which FN will only sell to government agencies--neither the P90 nor the Five-seveN are much use against armored targets, and compared to a good JHP in 9x19mm, .357SIG, .40S&W or .45 ACP, they're not much good against unarmored targets either.

[Tim01]

49. LMAO at the uneducated, ignorant, hysterical person who wrote this article.

Reminds me a LOT of people who freak out about how gay marriage will destroy the country.

Dumb morans.





(morons)

[shooter55]

56. just wow

Fire 31 shots without reloading, holy crap!!!! I mean, it takes at least 5 minutes to swap out a magazine... This guy could have had 5 round magazines and it wouldn't much matter when 99% of the people around are unarmed, it takes less than 2 seconds to swap out a mag...

I love how the anti's label it a "cop killer" when there's not one documented incident of a LEO EVER being killed by this model gun, by that criteria we could call a Daisy Red Ryder a "cop-killer"... For that matter, .22LR caliber handguns have killed more cops than this particular gun or caliber, those deserve the title "cop killer" way more than this FN five-seven handgun...


I would like to propose that we start calling AR-15's "planet-killers", there's no documented evidence of them ever killing a planet but dang that sounds scary.... LOL

If this guy used a single shot shotgun they'd be saying how we need to ban those "cause the criminals don't ever have to worry about it jamming..."

I don't know how much everyone on here is into guns or not, but when you're part of the shooting community, you learn real quick that 90% of cops have no clue what they're talking about when it comes to guns...