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Minister who held gun rally at church leaves to promote firearm rights

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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:15 PM
Original message
Minister who held gun rally at church leaves to promote firearm rights
Ken Pagano, who drew world attention to his small Valley Station (KY) church by hosting a rally celebrating God and guns in June, has resigned from his ministry to promote gun rights and church security.

He’s working part-time at a local gun range and has helped form a group called the International Security Coalition of Clergy, along with a New York rabbi and others who are promoting the use of armed and trained security at houses of worship.www.courier-journal.com/article/20091007/NEWS01/910070421/Minister+who+held+gun+rally+at+church+leaves+to+promote+firearm+rights
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Who would Jesus cap?
nt
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. "International Security Coalition of Clergy, "
Sure has a nice ring. Will they start sub groups like:
Rabbis with rifles.
Shoot first and pray for their souls.
Packing Priests.
the AK47 ministerial association
The Sisters of the Winchester.

You get the idea.
What would Jesus be armed with? See the new conservative translation of the Bible to find out.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Heh. Our Lady of the Lugar sounds about right.


And of course, "praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. lol nt
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Attention thieves and terrorists
There is nothing at my church that is worth my inflicting violence on you or anyone. Our congregation's faith is stronger than your hate, tougher than your violence, and we're not afraid. Coffee? We're having pot luck after worship, and you're welcome to stay.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. If someone comes in intending violence...
would you and your congregation's lives be worth answering in kind, if negotiations did not work?

What is your life worth?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. I question whether or not some of these guys read the Bible
Matthew 26:52 Jesus said, "Put your sword back where it belongs. All who use swords are destroyed by swords." (The Message Bible)
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tkarolewics711 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I agree
Whatever happened to turn the other cheek? Love thy brother? These people are not Christians, they are the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing. The 3rd Commandment is that you shall not take the Lord's name in vain, yet these people use the Lord's name for their own vain purposes. I wonder if they ever read Galatians 6.7: “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for what­ever a man sows, this he will also reap.”
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TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Jesus was not the doe eyed pacifist some imagine:
He also said this:

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. Mark 3:27


Jesus assumed that a man would defend his house and family--with force--if he was able (or strong). He also instructed his disciples to buy swords (see post 9). Yes, he said that those who lived by the sword would die by it (post 5) but let's look at the context:

47While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him.

50Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

55At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

Matthew 26: 47-55, NASB


Jesus was not preaching or teaching when this happened. He was being arrested. Peter was taking on a large armed crowd with his sword. Jesus, who had previously warned his disciples to get swords, told him to put up his sword. In that situation, every disciple who lived (for a few seconds) by the sword would also die by the sword. Peter was a fisherman, but even if he had been a professional and highly skilled soldier swordsmanship was not the wise course.

If you are surrounded by an angry armed mob, pulling out your 1911 is not the way to stay alive. Even if you live for a few seconds by the gun, you will also die by the gun. This does not mean that guns are always useless anymore than what Jesus said meant that swords were always useless.

As a final note, if Jesus told the disciples to get swords--even telling them to sell their clothing to get the money if necessary--then turned around and said that swords should never be used wouldn't that make Jesus a hypocrite? Or a fool? Or both?
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tkarolewics711 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Very insightful
However, my comments were not meant to condemn Christians who wish to defend themselves, their families, or persons being wronged. My comment was more to condemn those for attacking for the sake of wealth and glory and misguiding others to do so in God's name. What I take from your comment is this: It is right to defend others from harm or from evil, but you must take extreme caution in that the stray bullet you fire might miss target and hit someone innocent on the street, or create a legacy of retaliation. Think wisely before you act.
But what I said is that the sins you commit today will be the sins that will come to meet you later on.
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. +2
Remember, that's not going to be in the New, Uber Right Wing, Conservative Bible!!

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/The-Bible-Conservative-Edition-172
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yes, however...
Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)

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TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. See post 15 n/t
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Flyboy_451 Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-16-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. Luke 22:36
Luke 22:36 (King James Version)

36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. Cool. Does that mean we get to take "In God We Trust" off our money? nt
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Jesus carried a snub nose .38 ... I thought this was common knowlege
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 08:35 AM by OneTenthofOnePercent
Jesus, being a simple Jewsish carpenter, is a huge fan of frugility and simple effective solutions. This is why He carried a .38 snub nose revolver up His sleeve. Simple, subtle, effective... truely the traits of a master carpenter. Just as well, Jesus disdains most automatics and, as an environmentalist, does not care to litter His kingdom with spent brass.
This information is from a wise man I once had a discussion with. The subject of Jesus carrying a ".50 cal" arose...

