LAT: Fear of gun limits fuels a burst of demand for bullets

[Heidi]

Since President Obama's election, demand for guns and ammunition has skyrocketed. Gun shops have trouble keeping bullets in stock

August 30, 2009

There's a bull market for bullets.

Stacks of ammo, once piled high at gun shops across America, have dwindled. Prices paid by consumers for much-sought-after Winchester .380-caliber handgun bullets have doubled. At weekend gun shows, trailers loaded with boxes of ammunition are drained within hours.

Budget-pressed police departments, which can't be caught short, have increased their orders just to be safe, and the U.S. military, fighting two wars, has seen its need for bullets quadruple in recent years.

Bullets are in demand as the nation's appetite for firearms has soared. U.S. gun sales are up since the 2008 presidential election, during which the National Rifle Assn. poured millions of dollars into advertisements suggesting that Democrat Barack Obama would move to restrict gun sales if elected.

Read more

[villager]

1. "the National Rifle Assn. poured millions of dollars into advertisements ..."

Pretty much says it all.

They are quite the effective hack industry lobbying group...

[benEzra]

48. And of course, you and the gun control lobby have *never* proposed to ban "assault weapons"

or their ammunition, or supported ammunition microstamping proposals, and no prior administration *ever* halted ammunition imports from China. That's all a figment of the NRA's fevered imagination.

:eyes:

[paulsby]

75. much like NARAL

is a "hack industry lobbying group" for abortion medical equipment

[Wilms]

2. Yeah that and gotta protect yerself from them there Death Panel types. You know. nt

[brewens]

3. On the bright side

We get all the gun nuts wasting their money on guns and ammo. They pay top dollar because of the high demand. Money they don't use to compete with me for goods and services I want. When the hysteria dies down they are stuck with guns they paid way too much for. Guns they had no real need for in the first place.
Eventually alot of the guns end up in pawn shops. They end up selling them for a fraction of what they paid. Better yet, they pay the pawn broker for months hoping to not lose their precious gun. Eventually adding several more hundred dollars to what they wasted buying the gun.
Even better yet, maybe they took out a payday loan to rush out and buy the gun in the first place!

[mudplanet]

4. I'm already seeing that here in northern New Mexico

Gun nuts advertising lots of 1000s of rounds of varying calibers of ammo for less than retail, i.e., a lot less than they paid for them.

Just what I need - 10,000 rounds of 7.62X39 ammo in cans in my closet. "No, here, I'll put them next to the water heater."

I wonder how long til we read about a house fire turned into a nasty, lethal fireworks show.

[Statistical]

9. Ammo isn't lethal in a fire. n/t

[mudplanet]

14. Really. Then next time you go camping throw a handful of .270 into the campfire for entertainment.

Just make sure you've left a living will, first.

[Statistical]

15. In Iraq we disposed of corroded, rusted, damaged ammo by burning.

Take 55 gallon drum, pour ammo in, cover with diesel, light.

The smokeless powder in a small arms cartridge is less than that in a firecracker. What makes a bullet lethal is the firearm's chamber supports the round on all sides. This means the pressure can only escapae one way and and it accelerates the round out the barrel. Without something to support the cartridge when heated they simply "pop" bursting at the seams to release pressure, sometimes the round does fly off bu it goes a couple inches at relatively low velocity.


Mythbusters burned ammo in one of their shows to no ill effect. The rounds when bursting were unable to break through the plywood box they were in.

[mudplanet]

18. Great. Build a fire in a 55 gallon drum, pour in some ammo, and stand next to it warming your hands.

It's your life.

I understand the physics of guns. It doesn't surprise me that bullets set off outside a barrel won't penetrate 3/4" plywood. But I bet it'd penetrate your skin, your skull, or your eye.

And I bet soldiers that are disposing of ammo in a fire don't stand next to the damn thing.

And if I was a fireman, in a house on fire trying to find the occupants, and suddenly gunfire started, I'd be tempted to bail.

[Statistical]

20. Fear v. Logic

There are far more dangerous things in a fire than unchambered ammo. Now ammo chambered in a firearm will act like someone pulled the trigger when exposed to high heat so that is a concern.

