Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

London gunmen shoot to injure not to kill?....

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 01:44 PM
Original message
London gunmen shoot to injure not to kill?....
Surge in London gun crime under scrutiny
05 Nov 2009

The Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA) will today (Thursday) discuss an almost doubling of incidents of firearm use in London in the last six months, bucking the trend in other UK hotspots and raising concerns among politicians that gun crime may be out of control.
In the last six months there has been a increase in Trident shootings (up 92 per cent from 123 to 236) although fatalities are down from six to four, indicating a greater propensity to use firearms to injure rather than kill, a developing tactic among younger gang members.
The figures contrast with those nationally, where firearms offences have fallen by five per cent. Hotspots such as Merseyside has seen a reduction of 27 per cent.

***snip***

Joanne McCartney, Labour spokeswoman on policing on the London Assembly, said: “It is extremely concerning and what I’d like to see is some more information on the age of the young people involved. We need to ask whether there has to be a shift in resources and whether the focus which was on knife crime has now to be moved to gun crime.”

***snip***

Also noteworthy has been an increase in the use of shotguns and converted handguns. It is believed that this is due to better availability of the ammunition for such weapons.
Ms Dick explains: “The number and proportion of non-fatal gunshot wounds to the leg has increased; it may be that gunmen are deliberately seeking to avoid a 30-year mandatory minimum prison sentence for homicide with a firearm by shooting victims in the leg.” emphasis added
http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=9484


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting
I've heard the argument that strict penalties for murderers don't make any difference because the type of person to commit murder would not think in advance of what the punishment was going to be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. There has been a lot of knife crime in Great Britian...
many younger people illegally carry knives for self defense. The bad part about a knife fight is that if you get in one you can expect to get cut.

Perhaps some of the knife fighters have learned this lesson and want to put a little distance between themselves and the opponent. They might not want to kill their opponent, just injure him without risking their own injury.

If so, you can expect to see the amount of non fatal shooting increase.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
3.  Or maybe they are just damn poor shots! N/T
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. There are probably no ranges to practice on. (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Actually, that probably does play a part
An article in The Economist last year (http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_TTSDSGPG) pointed out that, even while the UK homicide rate declined, the number of GSWs almost tripled from 2000 to 2008. The number of non-fatal stabbing victims increased as well, even though knife killings remained stable. The article subsequently states:
So murder is not the problem. But it might suggest what is. Take London, where murder is at a nine-year low. A recent study by King’s College London shows that the over-35s are being murdered less frequently but those under 17 are being murdered more often. From 2000 to 2006, between 15 and 19 teenagers were killed in the capital each year. Last year the figure hit 26; this year, only half-complete, 19 have died.

This changing profile might explain why, overall, injuries are up and murder is down: serious violence is becoming an amateur pursuit.
Emphasis mine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I still think there's some truth to that
I acknowledge that idea was unfashionable among criminologists for a while, but it seems to be making a comeback, namely that what really deters crime is the belief on the part of the would-be perpetrator that there is a serious risk that he will be captured and convicted, to which the actual severity of the sentence is secondary. In hypothetical terms, a 75% risk of a three-month sentence is a better deterrent than a 10% risk of a three-year sentence.

It's possible that the guys who shoot to wound do so knowing that limits on police resources mean than an aggravated assault (which is what it would be in the U.S., the UK might call it "grievous bodily harm") will not be as vigorously investigated as a homicide, meaning there's a much better chance of getting away with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. So that would argue for more cops on the streets
and a more aggressive approach to tracking down criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Exactly, yes
The methods in policing promoted by the likes of William Bratton, of analyzing where trouble sports are, i.e. physical locations were a disproportionately large number of crimes occur, and assigning higher priority to those areas on the patrol schedule, would help too. It's not just having more cops, it's also using them intelligently.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Unfortunately we seem to be doing the exact opposite
if places get too out of control cops are no longer sent there out of fear for their safety.

Which is probably also why the vast majority of all violent crimes in this country is committed by a relatively tiny population, in a handful of distinct areas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. In the peculiar reward system of violent criminals, heavy sentences/execution may be a turn-on
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC