Increased skepticism over Chicago's gun buyback program

[derby378]

Mayor Daley today announced a new version of his long-running gun-buying program. This weekend, those who turn in weapons will receive debit cards worth up to $100 in exchange for an assault-type weapon.

"Now think of that. Here's the mayor of the city of Chicago asking people to turn in assault weapons," Mayor Daley said. "We're not in Iraq. We're not in Afghanistan. We're in America. We're asking 'em to turn in assault weapons. What do we need an assault weapon in America for?"

Among those who doubt that Daley's decades of gun-control efforts have made Chicagoans any safer: a police officer. He talked to CBS 2's Kristyn Hartman at the scene of yesterday's gang crossfire that left an innocent 15-year old girl critically wounded.

When asked if gun control would keep guns away, Officer David Montgomery said, "No, 'cause the underground market. You can always get the guns. There's the underground market out there. What can you do about it?"

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/gun.turn.in.2.1127786.html

Amendment II Democrats now on Facebook - become a fan today!

[Kolesar]

1. Just come to Ohio to buy guns at gun shows--gangsters' paradise

[baldguy]

2. Right- all the illegal gun market needs is a few "honest gun dealers" to break the law.

And I think there's more than a few.

[HALO141]

29. Linky? n/t

[virginia mountainman]

3. Then why does not Ohio have Chicago's crime problem?? NT

[Kolesar]

4. The young people left the state...n/t

[HALO141]

30. Then all we need do is OUTLAW YOUNG PEOPLE

[baldguy]

5. duh

Chicago:


Ohio:

[spin]

7. Not all of Ohio is rural...

Cleveland

[baldguy]

9. But most of it is

Which is not true of Chicago.

[spin]

14. No, Chicago is a city, however Illinios has rural areas

Tunnel through the Trees in Rural Illinois.

[baldguy]

16. And the OP is about **CHICAGO**.

Or didn't you pick up on that?

[spin]

23. Yep, sure did...

In your post titled "Duh", You show a picture of downtown Chicago followed by a picture of rural Ohio and attempt to argue through insinuation that the reason Ohio doesn't have Chicago's crime problems is that Ohio is rural countryside.

My point is that are large urban areas in Ohio.

Admittedly it would be better to compare Chicago's crime rate to Cleveland. This site will accomplish this. (Note: 2006 data)
http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=chicago&s1=IL&c2=cleveland&s2=OH

[Statistical]

24. Yeah and your strawman was to compare a CITY with RURAL area.

Ignoring the fact that there are dozens of CITIES (not just rural areas) in gun friendly states.

Why don't those CITIES have high crime problem?

I mean if easy access to guns is the problem shouldn't the city in the state w/ "easy access" have higher crime rate then the city hundreds of miles away?

Another way to look at it IF gun access in Ohio raises crime in Chicago it should raise crime in Clevland MORE, but it doesn't because guns aren't the problem.

[fedupinhouston]

38. Chicago is a city

Ohio is a state. Dont you find the comparison just a LITTLE specious?

[rrneck]

8. *sigh*

Cleveland Ohio


Cincinnati Ohio


Columbus Ohio


Effington Illinois


Please don't be disingenuous.

On edit:
You're quick Spin.

[baldguy]

11. And just where in Chicago is Effington located?

Or is that Effingham?

What's disingenuous is not to acknowledge that guns laws that "work" in rural parts of the country are disastrous & deadly when applied to urban areas, but those cities are nonetheless at the mercy of the lax laws in those same rural areas.

[rrneck]

20. I feel so chastised.

You caught a typo.

While you are out catching things, why don't you intervene every time somebody gets assaulted and there are no cops around.

Get back to me when you get that done.

[baldguy]

21. Effingham Isn't anywhere near Chicago either

And considering that the OP is about CHICAGO...

[rrneck]

27. Wow, that was quick.

Did you single handedly intervene in every assault that has occured in the last two minutes?