There are real (not fantasy) dangers that firemen face everyday.

Steam... all the water in the pipes super heats in a house fire. Where the pipe bursts super heated steam will be forced out. It is hot enough to cause instant 3rd degree burns even inside a fireman suit. Likewise hot water heater will eventually explode as the pressure of the steam exceeds strength of the container.

Electrical wiring, household chemicals, steam, fire weakened structure falling on you, blistering heat, risk of blacking out from heat/exertion.

If you would run from some non-lethal ammo burning off then likely you never would step foot in any residence fire.

[Beer on a stick]

21. Goddamn it, stop using logic, facts and rational thought.

It's makes it hard to take the unfounded rants seriously.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. You have issues if you think 3/4" of plywood is tougher than the human skull.

I mean, seriously.

This has been tested. It's done. The science is in. Ammo fires aren't a big deal. At least not in the calibers that civilians can obtain. Black Powder magazines on the other hand... And those muzzle loaders are the ones people seem to think are protected by the 2nd ahahahahaha


Edit: To give numbers, 3/4" of Plywood will hold up to about 1,000,000 PSI of shear force. Fresh bone will stand up to about 3,000,000. Parts of the skull are generally tougher than that, I forget the term, but the metalworking equivalent would be a 'work hardened ridge', where the shape of the material lends additional strength.

[mudplanet]

61. I concede

But I'm not hanging around while someone throws ammo in a fire. Good luck with that. I can also envision a situation in which all the ammo ignites simultaneously. Potential BOOM.

3/4 in plywood isn't tougher than a skull? I'm calling bullshit on that one. Quite simply: take a piece of rebar and punch it through a piece of 3/4 plywood. It ain't easy. But you can kill a man by striking him in the head with your fist, and a pencil can be driven into the human skull at the temple pretty easily.

This argument reminds me of the helmet argument and motorcycles. Put on a motorcycle helmet and have a friend hit you over the head with a baseball bat. Now try it without the helmet. Explosives, no matter how they are packaged, are dangerous.

[Statistical]

63. Are you also deathly afraid of fireworks?

Without containment that is all a cartridge is.

With containment is you figured out the math you could devise a firearm that fired a lethal projectile from a firework. You would need to size the chamber and ensure it can handle the faster burning propellant, you would also need to select a projectile that has small enough mass to be driven to lethal speeds by the expanding gas.

It is the chamber that focuses all the expanding gas behind the bullet and drives to to lethal speeds. A bullet moving at 100fps won't even break the skin but one moving at 1200 will be lethal.

Try to find a single story where someone ever died from unsupported cartridge in a fire (either a residence fire or a prank of throwing round in a campfire).

[benEzra]

64. Firearms propellants are not "explosives" in that they do not detonate, they deflagrate.

If not confined, they deflagrate relatively slowly, venting lots of gas. In other words, unconfined smokeless powder does not go BOOM, it goes WHOOOOOOSH. It doesn't take much pressure to vent a cartridge case, and once that occurs, the pressure is unable to build further.

Now, if you throw a loaded GUN into that fire, the gases can't vent, and they'll build up exponentially to their normal 30,000 to 60,000 lb/in^2 working pressure, and have several inches to several feet of confinement to accelerate the bullet as usual---that can be hazardous, yes. But ammunition in containers or loaded in magazines is generally no more dangerous in a fire than the cans of hair spray in your bathroom (which are generally loaded with isobutane/methylpropane and flammable polymer).

[AtheistCrusader]

66. Welp.

You can break plywood with your fist too. Yes, you can kill a man with your fist, but that doesn't actually require deforming the skull. There are a couple weak spots, but generally speaking, the skull, and bone in general is absolutely tougher than plywood. Your femur is probably stronger than concrete, but rather brittle. Anyway, of course you should wear a helmet on your motorcycle. Even if the skull doesn't deform, you can still die from a blow to the head.

But an ammo fire is not more dangerous if 100 or 10,000 rounds ignite simultaneously. It requires containment, or 'tamping'. Lay a stick of dynamite on the ground. Set it off. Small crater, some scorching, big exciting bang and that's about it. Now cover up that stick of dynamite with 10,000lbs of sand bags. You get a MUCH bigger hole in the ground. Same thing. The firing chamber of a firearm provides 'tamping'. Expanding gas can only escape one way, down the barrel, and can only do it if it moves the projectile ahead of it, imparting kinetic energy the whole way. When a cartridge ignites in the fire, the case splits open, gas escapes through path of least resistance, and the bullet itself doesn't go anywhere, because the gas is able to fully expand and release all energy without moving the bullet much at all.


Warning, I am not saying the powder in a cartridge is in any way comparable to dynamite, propellant doesn't burn anywhere near as fast.

[Howzit]

73. "about 1,000,000 PSI"

You may want to re-check those figures old chap. That is a lot stronger than steel...

http://www.auto-ware.com/techref/materials.html


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=strength+of+materials+steel+wood&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[X_Digger]

16. They pop, but not deadly..

It's the closed chamber that restricts the expansion of gases that propels the bullet.

The brass explodes and can fly out and sting, but the bullet stays in the fire. I've done it, and mythbusters did a show on it :)

[mudplanet]

19. Mythbusters. Great show. The projectile won't fly out of the fire UNLESS

the cartridge happens to be backed up against an immovable object, in which case something's gotta give (go flying).

[Statistical]

23. Or burst which is exactly what they did on the show.

A round in the chamber of a firearm (supported on all sides except the barrel) will act just like it was intentionally fired when it gets hot enough to cook off.

A round unsupported moves relatively slow and is not a danger even at a distance of a few feet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc

[benEzra]

46. Without containment, all you have is firecrackers, since the case splits and vents the pressure.

Primer cups are generally the main danger, if one happens to hit you in the eye. They will not penetrate firefighter's protective gear.

Throwing a chamber-loaded semiauto, lever-action, or bolt-action into a fire will discharge whatever is in the chamber, and a loaded revolver in a fire would result in multiple discharges from the individual cylinders (only one of which would exit with full velocity, however).

[Pangolin2]

7. The money I have invested in mine wasn't wasted.

...

[mudplanet]

17. "Invested"? Wow, That's an interesting concept. Either

you're planning on waiting for "the great ammo shortage of 2010" (it'll coincide with the great pizza shortage, so invest in tomato sauce now - you'll make a fortune) to sell your ammo at a wonderful return, or you go to the target range and shoot a lot on a regular basis. The latter is the only legitimate reason to buy bulk ammo - you use a lot of it on a regular basis and you found a really good deal.

Basically, ammo doesn't accrue value. Unless you shoot it, it sits there and gets stale and loses value.

It's kinda like saying, "Let's invest in fresh bread."

A boyhood friend of mine got caught up in the millennium "end of the world" nonsense, went out and spent thousands and thousands of dollars on weapons, ammo, food, etc. Buried it all in a "secret" location in the mountains.

Ten years later and all he has to show for it is the weapons. Wopeeeee!

Myths of equal idiocy:

At 1:00 am, January 1, 2000, all the computers in the world will crash. As a result Wall Street will crash, civic water supply systems will cease working, riots will break out and there will be mass panic.

Tomorrow (or yesterday, or the day after tomorrow, depending on which bible worshiping nut you ask) Jesus is returning. There will be widespread panic, billions of people will riot. The world will end.

Bill Clinton wants to outlaw hunting, so you better buy all the guns and ammo you can now (actual widespread rumor that circulated among idiot hunters during the Clinton administration - despite the complete absence of any sign, statement or indication that Bill Clinton had ANY opinion about hunting whatsoever).

Obama is going to take all our guns away, so it's best to buy up all the ammo you can now (This despite the complete absence of any indication, statement, or action on Obama's part that he even HAS an opinion about gun ownership and the second amendment).

There's an invisible man in the sky, and he loves you very much, but if you don't do exactly as he says he's going to cast you into a pit of fire where you will burn in excruciating agony for all eternity.

Most conservatives would like to return to the days of Ozzie and Harriet, when men were men and women and Negroes knew their places.

But back when Ozzie and Harriet were raising their brood, people that thought the world was coming to an end tomorrow had long hair and beards, wore robes and walked around with placards that said, "Repent - The End Is Near" You'd often see cartoons in magazine ridiculing them.

Somehow this idea became acceptable, despite that FACT that everything these nuts predict turns out to be totally false, again and again.

[TheWraith]

24. Ammo doesn't "get stale."

I've fired rounds that were 40 years old and just as good as when they were new. Anyway, guns can be considered a commodity item whose value goes up and down. Right now, the prices on the most popular models are abnormally high, so you'd be poorly advised to buy. However, people who bought an AR-15 or the equivalent 3-4 years ago have seen the value of their gun double or triple in the last year. Primarily because the Obama campaign had as part of it's campaign platform reinstating the "Assault Weapons Ban," and several prominant administration officials including Holder and Clinton both talked that up earlier this year. I don't think there's a chance in hell of it actually happening, and I don't think Obama even really wants to try it, but concern about a potential ban is what's driving the market.

[mudplanet]

29. Ammo can and does go bad.

You can find ammo that's decades old and fires just like new. You can also store shotgun or pistol ammo in a clean, dry place and have it go bad in as little as five or six years. Personal experience.

Military ammo is sold sealed in cans (often) precisely in an attempt to keep it from going bad. And it's sold because it's "use by date" is exceeded. Yea, it's almost always perfectly good, but newly manufactured ammo is more reliable.

[Statistical]

25. In 2002 I could have gotten as much 5.56 as I wanted at $60 per 1000 rounds.

Today it costs triple that. 300% return in 7 years.... a lot better than the stock market did.

I passed because I thought I already had "enough". Even if I didn't sell it I wish I had bought 10,000 rounds or so because eventually I will shoot that much and ammo is never going to be that cheap again.

Lastly not sure where you get the idea that ammo goes bad. I have shot ammo that is over 80 years old. As long as it is good quality and stored right (no vibration, no excessive heat, no moisture) it works just as well a hundred years later as they day it was pressed.

[mudplanet]

30. Not always true.

It stands the best chance of lasting decades if you seal it in hermetically in cans.

I've had .45ACP rounds that are fifty years old that have gone bad (every third or fourth round misfired) and they were stored in a cool, dark, dry space (my uncle's gun sat in the drawer for decades). By the same token, I had .32 Colt rounds that had been in the pistol for, probably, eighty years, fire just fine.

I repeat, if you know you're going to use it, it might be a good buy. If you consistently go to the range and shoot your .223 and you know you'll use 3000 rounds eventually, buy it when it's cheap, just like toilet paper.

To stockpile ammo because the world is about to come to an end, or you have some notion that the dictator Obama is going to take your gun away, is silly.

[AtheistCrusader]

51. Little thin on facts here.

First off, properly stored, ammo will last a long, long time. It can gain in value, if the supply of that caliber dwindles. I've fired rounds left over from WWI, through a rifle that's nearly 100 years old. It's fine. Your friend probably needs to do some reading on what constitutes 'proper storage'. If he had, he would still have all that ammo in working condition.

Clinton did sign a ban on many firearms used for legitimate hunting. That cost us seats in Congress. Clinton himself has admitted so.

Obama DID have some policy stuff up on his election site that would have basically re-iterated the 1994 AWB, which of course, will only hand elections to the Republicans. His AG, Holder has sought the power to ban specific models with the stroke of a pen. Fortunately, they have backed off on this issue, and efforts are being focused in a worthwhile direction, Health Care. The AWB didn't make a dent in the suicide with firearms rate, but health care might. That's 12-15k people a year.

[Treo]

53. As An Example

I purchased a Ruger Mini-14 for 475.00$ just prior to the election. The same gun is now selling at gun shows for 800.00$. At the time I purchased the weapon I bought 4 25 round magazines for it at 15.00$ each, the same magazines now run for 50.00$ plus.

Tell me again why guns are such a horrible investment?

