Did guns embolden this crime?

[sharesunited]

Yep, looks like. Pretty much.

Would the crime have occurred without access to guns?

No, probably not.

Thanks Second Amendment.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/24/texas.doctor.killed/index.html

[Statistical]

1. Good thing there were no murders or burglaries or crminals making bad choices prior to guns.

Yup the middle ages were a bunch of puppy dogs and rainbows for the law abiding until that evil invention "the gunz" rode into town.

[dashrif]

8. Yup

every one was good little subjects and the lord\king provied all the protetion and food the serfs needed too :eyes:

[joeybee12]

2. Don't blame the second amendment...it doesn't give individuals the right to own guns...

...nutjobs (including five flatulent old men on the SCOTUS) think so, but hx and intent says otherwise.

It's a perfectly good amendment bastardized by gunnuts for their own sick purpose.

[fedupinhouston]

4. That it is an individual right...

...was a unanimous holding by the USSC, not just 5 of them.

You are right about one thing though - it doesnt GIVE individuals anything.

It does, however, tell the government that it does not have the authority to control firearms ownership and protects the individual right to keep and bear arms.

You see - the Bill of Rights, like all of the US Constitution, does not define what the people may or may not do - it defines what GOVERNMENT may or may not do. The right to be armed existed prior to this nation, and exists today as well.

[iverglas]

22. just in case you didn't get the message

Your allegation of bigotry has been deleted.

I'm still wanting to know what the fuck it is supposed to mean, because it still looks as moronic as when my little brother pitched his fit and followed me and my friend down the street shouting "pregnant" at us.

He was too young to know how moronic he sounded. And you?

[defendandprotect]

7. GOP/NRA similiar to GOP/"pro-life" nutz . . . and violence is the end result . . .

[atreides1]

3. Grasping are we?

Until I see just a little more evidence, I think I'll wait before making an assupmtion.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

6. Of course . . . but there is still the GOP/NRA propaganda of Wild West America . . .

and the individual right to take guns anywhere -- with no state limitations, no

Federal limitations!

GOP/NRA Wild West America stinks -- and we will all pay the price for it!

[friendly_iconoclast]

34. You of *course* have examples of this propaganda ready to show us, no?

You could give us some to cluck over...

That is, you could if that 'black bag' squad from the NRA hadn't snuck in and deleted it from your hard drive, amirite?

[proteus_lives]

9. Wow, pathetic.

Even for you.

[rrneck]

10. One would think

that with Google you might find a more fitting news item to make your point. Exactly how would the possession of a firearm somehow embolden at least four or maybe five individuals in three vehicles to suddenly converge on an unoccupied residence to burglarize it? That is of course, assuming that burglary was the motive. It is possible they were there lying in wait to ambush for the owner for reasons of their own.

For us to even consider the possibility that a firearm caused these individuals to do what they did, we would need to know their mental states before they acquired the firearm. We would also need to know what sort of lives they have lived, their criminal history, and maybe some knowledge regarding their relationship to their parents. In short, we would need some knowledge of a whole host of environmental factors that would have a much more pervasive and profound impact on their lives than some inanimate object. Do you have that information?

[Katya Mullethov]

11. I have a buddy that still lives in South Africa

And he encountered pretty much the same thing some years ago . The only difference was he entered the house to find his son grappling with a man who was armed with a machete forged from an old automotive leaf spring . Had the opportunity presented itself , he would have clove little Jerry's skull in two ,and then helped himself to the womenfolk, and then whatever he could steal . But as it just so happened , Big Jerry shot him in the ear so nobody got their head or tits cut off .

So in a word , no .

[divideandconquer]

12. Gun nuts lower America to 3rd world status and they're proud of it

Just a bunch of sicko neoCONS who still long for the Confederacy.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Katya Mullethov]

18. In a world devoid of evil men

Big Jerry could have cooed " I love you . I love you . I love you ." In his best Timothy Treadwell falsetto .

But we dont live in one of those , so the headline would have read exactly the same . " Predator devour milquetoaste " .

[backwoodsbob]

24. I own..let me think here...ummm...9 guns

does that qualify me as a gun nut?

[sharesunited]

28. Yes. You're quite mad you know.

[oneshooter]

29. No you are NOT a "gun nut"

Just a fellow with a good start on a collection. After 40+ years my modest collection is just at 200 pieces.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[iverglas]

21. oh dear

There must be a root cause somewhere in that fable. Something like: black Africans are vicious semi-human dirtbags. And of course all proper whities need their gunz to fight off the uncivilized wildlife.

Would I have that right? Friend of Kim and the Mrs, are you?

Special delivery for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v439zTOJVho

Hahahaha.

[Katya Mullethov]

31. Ya talkin ta me ? You talkin ta ME? YOU talkin ta me ?

How about some red circles and arrows ?

----->>>>>> Some people are evil and lack a conscience . <<<<<<---------
----->>>>>> Opportunity emboldens them moreso than choice of weapons <<<<<<---------


If you cannot counter nor comprehend the cetaceaneasque screeching emanating from my keyboard , and the frustration tempts you to once again hurl nothing but insult and invictive ....could you please do it in Italian ?

[Taitertots]

13. I'm supposed to believe five people would be too afraid to confront one man

if they didn't have a gun?

Five people with tire irons could have beaten him to death in seconds.

The main weapon in the Rwandan Genocide was the machete wasn't it?

[spin]

25. Criminals are not usually trained professional fighters...

nor are they exceptionally brave.

Facing an armed man who looks like he can use his firearm may easily cause five thugs to run.