[virginia mountainman]

10. Are you saying people in Urban areas,

Are not worthy of their civil rights??

I would wager that in rural areas, their are far more guns in the population than in Urban areas, and yet, their is very little gun crime.

Is your argument that people living in urban areas are incapable of the proper use of a tool?

Why?

[baldguy]

13. Gun ownership has always been subject to local laws.

Are you suggesting that the people of Chicago - or any city - are incapable or governing themselves, or that they just should'nt be allowed to?

[virginia mountainman]

17. Than why is mayor Daley

On a personal jihad. against CCW in downstate Ill?? He screams bloody murder when a much smaller city in Ill, wants to give out CCW permits to it residents that want them, that will only be good in their county or city. Why would he have a problem with this?

Why is he on TV demanding national gun control laws???

I am not saying that at all, If the US Constitution applies in rural areas, it should apply in urban ones.

[baldguy]

22. He's doing the job the voters of Chicago hired him to do.

Those people have determined that guns are a threat to the peace & safety of their city. And because enough "responsible gun owners" downstate & nationally aren't really responsible, guns still are available to the criminals in their city.

[spin]

25. I seem to remember a lot of stories about the dead voting in Chicago. (n/t)

[Indy Lurker]

37. Vote early Vote often! N/T

[virginia mountainman]

26. So, your reference above to "local laws"

Is really just BULLSHIT?

[fedupinhouston]

39. I fail to see...

where the mayor of a city could be elected to change the laws of the state, or the entire nation.

[beevul]

40. Ahh yes.

The voters of chicago hired him to crusade against concealed carry downstate.

The voters of chicago hired him to crusade against guns nationwide.




Ignorance and arrogance rolled into a single package. How efficient of you, and daley.


It needs saying yet again:

If you wish to have rules and laws so much more restrictive than the rest of America, don't you dare blame your neighbors when they don't work.

The burden and onus of making those laws actually work - those so much more restrictive than the rest of America - falls on you, not your neighbors.

The burden and onus also falls on you, to make a proper and correct determination of when such a thing is impossible.


Both you and daley fail on all counts.

[beevul]

41. I'll suggest this...

That the leaders of Chicago are incapable or governing without stepping on the toes of others outside thier governance.

[bossy22]

44. true to a point

our country was founded on a federalist principle therefore it is only natural for it to trickle to the local level. But that being said, not everything is up for absolute local control. sometimes there has to be unity among an area....just think, what happened if every town in New York state had their own drivers license and non-recognized the other...dont you think that would be a little silly?

Now we come to gun laws...there is no doubt that urban areas require different laws than lets say rural areas...but to a point. Things like open carry can be seen as harmful in urban situtations and therefore barred...but other things like possession of certain guns, makes no sense. Is keeping a handgun in a safe in your suburban home more safe than keeping it in a safe in a chicago apartment?

but these types of laws will always continue to be proposed...not out of necessity but out of good old political pandering. C'mon, what politician doesn't like to stand on a podium and say with a booming voice "LOOK WHAT I HAVE DONE FOR YOU...". Passage of almost any type of gun control law is seen as favorable in these communities so why wouldn't any politician in that area support it?

So in short, mayor daley will continue to defend the handgun ban to the fullest, even though any urban policy maker with half a brain realizes that the effect on crime of such a ban is basically negligible

[PavePusher]

46. I must disagree with one of your points.

"there is no doubt that urban areas require different laws than lets say rural areas...but to a point. Things like open carry can be seen as harmful in urban situtations and therefore barred"

Sorry, but Civil Rights are not dependent on geography. There is no valid legal reason to restrict bearing of arms in cities but not not in rural areas. If you base the exercise of Civil Rights on the mental discomfort of the ill-informed, you have already lost them.