[mudplanet]

59. Two points

1) A rifle designed, specifically, so that it can hold a clip with over five rounds of ammo is designed for combat. You can hunt with it, just like you can hunt with a BAR or a fully automatic assault rifle. But that's not what it was designed for. I'm standing by my statement that, "If you can't kill a deer (elk, antelope) with two shots, you ought to find a new hobby." The AWB may have cost us some votes, but it's nonsensical to insist that these are "legitimate hunting weapons." (besides which, it's ridiculous how many hunters that feel they need a 30 round clip then go hunting from a stand with bait) For the record, my next rifle purchase will probably be a mini-14 or a KelTec SU16. I need one to feel secure from all the right wing crazies (like my Winchester riot gun shouldn't do the job).

2) I never said guns were a bad investment (and I didn't say they were a good one. I had an acquaintance that had some very valuable guns and stored them in an expensive gun safe in a very nice neighborhood. One day he came home and the thieves had peeled that safe open like a sardine can with a very serious 8' pry bar). I said ammo, IMHO, isn't a good investment. In another post I pointed out that an old friend had became caught up in the millennium panic, purchased thousands of dollars worth of weapons, food, and ammo, and buried it all in the mountains. All he has to show for it is some weapons. The ammo's probably good, but would you buy it at market value when you could get nice, fresh ammo that hasn't been sitting around for a decade for the same price? If I've only got two shots, I want that shot to actually fire.

I'm surprised at the number of posts here that take issue with my stance against storing ammo a long time, as the issue is reliability. I read a number of gun sites and magazines and what strikes me is the insistence by so many gun owners that they have the largest caliber because they want to make sure what they shoot goes down and stays down. If that's the primary criteria in gun use, it would seem you'd want a well maintained gun and relatively new, tested ammo (personally, I think it's silly. A .38 special is a terrifyingly powerful weapon at close range and seem adequate, to me, for any hand gun cartridge).

[Treo]

62. Hunting Who's Talikng About Hunting?

I agree a BAR or an M-16 would make a pretty lousy hunting rifle but the second amendment isn't about hunting

[benEzra]

65. The primary use for civilian rifles in the United States

is recreational and competitive target shooting, not hunting, and the most popular target shooting disciplines typically use over-5-round magazines. Hunting is a niche sport that relatively few shooters engage in.

Having said that, the "assault weapon" fraud doesn't exempt rifles using 5-round hunting magazines; if a firearm has an evil name (Ruger Mini-14), an evil pedigree (M1 Garand, SKS, M1 carbine), or evil features (e.g., Remington 7400 with a brake, or a Browning BAR Safari Grade with a detachable magazine and brake), then it's banned even if you make one with a magazine capacity of 2.



Ditto for hunting shotguns with "evil features" like protruding handgrips:

You can hunt with it, just like you can hunt with a BAR or a fully automatic assault rifle. But that's not what it was designed for.

Hunting is not what bolt-action rifles in .30-06 or 8mm Mauser were designed for, either. They were designed to kill human beings at extreme ranges. However, that also made them suitable for killing deer and elk at closer ranges, and they eventually became the dominant big-game hunting rifles around the world, even though they never lost their military application:



That's a Remington Model 700, FWIW, one of the more popular bolt-action deer rifles in America. It's also a derivative of the German infantry rifle of World Wars I and II, and is issued to the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan as the M24 and M40 Sniper Weapon Systems.

And Gen-X and Gen-Y shooters have found that more modern-looking rifles in appropriate calibers are just as applicable to hunting as are the military-style bolt-actions that their fathers and grandfathers hunted with, and the military-style lever-actions that their great-grandfathers hunted with.

"If you can't kill a deer (elk, antelope) with two shots, you ought to find a new hobby."

Quite so. But using an 5-round AR-15 in 6.8mm Remington or .30 RAR for deer hunting doesn't mean the goal isn't to put the animal down with one shot, any less than if you are using a Remington M700.



That's a Remington R-25 in .308 Winchester, BTW. One shot, AFAIK.

Out of curiousity, would you consider hunting with a 5-shot .30-30 Winchester to be "nonsporting"? Because if I do ever take up hunting, it will likely be with my 7.62x39mm SAR-1 and 5-round hunting magazine. A 154gr softpoint at 2000fps seems appropriate to me for eastern whitetails in thick pine woods, whether the gun launching it has 19th-century or mid-20th-century styling.