[Taitertots]

26. Sharesunited wants to disarm the homeowner as well

Five people with a couple thick tree branches could beat just about anyone who doesn't have a gun to death without breaking a sweat.

[iverglas]

37. "The main weapon in the Rwandan Genocide was the machete wasn't it?"

Nope.

It was the AK47.

That was what the men behind the people with machetes were holding.

[spin]

14. Since these guys were criminals...

they probably didn't obtain their weapons legally.

If gun control focused on taking firearms away from criminals and imposed draconian punishment on those caught illegally carrying guns, we might live in a safer society.

Unfortunately, this is expensive. It involves the legal system and may well require building more prisons for the short time. It is far cheaper to merely pass "feel good" laws that accomplish nothing, but cause the very liberal voters to feel that the politicians they elect are actually doing something.

But feel free to propose your idea of totally banning access to firearms. It's a idea that might work in a fairy tale. It will never succeed in this country at this time. But you can always dream of a utopia where everyone is peaceful and happy and crime is nonexistent, merely because firearms are unavailable.

I would suggest you study magic and see if you can find a spell that would disable all firearms everywhere. If you accomplish this then you can work on finding a spell that will eliminate knives. machetes and bow and arrows.

Perhaps you could create a new religion that would spread over the world and cause all people to be peaceful and law abiding.

[sharesunited]

16. Start where you can start. Stop the sale of new guns and ammo. Pinch off the source.

[spin]

23. Your idea would sound good to the the anti-gun crowd...

but how do you push the legislation through Congress when many Democrats are pro-gun?

Conservative House Democrats defied party leaders Wednesday and pushed through legislation that loosens gun laws in the District, saying that the Second Amendment trumps their party's long-standing advocacy of Home Rule in the nation's capital.

"Number one, I'm a pro-gun Democrat," said Rep. Mike Ross of Arkansas, a member of the Blue Dog conservative Democratic coalition. "Number two, if the government of the District of Columbia can take your guns away from you in our nation's capital, Prescott, Arkansas, and many other small towns across the country could be next."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/18/house-democrats-push-through-pro-gun-bill/

WASHINGTON -- Sixty-five House Democrats said Wednesday that they would oppose any attempt by the Obama administration to revive a ban on military-style weapons that President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1994 and President George W. Bush let expire.

The pro-gun Democrats, led by Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., wrote Attorney General Eric Holder that they would "actively oppose any effort to reinstate the 1994 ban, or to pass any similar law."

They urged the administration to avoid a "long and divisive fight over a gun control issue" at a time when Washington needs to concentrate on the economic crisis.

The House letter came a day after Montana's two Democratic senators, Max Baucus and Jon Tester, wrote a similar letter to Holder saying the Justice Department should enforce existing laws before considering new gun ownership restrictions. "We will strongly oppose any legislation that will infringe upon the rights of individual gun owners," they said.
http://www.newsmax.com/politics/assault_weapon_ban/2009/03/18/193440.html

Of course, we differ on our views of solving the misuse of firearms in our nation, but your idea if proposed in Congress in this current atmosphere would fail in committee and would only give the pro-gun forces ammunition to back up their claim that Democrats are gun-grabbers.

The mid-term elections will probably reduce the number of Democratic seats in Congress. The Republican propaganda machine is in overdrive. Currently, it looks as if they have managed to convince many Americans that our crappy for profit healthcare system is fantastic and we should preserve the medical insurance companies and their obscene profits rather than consider a far better alternative that will cost less and deliver more.

A push for a draconian gun law such as you have proposed would doom any chances Obama has to enact real change. Add a bunch of very angry gun owners to all the people that are convinced that Obama wants to make the United States a socialist nightmare and you would doom the Democrats in the midterm elections and probably kill any chance that Obama has of winning a second term.

edited for typo

[Euromutt]

36. Keep dreaming

Criminals in western Europe are perfectly capable of arming themselves, and they don't do it via straw purchases or theft from legal gun owners: they get them from a black market that acquires the weapons in eastern Europe, Russia, etc. There is no plausible argument that I've heard why American criminals wouldn't be perfectly capable of doing this is well even if the supply of legal private firearms dried up in the U.S.

Here's an article from the Guardian from last year: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

<Detective Chief Inspector Colin Sutton> said guns could be purchased for a few hundred pounds in many parts of London. "You can hire a gun for a period and, if the gun has already been used for a murder, the going rate comes down."

While the conviction of Wilkinson was seen as a breakthrough, it is accepted that with the increased traffic between Britain and eastern Europe, stemming the flow of weapons remains an almost impossible task.

"Guns are always available," said <firearms consultant David> Dyson. "You can go to the former Soviet Union, or countries with less stringent regulations than ours, and although British Customs have their successes, many guns appear to be smuggled into the UK."

If criminals feel they need guns, they will acquire them, because someone, somewhere will be willing to sell to them.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. No. Unrec thread. Move on.

[slackmaster]

20. Sure thing, there's no way four or five guys could possibly overcome and kill one unarmed man

Without at least one gun among them, there's no way they would bother trying to burglarize his home.

:rofl:

K&U

:kick:

[yost69]

27. Did knives embolden this crime?

Nope. Same as the OP, it is just what the murderer had access to at the time. It is time to stop blaming the weapons and start blaming the people that are using it.



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/homicidereport/2009/08/update-trial-nears-in-stabbing-death-of-usc-student-.html

[michreject]

30. I bet the victim wished he had a gun

when this all went down. Out come would have been different.

[proteus_lives]

32. Better title for your post.

Did human beings embolden this crime?

[pipoman]

33. What an utterly and intensely idiotic, and cold post which only a complete moron could conceive

[Tim01]

35. Guns caused crime. nt