...You are partially correct in your assertion regarding Desert Eagles, however, the real story is that at some point Jesus made the transition from .38 snubby to a Colt Python in .357 magnum. Jesus made an exception for automatics on the .357 magnum because his love of the round over-shadowed his disdain for automatics. Therefore, the Desert Eagle was commissioned so that Jesus could have an auto chambered in .357 magnum. However, the Desert Eagle didn't come to product until after Jesus had left. So while you are partially correct about Jesus' preference for the .357 magnum, you are incorrect that he carried it. Jesus carried a .38 snubby.

Jesus would love a Desert Eagle - I'm even thinking one of those custom, gaudy tiger-striped - but a Desert Eagle doesn't suppress so well. Yes, .50 AE is a 'wraith-of-God' round, but I'm more certain that while dramatic mayhem comes from booming .50s, it's probably at least equally true that when it comes to subtlety, Jesus is the ultimate Ninja. Whether his silenced .22 is a Buckmark or a Ruger is a point of bitter contention between Baptists and Catholics.

As well, Jesus appreciates the efficiency of the .223/5.56, yet IF Jesus is an AR guy (and I'm not sold on this), its probably chambered in a .50 Beowulf. Jewish frugality is exactly why "Ol' Hay Zeus" would most certainly use an Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf. This 400 grain stick-of-dynamite penetrated over three feet (mushrooming all the way) on a head-shot while buffalo hunting. Yes, the dollar-a-round gets old, but the in-and-out shooting of four people simultaneously appeals to Christ. His Jewish sentiment is, "Yes, the round costs a whole dollar, but in a way its like shoot-one-get-three-free" - and he doesn't even have to clip coupons to get these savings! Jesus does not fuck around. Jesus also doesn't carry an M82A1 because he likes to be in-your-face when he distributes retribution. So... does he use a .50 BMG Mardi-Gras? Ridiculous! It is blasphemy to even suggest this!

When Jesus comes back, he is going to side-arm a Desert Eagle - I've no doubt of that - but his primary source of destruction will be a sawed-off 12 gauge (he will not pay the $200 NFA tax either) with a nice walnut stock. Jesus appreciates a synthetic, but wood is his style. The only exception is the SMG on his back, or in his other hand. In which case it might be an UZI, but it won't be a micro, and it won't be chambered in a 9mm (Jesus hates the metric system). Possibly a P90 (metric is forgivable), possibly an Ingram in .380. Jesus has never really cared for the .380's performance, but its such a dandy round, and not metric either! Last, but most certainly not least, up his billowing sleeve Jesus will have his trademarked .38 snubby.


also touched upon in the debate was the possibily that jesus might have carried a 1911 .45acp on his hip versus the desert eagle...
and therin we hypothesized the origin of The Flood. Groudbreaking theological discussion, I tell you!

Divine intervention (be it Jesus's, the Father's, or the Holy Spirit's) led Moses to design an ageless and ergonomically perfect autoloader for dishing out retribution. Irregardless of the source of divine intervention... somebody upstairs obviously favors large caliber auto's chambered in non-metric cartridges (as previously alluded to) that originally had a seven round magazine capacity (seven often being viewed as a "holy" number). If this case were to be true, it's very possible Jesus might be holstering a 1911.

OR...

Moses took it upon himself to design, in his opinion, a superior sidearm in the 1911. Knowing that Jesus is both a perfect shot and carried a .38 snubbie, Moses chose a non-metric caliber larger than .38 with more capacity and coined the term "stopping power" - believing mortals needed an edge in both terminal ballistics and magazine capacity due to having inferior shooting skills versus Jesus. Ultimately, feeling as if Moses were attempting to one-up him.... Jesus flodded the earth for 40 days and 40 nights, ruining Moses's unbeknownst insurrection of choice in sidearms. As further punishment the Lord confiscated Moses's design for more than 2 millenia, returning it to John Moses Browning (Jesus always liked the name Moses) in the year 1911.
If this were the case, then it makes sense as to why the pistol Moses designed was called the 1911 and why the Desert Eagle is chanbered in a .50AE also holding 7 rounds --> Jesus wanted to carry an autoloader of non-metric units that is larger than Moses's .45 (Jesus is establishing himself as not to be one-upped).

Ultimately, the only certain conclusions we came to were:
Jesus would be carrying a sawed off shotgun, a desert eagle chambered in .357 or .50, and (of course) a .38 snubbie up his sleeve on Judgement Day.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. O.K., you win "LMAO Funny of the Week"! n/t
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. There have been some mass shooting at churches.
In one in Ft. Worth, TX, over a dozen people were killed. A few months ago there was a mass shooting that was starting in a church when a CCW holder dropped the shooter.

I see nothing wrong with having some trained and armed people protecting the congregation.
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