Lies and obfuscation.

[AtheistCrusader]

I'm going to do a series of comparisons on the lies that are used to manipulate public opinion on hot button issues, such as firearms. For the first, I will pull back the curtain on the folks who misrepresent the push to 'allow guns in airports'.

Exhibit A)
Atlanta Georgia
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/01/lawsuit-filed-to-carry-we_n_110270.html
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/07/22/gunsed.html
http://blog.bradycampaign.org/?p=459

"Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin said citizens can't bring guns into the terminal and argued that airports remain attractive targets for terrorism. Allowing citizens to carry firearms "would create an environment that would endanger millions of people," she said."

At first blush, sounds pretty reasonable right, I mean, who would want to create an 'environment that would endanger millions of people'?

I'll tell you who, the heavily blue/left legislature of Washington State:

RCW 9.41.300
Weapons prohibited in certain places -- Local laws and ordinances -- Exceptions -- Penalty.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.

Washington state already has A) One of the busiest international airports in the United States, and B) A long-standing law that allows EXACTLY what the gun owner rights group in Atlanta sued for, the right to carry in the parking lot, and passenger pickup-dropoff areas. The UNSECURED areas of the airport. MANY states already have law on the books that allow for this condition. Why don't you hear about it? Because it's not a big deal. A person carrying lawfully may enter SeaTac International, pick up an incoming friend, and the luggage, and leave, peacefully, without issue and without breaking any laws. If you plan to travel, the gun must be stored in your checked luggage, and declared at the ticket counter. Viola, no issue.

But you wouldn't know that, if you listened to mainstream coverage on this issue. HuffPo, the Atlanta-Journal, even the Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence all make no mention of the myriad states that already allow exactly what the residents of Atlanta were pressing for.

Why do you think they don't mention that? Problem with honest debate?

How can one truthfully claim 'Allowing citizens to carry firearms "would create an environment that would endanger millions of people,"', when this is easily, demonstrably false, in umpteen states throughout the United States?

[AtheistCrusader]

1. If you are going to un-rec, please post why.

Maybe I can address your concerns.

[Tim01]

2. Well, I'm going to rec it. nt

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaxx]

4. Burn your guns.

We burned our bras and it set us free.

Try it.

[inna]

5. what ridiculous bs.

[proteus_lives]

9. That's sillier then usual.

Please elaborate.

[proteus_lives]

22. Pointless.

But you usually are.

[Hoopla Phil]

6. K and R

[TPaine7]

7. I don't expect you'll get honest debate from gun rights opponents,

just more of the same lies and obfuscation you're complaining about. They might throw in some misdirection for a change of pace, or some insults, but that's about it.

I would be delighted to be proven wrong. Come on, usual suspects. I dare you.

[paulsby]

8. i've carried guns in WA airports before

you are correct on the law. (fwiw, i have also carried ON an airplane, but that was doing extradition work, so i digress).

you are correct. WA airports are plenty safe. i know many port of seattle cops (the guys who police seatac airport). there is NO evidence that allowing guns has ANY relation to an increase in crime.

excellent post. the evidence is good. use the evidence. it is on the side of the RKBA movement. they have rhetoric. we have evidence.

[burrfoot]

10. Recommended.

Nicely done, AC. Topical, timely, and straightforward. Will you get scorched for it? Possibly. But that does nothing to detract from the validity of your point.

:toast:

[Euromutt]

11. The major risk factor for terrorist attacks on airports...

...seems to be the presence of an El Al counter. Lod airport (now Ben Gurion Int'l), Tel Aviv, 1972 (26 dead, 80 wounded); Fiumicino airport, Rome, and Schwechat airport, Vienna, 1985 (19 dead, 138 wounded); LAX, Los Angeles, 2002 (2 dead, 4 wounded). Counter-examples are Bandaranaike Int'l, Sri Lanka, 2001, and Glasgow Int'l in 2007, neither of which resulted in civilian dead at the airports themselves.

But it's worth noting that two big ones--Lod and Rome/Vienna attacks--were committed using assault rifles (not so-called "assault weapons," actual automatic-fire-capable assault rifles) and grenades which had been smuggled into the jurisdictions in question. The Lod shooters were Japanese nationals who had carried their vz. 58 rifles (with the buttstocks removed), hidden in violin cases, onto the plane in Paris. The Abu Nidal guys who committed the Rome/Vienna attacks probably got their AKMs and grenades from Libyan intelligence. These are not cases of "they'd done nothing illegal until they pulled the triggers."

The same applies to Hesham Hadayet, the perp in the 2002 LAX shooting. I can't find any mention that the his two handguns were illegally acquired, but I'm guessing not. Even so, given the arduousness of acquiring a CCW permit in California, it's highly implausible that Hadayet carried those guns into the terminal legally.

There was another shooting at Louis Armstrong Int'l, New Orleans, in May 2002, though that wasn't classed as a terrorist attack (the shooter was declared insane). The weapon used in that incident (1 dead, 1 wounded) was a pump-action shotgun, with part of the barrel and stock illegally sawed off.

[JonQ]

12. Gun grabbers lying and misrepresenting the facts?

Well now I've seen everything!

Hint to all the anti-2nd amendment rights folks out there: if you must routinely lie to "win" your argument, then perhaps you should reconsider your argument.

More and more they are becoming the creationists of the left. They take completely biased and inaccurate studies at face value, and ignore legitimate scientific ones. They search through pages and pages of data to find the one point that seems to back their argument, ignoring the thousands that don't. And when all else fails they resort to emotional histrionics to win converts.

I wonder when they'll put up a museum, documenting all the successful gun bans in history?

[Hoopla Phil]

13. In Texas you can carry (if licensed) in the non secured area. Meaning

the part of the airport that you do not have to go through a metal detector to get to. I'm not aware of any problems with this policy.

[PavePusher]

14. Airports I have carried in (Open Carry, for the record):

Tuscon, AZ
Phoenix, AZ
Salt Lake, UT
Manchester, N.H.

No panics, no gunfights, no hostile police encounters, no enraged/paranoid citizens.

I must be doing it wrong.....

[aikoaiko]

15. GA Bill 89 was clear about letting folks carry in unsecured areas of the airport.

In the AJC article, they discuss the actual incidents of violence and crime.

Maureen Downey, for the editorial board ([e-mail])

NO HIGH-FLYING CRIME AT HARTSFIELD

Here are the arrests to date in 2008 at the airport:

1: Aggravated assault with a knife on a police officer

16: Larcenies

2: Auto thefts

Sources: Atlanta Mayor's Office and Atlanta Police Department

I bet most if not all these crimes occurred in the non-secure areas of the airport.

[shadowrider]

23. I'll go one step further

and speculate these crimes were committed by people who already had a rap sheet.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Wow. Nada.

I am actually surprised.

[X_Digger]

17. Willful blindness.

That which does not fit preconceived notions must be ignored at all costs.

[Katya Mullethov]

19. Did you hear the latest .........

On the Tacomah airsoft debacle ?



lol .

[X_Digger]

21. Yup, made me chuckle..

.. almost as much as the lock for an 'unreliable web blog'- as if a huge chunk of DU wouldn't go dark if that standard were enforced for every sub-forum.

[Hoopla Phil]

18. In honor of AtheistCrusader, another oldy but goody.

[jazzhound]

20. Coming from the idjits that went into foaming hysterics about plastic guns

that were capable of getting past airport metal detectors, nothing much would surprise me at this point.

And of course the usual suspects on this board just gobble this stuff up and lick the plate when they're done.