Concealed Weapons should be allowed in national parks for self defense against wildlife

[Tiggeroshii]

I believe New Mexico has done this?

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. To the contrary, I would feel unsafe there if they did such a thing.

[Tim01]

3. You are not safe now, regardless of how you feel.Parks are dangerous.

More dangerous than other places populated by people.

You should feel safer at the mall than you do in the park.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Anyplace there is some clown with a gun I don't feel safe, ok with you?

[Tim01]

7. It doesn't matter if it is ok with me. You are less safe in parks.

Don't you get that how you feel is not consistent with reality? Feeling does not make things real.

And it doesn't matter if I like reality or not. Parks are more dangerous than other places.

[slackmaster]

14. You are entitled to feel any way you choose to feel, but you don't have a right to feel safe

You are not entitled to control what other people do, as long as they don't infringe on your rights.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. I'd take my chances with any forest creatures over any asshole

who feels it's necessary to carry a gun in there. And your are right, as long as there are guns around nobody is safe.

[Katya Mullethov]

17. The assholes

The REAL assholes go out in the wild to hunt other humans , and some just go downstairs .

[Katya Mullethov]

27. Here's one that got himself smoked just yesterday

Man convicted of killing campers put to death

McALESTER — A man convicted of the 1995 slayings of two campers in southern Oklahoma whose bodies were burned beyond recognition was put to death Thursday. DeLozier was convicted of two counts of first-degree murder for the Sept. 24, 1995, deaths of Orville Lewis Bullard, 60, and Paul Steven Morgan, 54, whose charred remains were found by Morgan's wife at a campsite along the Glover River in southern Oklahoma.

According to court documents, DeLozier, 32, and two others ambushed Morgan and Bullard, firing shots from a .22-caliber rifle and a shotgun and then stealing a pickup truck, a generator and other camping equipment. DeLozier then set fire to the camp, prosecutors say.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20090709_12_0_McALES959048

You can beg and plead with 'em , but it's pretty much a crap shoot on the whole mercy thing .

[AtheistCrusader]

29. What happens when the 'forest creature' is some meth head running his lab

or pot grow op, and decides you don't need to be around anymore to tell anyone about it?

Bears don't scare me. Humans do.

[eqfan592]

32. You do realize...

...that disallowing CCW in national parks does nothing to actually prevent people intent on committing a crime from carrying anyway, right?

All you're doing is preventing the people that are honestly interested in safety and obeying the law from carrying.

So theoretically, you should not feel safe anywhere, anytime, based on your general logic.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Stay out of the state and national forests then.

You never know when I might be out and about.

[Tim01]

2. NPs have more violent crime than urban areas. Criminals are a threat. Not animals.

Wildlife? No, I am not going to conceal a 12guage slug gun for bears.

[FreakinDJ]

10. DING! DING! DING! - We have a Winner Folks

Can we say "Dope Growers"

I live in California and have spent the majority of my life living above the snow line in the Seirras.
I have to think twice about going out into the woods during the months of August, September, and October due to the vast number of cranked out, paranoid, citizens / illegal aliens, low-life peices of shit growing pot.

I have fond memories of the "Hippy Dippy Weatherman" and "Toledo Window Box" dope growers but that ended 30 years ago when a good friend was shot in the head driving to his garden

[Katya Mullethov]

16. Serbu Super Shorty ------ ntx needed

[ZombieHorde]

4. Why should the firearm be concealed? Do the bears recognize firearms and judge

whether or not to attack based on the weapon's caliber?

[benEzra]

25. Primarily so as not to alarm those who are frightened by the sight of firearms.

I have no desire whatsoever to alarm those who are nervous about firearms. To them, I'm merely the friendly guy with the glasses and graying goatee who is camping with his family or kayaking with his daughter. Being accosted or attacked in remote areas is exceedingly rare, but encountering people who have little experience with guns is not, and I have no wish to create attention or concern.

FWIW, I jumped through the hoops to obtain a carry license primarily so I that could defend my family from human predators, not animal predators. And from a tactical standpoint, I certainly would prefer that potential predators not know whether or not I am armed and what my capabilities are, in most situations (and if a situation warrants otherwise, I can always transition to open carry, though I have never found that necessary).

[AtheistCrusader]

31. Keeps people from getting upset/worried about the presence of firearms.

I expect that if someone encountered me in the forest (I go armed in national forests that are not national parks) and I was wearing a gun on my hip, they might mis-interpret my intentions. They might assume I am dangerous, OR they might assume I am some sort of authority figure.