[SteveM]

67. Umm, take a look at both Obama's and the DNC's web site...

and you will STILL find calls for an assault weapons ban; in fact, the legislation proposed by gun-control Democrats calls for even MORE guns to fall under the rubric of "assault weapons" so even more guns can be banned. The President. The Party. Many Democratic law-makers. All have said they want to ban an ever-expanding list of assault weapons. Sorry, your position does not hold up.

As for "Negroes," you should see what Robert Sherrill, journalist and early gun-controller, said about the Gun Control Act of 1968. He was of the opinion that the act was designed "to shut off weapons access to blacks.. while leaving over-the-counter purchases to the affluent." Ironic, don't you think, that after the 60s blacks were well out of "their places," partly because the collapse of Jim Crow gun laws meant blacks could more readily obtain firearms for self-defense? But while Jim Crow died in the South, his ghost infected many of the cities of the North, hence Sherrill's statement.

Gun-control is founded on the stinking corpse of Jim Crow.

[safeinOhio]

5. The anger grows every day

that no one takes their guns away. Cognitive dissidence? Me, I'm going to short ammo and get rich.

[DainBramaged]

6. Gotta have enough boolits in case Obama's brown shirts come fo me....

:sarcasm:


Fucking paranoid corncobs.

[MadHound]

8. Hey, look at it this way

It is a stimulating force in this recession.

[michreject]

10. The writer of the article needs to get out more

The situation that they describe was a problem earlier in the year but it's improving now. I've managed to get 10,000 primers in the last few weeks from three different vendors. For about 6 months, none could be found anywhere. The hoarders have their allotment met and the shelves are filling up again.

People are realizing that President Obama is not going to take their guns.

[madmom]

13. I think the frenzy is dying down and they're trying to whip it up again. My SO is on a gun

board and just the other day was reading an article about how the frenzy is dying and soon there will be cheap ammo. I think the powers that be can't stand to be proven wrong and are trying to keep it alive.

[havocmom]

11. All part of the manufactured fear frenzy the corporatists are using to whip up hysteria

in hopes some 'lone wolves' start getting rid of liberals. Decades of bad press and lies from all sides have not rid the world of us. Now, the status quo profiteers hope to incite insanity to finish the job.

Then, of course, they can also have excuse for the martial law they want but keep telling the wingers is our plan.

All part of the circus.

[hollowdweller]

12. I bought early

Several years ago ammo was CHEAP. I was getting 7.62X39 for around 100 a thousand. I got some 9X18 for 90 bucks a thousand. I bought 2 cases! Got some .30 carbine for 150/1000.

End result is I've been able to shoot all and as much as I want and not have to pay the insane prices.

I'm hearing this wingnut I set next to at work, that lives in the city and doesn't even hunt order thousands of cases of expensive ammo.

I'm sorry but these people are DELUDED. It aint' the Dems that are going to make ammo hard to get. It's their own stupidity believing the GOP/NRA bullshit.

Dems in congress 3 years. Obama in office over half a year. No new gun control. Prices will be going DOWN.

The whole gun/ammo buying hysteria shows how we got the 9/11/Saddam belief and why people are believing the death panel and other health care lies. People are paranoid and gullible and have trouble accepting facts that go opposite of how they've been programmed.

[HopeHoops]

22. I bought a small amount of ammo BEFORE the election.

Ironically, for exactly the opposite reason as the gun nuts. They are the real threat. I don't keep the shotgun loaded, but I do have a loaded clip handy (but high up, and out of sight).

[Pangolin2]

26. You have a loaded 'clip' for a shotgun?

Interesting.

[AuntPatsy]

27. -) I can hope he or she was referring to two different weapons..be nice..

[Pangolin2]

31. Yeah, that must be it. Shame on me for being suspicious of someone who uses the phrase

"gun nut"

:eyes:

[ejbrush]

72. They were probably talking about this...

Shotgun, single barrel, bolt action with a detachable 2 round magazine (let's not go into the whole clip vs. magazine discussion here, just accept the vernacular). My grandmother had one for many years to dispatch garden raiders and suppliment the larder - an amazing 2 in 1 tool.

[HopeHoops]

32. It only holds two cartridges.

It is a really old Sears model (nice piece of work, too). The guy where I bought the cartridges said it was probably a Remington. It isn't a real high priority for me to find out.