[bossy22]

47. you are wrong

difference in geography and many other factors DO in fact play a role in constitutional decisions....it is why we have a human element in our court rooms. You can't read the constitution in such absolutist terms.

in terms of open carry in large areas, i think any law barring it would not necessarily be against the second amendment. If the law requires you to conceal it, how is it violating your rights???...you can still carry a gun, all the law is doing is regulating the manner in which you can carry a gun.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a court that says that the public problems caused by open carry in large urban areas is outweighed by the second amendment.

[Katya Mullethov]

28. Demographics do seem to play an important role

I listened to this video in its entirety and by their own admission , these gentlemen claim responsibility for a large part ,if not all the shootings occuring in their particular area of infuence . Largely bravado no doubt , but more intersting to me , is a glimpse at a particular mindset concerning personal protection and its relationship to ones own legal responsibilities .

Strong language ,gun play, and true misogyny . (reality) Open at your own peril

add yer own www ---.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk-chatter-box/127132-video-makes-me-sick-speechless.html

[PavePusher]

31. I guess no-one would ever need to...

defend themselves against criminals in Chicago.

Unless of course, you read the crime section of the newspapers. Or the stories of police abuse of citizens there.

But hey, whatever.

[yodoobo]

45. Compare Illinois to Ohio

Or Cleveland to Chicago.

I suspect the density of buildings per block in Chicago is similar to Cincinnati or Cleveland.

You may be surpised to learn that Illinois has farmland too.

I support gun buybacks and gun control, but your comparison isn't exactly honest.

[DonP]

6. What a coincidence! - We have an AR-15 Carbine shoot on Sunday.

Daley is trying to confiscate, "no questions asked", so called "Assault Weapons" and we're using them for a target contest.

I always find the "no questions asked" kind of ironic. If I was really a bad guy, what a deal. I get rid of a crime gun that the cops could connect to me and convict me of a shooting and in return the City of Chicago gives me $100. There will be no assault weapons turned in or anything else of any value ... or danger. The cops have a few that they put on the display table, replete with Airsofts and other "prop" guns.

I wonder if Daley is going to show up at the ISRA Range in Bonfield with Father "Flaky" Pfleger to offer us $100 for our rifles?

Since there will probably be more than 60 of us there with those deadly assault weapons I'm sure that violence could break out at any moment,

Anybody with an M4gery is welcome.

http://www.isra.org/tnirl/09ar15carb.pdf

There's a "Doughboy" match in a couple of weeks for '03 Springfields for the more traditionally minded.

[rl6214]

12. $100?

Shit, I'll drive up there and double that or even triple that if I can buy an "assault weapon". You would have to be a total moron to turn in an "assault weapon" for a $100 debit card.

[spin]

18. Almost like trading a $20 gold piece for a $100 debit card...

$20 Saint Gaudens Gold Coins
With Motto, Certified MS-63... $1,805



Colt AR15 $1,589.00

[SteveM]

15. Funny, the U.S. and Mexico both have strong anti-drug laws...

and they border each other. Yet, the pot still keeps rolling in. I'm doing my dead-level best to interdict the flow.

[PavePusher]

33. "Confiscation" or "purchase" for personal use...

is not "interdiction", my friend...

:rofl:

[SteveM]

36. Well, it sure doesn't get past me! (nt)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Daley always was a lying cheap a** bitch

[jmg257]

32. A $100 debit card??? I can get 10x that easy- & in cash - in Mexico. Screw you, Daley!! nt

[spin]

34. A "feel good" buy back program...

at least Daley is doing SOMETHING about the problem.

[oneshooter]

35. How can Chicago, Mayor Daley, or

anybody else "buyback" something that they never owned or sold?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[DissedByBush]

42. Is anyone using "assault weapons" in Iraq and Afghanistan?

You'd think they'd be using military assault rifles, not the semi-automatic rifles our overlords allow us to own.

[benEzra]

43. Grandstanding, since rifle murders in the ENTIRE STATE are usually in the single digits.

In 2007, the latest year for which full data are available, there were 463 murders in the entire state of Illinois. All rifles combined (including those Daley and the MSM would call "assault weapons") accounted for 4 (yes, four) of them.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_20.html