I prefer to go concealed. No one should ever need to know I'm armed, unless I choose to draw the weapon, and then, only in grave need.

[eqfan592]

33. Unless you are going to claim that you'd be 100% OK with....

...open carry in parks, then your post is 100% useless. And somehow, I doubt you're going to agree with that. But, I have been wrong before. :P And it still isn't a good argument against CCW in any case (your post that is).

[ZombieHorde]

35. Why wouldn't why I be OK with seeing firearms? I live in MT, I see them often.

And it still isn't a good argument against CCW in any case (your post that is).

My post was not meant to be an argument.

[eqfan592]

36. Then you are the exception...

...and not the rule. :P

[ZombieHorde]

37. Most people seem to be confortable around firearms where I live.

I think region is a big factor on a person's view of firearms.

If I grew up in New York City or LA I may feel very differently than I do now.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

5. CCW should be allowed in parks, but not to defend against wildlife.

Why would the wildlife care if your firearm is concealed?

I contend that concealed carry law should be the same in national parks as it is in the juristdictions outside of them.
If the state does not allow ccw, then it should not be allowed in it's parks. Likewise, it should be allowed in states allowing ccw.
What makes a "national park" so different as to why the ccw law should be different than the lands surrounding the park?

[ThirdWorldJohn]

8. So then people will go just for the pleasure of killing any animal they please. Remember Carter was

attacked by a rabbit. So anyone could say any animal attacked them. And other people would probably be shot by mistake also. Hunters have done it and now must wear the bright red or orange.

[Tim01]

19. And gay marriage will be the downfall of our empire..

Come on, seriously.You are making up crazy scenarios based on hysteria. There is no need to imagine the kind of guy who will carry a gun into the national forest.

I am that guy. I am the one who doesn't make a big deal of it when you cut me off at the gas pump. I am the guy who opens the door for you and your kids at the restaurant. I am the guy who opens up traffic to let you in. I am the guy who stops and hangs out with your wife until the service truck shows up when she has a flat. I am the guy who lets you go ahead of me in the check out line because you are being a total dick to everybody because you are in a hurry. And I am always carrying a loaded gun.

Me shoot animals in a park? Don't be ridiculous.

[eqfan592]

34. Hey, wait a minute....

"I am the guy who stops and hangs out with your wife until the service truck shows up when she has a flat."

Hey, what are you doing hanging out with my wife??????

Lol, sorry man, just pullin your leg. Great post :)

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Hunters co-exist in the National Forests, with people hiking and camping.

The hikers and campers are not required to wear 400 square inches of blaze orange. Yet we co-exist. Accidents are incredibly rare, and usually a combination of reckless behavior and-or drinking.

[Statistical]

9. New Mexico?

National Parks are federal land. Obama already signed a bill that allows carrying weapons into NP but it doesn't go into effect until Febuary.

Also could you have posed a more biased push poll.

How about

Conceal carry should be allowed in National Parks for licensed CCW permitholders
Yes
No

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. I think two legged vermin are more of a threat.

[murphymom]

12. I always thought one of the reasons

to have national parks was to protect the wildlife from US.

[spin]

13. If I were worried about self defense from a grizzly bear...

or a mountain lion, I would want to carry something a little larger than what I normally carry concealed.

But there are ways to avoid being attacked by wildlife.

Since the fatal Bear attack on well known Bear Photographer Timothy Treadwell and his Girl friend Amie Huguenard in Kaflia Bay in Katmai Park Alaska Grizzly Bears and Coastal Brown Bears have got allot of attention and a bad reputation regarding there disposition. 99% of all Bear attacks resulting in fatalities have human error involved and bad judgment as in there unfortunate case every bear expert in Alaska agrees that they were very careless and in a very bad location to be camping with no bear fence or Bear Spray. With 35,000-45,000 bears in Alaska and people encroaching on there private space it is a wonder we don't have more Bear attacks. But it is very simple Grizzly bears and brown bears live there life in solitude most of the time with one driving force on there mind survive by eating as much as they can before the fall hibernation.