[Pangolin2]

37. Is it a 'double barrel'? Sears sold guns made by Stevens for some years back in the

50s or thereabouts. What gauge is it? I'm not a shotgun expert, I just have one (also very old, it is a
.22 rifle/.410 shotgun 'over and under') this is fascinating. I'd love to see a picture of it!

[HopeHoops]

45. It is just a simple .20 single barrel.

The woodwork is beautiful (no engravings or anything, just nice to look at), but as I said it was a basic and probably low-end model. My F-I-L passed away 3 years ago and took any further answers about it with him.

[Treo]

54. I was thinking the same thing

[aikoaiko]

56. If he does, they are awesome.

Most people refer to them as speedloaders for shotguns, but essentially they are clips to load the magazine tube.


A person shooting in a 3 gun match that demonstrates the benefits of being proficient with a shotgun speedloading clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk0y8NxHhq4

[lefthandedlefty]

28. I must really be off in the head

I have never even owned a gun

[mudplanet]

60. You probably will never need one. Don't sweat it.

One good definition of a gun is "an accident waiting to happen."

[spin]

33. A lot of new gun owners bought firearms...

because they feared they were going to be banned. They brought these weapons to the range and discovered that shooting was FUN.

Shooting requires ammo, and a day at the range can burn up a lot of ammo.

Some more experienced shooters feared the gun grabbers might go after ammo, so they stocked up.

American ammunition companies are also producing ammo for two wars.

It will take a while but eventually the supply will catch up with the demand and prices will drop.

[Paladin]

34. So The Whole Situation Is Based On Unfounded Rumor And Stupidity?

Thanks for the confirmation. Not that I needed it......

[spin]

41. Exactly. Fear caused the bubble. Bubbles eventually burst. (n/t)

[aikoaiko]

42. Well.... there was this little gem from Change.gov which you conveniently ignore/forget

Our President campaigned on banning the new sales of popular guns with certain accessories. Fortunately, he's backed away from it and reigns in people who speak of the ban. Its not rumor mongering and not stupidity to believe the campaign rhetoric of our President.

http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda/
Under the Crime and Violence section:

Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.

[benEzra]

58. Rumor, the Iraq War, post-Katrina hedging, increases in commodities prices, concern over new bans,

concern over microstamping proposals, and economic uncertainty. A perfect storm for a tight ammunition market.

[Liberal_in_LA]

35. bet most of the buyers will never use those bullets. They'll rust or whatever the heck happens to

old bullets

[Statistical]

36. Same thing that happens to old gold n/t

[Pangolin2]

39. Hey, there's an idea! Let's start up a company to buy old bullets and advertise on late nite TV

"send us your old ammo and get a check in just a few days!!!"

:D
:rofl:

[Statistical]

43. Sadly local govt already has that market cornered.... gun "buybacks"

not sure how it is a "buyback" when they buy something that was never theirs.

Anyway there is no evidence that criminals "sell" their firearms (which is more valuable a gift card for some fish or a fishing pole) however many people do turn in priceless firearm they find in attics for $50 walmart giftcards.

Lots of historical pieces end up melted down that way. Sad thing is if the same people took it to a gun shop they likely would still get riped off by only getting $200-$300 for a $5000 antique but it would still be better than a $50 giftcard.

[Pangolin2]

44. Yeah, it's trickle-down economics. They get the fifty Wallyworld bucks,

buy some Chinese junk and swap it for a couple bottles of Thunderbird over on 3rd street. It's the American system at work.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

49. They will likely shoot all that ammo.

I shoot 1 gun every other week for practice/competition.
The course of fire usually requires 2 small boxes of ammo, 100 rounds.

That's 2500 rounds a year just for practicing with one gun.
Imagine people who own and practice with several guns...
For a casual shooter 1000rnds a year is nothing. I know "nuts" that use 1000 rounds in one range trip.

I know at one point I had thousand(s) of rounds in several calibers stacked up.
I've depleted most of it throughout this shortage and have resorted to getting a box or two at a time every other week.

[aikoaiko]

38. Stories rehashing the guns and ammo shortage of 2009 are really growing on me.

Every couple of months some news reporter rediscovers the issue and gets the story out again.

As it turns out the guns bubble has burst. Inventories are up and prices are coming down. For example, COLT 6920 (one of the biggest names in ARs) are in stock and back down to 1200 dollars. Top selling pistols like the Springfield XDM are on shelves for $550. Ammo is still relatively high priced and scarce. WallyWorld started to ration their sales and now there is often 9mm and .40 cal on the self -- Federal or CCI. Still, I haven't seen .380 at Wal-mart in a year.

I love the rush and I love these stories because I am convinced politicians are surprised by all these motivated people who are spending their hard earned money on guns and ammo during a crushing recession. I am sure politicians see this motivated behavior as something that could translate into votes against them should they try to ban or restrict certains types of guns and ammo.

[SteveM]

68. Good post. Leave it to MSM to pump up the volume (nt)

[Doctor_J]

40. COnservatism = mental illness

this needs to be repeated over and over again

[Howzit]

74. Consider this

Many of the same mental defectives that voted for Bush twice, also voted Obama into office. Otherwise, how do you explain the turn of events?

[benEzra]

47. The Times is about four years late to this story. The ammunition shortage began in *2005*

when post-Katrina hedging met Iraq War demand, and subsequent talk of a new "assault weapon" ban and cutoffs of Eastern European ammunition imports by the gun-control lobby (like the Clinton administration did with Chinese ammunition, a ban that still stands) raised legitimate price and availability concerns. If eastern European ammunition imports were halted, the price of 7.62x39mm ammunition would probably triple or quadruple. New production bottlenecks stemming from proposed microstamping legislation were also a legitimate concern, as was the steep ramp-up in raw materials prices that occurred a couple of years ago.

Thankfully, Obama put the kibosh on the "assault weapon" fraud and told Holder and the DLC zealots to STFU about new bans, and that seems to have calmed fears of new restrictions. Gun and ammunition prices have returned to more or less normal levels, though inventory is still catching back up.

[paulsby]

52. my police agency supplies every officer with two boxes a month

as per our negotiated union contract.

guess what? they have not been able to fulfill that requirement for many many months.

and realize that only about 1/4 of the officers take advantage of this benefit. (anybody who doesn't take free ammo is crazy imo, but there you go).

and we still can't keep up w/demand. as long as we make demands and document it, our agency is contract bound to supply this ammo at a later date. arguably with interest...

but this is the first time in my career (20+ yrs) when i have seen ammo this short

[aikoaiko]

55. Out of curiosity, is the ammo FMJ target ammo or serious self-defense hollow-point like Gold Dot

and how many come in a box? 20, 50, 100, ?

[paulsby]

69. it is the exact same ammo

we carry in our duty weapons. iow, we practice with our duty ammo.

as a firearms instructor myself, we were pushing for this for a while. it is (imo) kind of silly (although cheaper) to train with a different ammo than one trains with. we used to train with "training ammo".

it is jacketed hollow point.

50 to a box.

so, we get 100 rds a month. i have NO idea what ammo costs since i haven't bought it in 20 yrs, but i assume that's not cheap!

[Euromutt]

70. That explains a lot, then

My favorite online ammo vendors haven't had my preferred defensive ammo in stock for yonks. At least, not the 50-round boxes intended for law enforcement which cost about the same as a 20-round box meant for selling to private citizens.

As for training with "training ammo," a couple manufacturers very specifically make a line of FMJs with the same ballistics as their premium duty/defensive ammo so that the training rounds do the same thing the duty rounds will. One good example being Speer's Lawman FMJ ammo, which is made to have the same ballistics as Gold Dot.

[aikoaiko]

71. Wow, that is a good deal. 1200 rounds of high quality HP is nice benefit.

Good for you.

[benEzra]

57. It was a perfect storm...

Iraq demand and production shifts, plus post-Katrina hedging, plus concern over future availability, plus economic uncertainty, plus millions of people buying ammunition for newly purchased guns, plus reluctance by manufacturers to add facilities/personnel in this economy. That confluence of factors was pretty much historic.

I am still kicking myself for not buying more 7.62x39mm when it was $99/case, prior to 2005.