***snip***

The moral of the story is simple do not go Jogging-Biking Hiking-Fishing or any outdoor activity by yourself in the woods in Alaska. Whether being a man or woman you should always travel in a group of 3 or more and make noise in restricted visibility areas and you will be 100% safe as there has never been a recorded bear attack on a group of 3 or more people together. Grizzly Bears and Brown Bears are not hateful, spiteful, or malicious animals searching out humans


Bears are social animals and are considered not to be territorial as they share home ranges. On the other hand bears will defend their personal space and each social setting is often dictated by a social hierarchy. It must be understood that the bear is at the top of the food chain and have very few predators and fears. As many Bear viewing guides in the state know bears often don´t even look up as they walk the well worn paths of rivers and lakes. Not always being aware of their surroundings it is important that we as humans take precautions to let it be known where we are and not to surprise or get in a bears personal space. This page was not to scare anyone just give the straight facts regarding Bear attacks in Alaska . Visiting Katmai National Park is one of the safest places to visit especially since we never go with a group smaller than 3.

Sincerely Charle Summerville III

Owner/Head Guide Alaska Adventures
http://www.alaska-bear-viewing.net/bear_attacks.htm

I do remember a friend who was stationed while in the Air Force on the DEW line in Canada (Distant Early Warning Line). If he left the parameter of the radar station to go hunting or fishing, he was required to carry a weapon. He carried the minimum requirement a .357 magnum. His revolver was a beautiful nickle plated Colt Python.

A greater threat than the wildlife in national parks are two legged predators. Concealed weapons in the parks may discourage attack.

The National Park Service’s recent report revealed that 11 murders, 35 rapes, 61 robberies and 261 aggravated assaults occurred on parklands in 2006. Our parks also contain hidden methamphetamine labs, marijuana fields and illegal drug and illegal alien smuggling routes. In addition to these dangers and potential attacks from human predators, park visitors have to consider attacks from animal predators. Between April and December 2007 there were at least a dozen grizzly bear attacks reported by park visitors. Today, 31 states allow the carrying of firearms in state parks – all with safe and satisfactory results.
http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/self-defense-doesn-t-stop-in-national-parks

There is already poaching in the National Parks. The poachers probably carry weapons that can't easily be concealed such as rifles.

Increasingly organized gangs of poachers are killing wildlife, yanking up plants and stealing valuable bits and pieces of the nation's parks, threatening the biological diversity and cultural heritage they were created to protect.

Black bears have been slaughtered in Shenandoah National Park in Virginia for their gallbladders, used in traditional Asian medicines. Nearly every week rangers in Big Cypress National Preserve in Florida stumble upon headless carcasses of alligators butchered for their skulls and tail meat. Cactus rustlers are depleting prized saguaro and barrel cactus from Southwestern parks to feed demand from the domestic landscaping market and cactus collectors in Europe and Japan.

***snip***

"The commercialization of wildlife has raised the monetary value of wildlife to criminal organizations all over the world," Jones said. "The same people that kill sea turtles to sell the meat and carapace are the same people smuggling narcotics and illegal aliens."

Numbers are hard to come by, but federal authorities said they believe the vast majority of poaching goes undetected. "When you see the top of the iceberg above the waterline," Jordan said, "it's hard to know how much is below the water that we can't see."
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/general/news/story?page=c_fea_parks_national_poachers_steal_Lowy

[rrneck]

18. Good info. Thanks nt

[ManiacJoe]

20. Against wildlife, no.

However, concealed carry in the parks was never about the wildlife, it is about the criminals you might come across well out of police range.

[proteus_lives]

21. It's not about the critters.

I would carry in a national parks because I'm miles away from any police or other authorities.

[benEzra]

22. WTF did you limit the poll to "self defense against wildlife"?

I'd be a whole lot more concerned about predators of the 2-legged variety than the 4-legged variety.

My own father had a "save" with a lawfully carried handgun in the Croatan National Forest when I was a child. The two human predators stalking him saw he was armed, backed off, and left.

I do think that if you are attacked (not merely bluffed) by an animal predator, it is acceptable to use a weapon to defend yourself if you have one, but that is most certainly not the primary purpose of carrying one. And a typical defensive style handgun is not powerful enough to stop a bear...

[slackmaster]

23. I suspect the OP did that to make it inflammatory

;-)

[jeepnstein]

24. It's not the four legged animals that are the problem.

It's the meth cookers, marijuana growers, weirdos, and thieves that present the most serious threat. There are some interesting types who like to hang out in the woods.

Wild animals doing what it is they do are very little threat to humans. Now if a human decides to give that baby grizzly bear a tummy rub, they get what they deserve.

[chibajoe]

26. Exactly, it the two legged animals that worry me.