Poll: I feel safer with a "cocked and locked" firearm in my home.

[armyowalgreens]

On Edit: I'm attempting to judge the reassuring effect of having a loaded firearm in ones home

[MrModerate]

1. How about "I don't allow guns in my house and that makes me feel safer" ? n/t

[armyowalgreens]

2. That would fall under "Other"...

And it's a perfectly okay position to take.

[Staph]

4. You and me both.

I don't own a gun, don't want to own a gun -- they scare me.

However, I have some friends who own a Civil War replica cannon. I have fired it. I want one.

[MrModerate]

6. Similarly, I own a Japanese rifle that my father brought back from WWII . . .

I've never fired it, and I keep it in locked storage offsite, but it's sort of an heirloom

[DonP]

53. FWIW, that would be an Arisaka

Last week I inherited my uncle's USMC WWII "Bring Back" Arisaka complete with sword bayonet and dust cover with the Imperial Crysanthemum intact.

Interesting piece of history. I have a WWII rifle collection and will restore it to safe working order, but finding ammunition is going to be another matter.

[E-Mag]

56. you should be able to find new production

ammunition but be willing to pay $$ for it :(

[MrModerate]

97. Mine is a bit more battered -- It had been rode hard and put up wet . . .

And I think at some point the owner had tried to use it to whack someone over the head.

According to my father, the owner wasn't successful and didn't experience an especially happy outcome.

[guardian]

57. does that make you

a blood thirsty "cannon nut"?

[DrDan]

20. I am with you

[RandomThoughts]

3. Most fear is created in ones own mind.

Some people find that a loaded firearm can assuage that fear, others realize most of the time the fear is an illusion outside of perspective.

But gun ownership is a right in constitution so it is each persons choice. I don't see them as necessary, but that is just my view.

[Uben]

5. All guns locked up....

..and unloaded. I don't own guns because I'm afraid of anything, so I keep them under lock and key and never leave one loaded. I own guns because I was a hunter in years past, and I inherited a lot of them from my dad, who inherited some from his dad, and I have one from my great granddad, and one from a great uncle. So, guns are part of my heritage, you could say. I had ancestors who fought in the Alamo.

[cyclezealot]

7. guns and safety

Every time i've been attacked it was from behind and a surprise.. Statistics just are not on the side of gun proponents. more victims die by their own guns than are protected by them.

[armyowalgreens]

8. Just inquiring but do you have a link for evidence?

[pipoman]

15. Yea

I am interested in a cite for this too. I have heard it before, think it's bullshit dreamed up by the likes of the Brady Bunch or VPC. I see story after story of home owners defending themselves with guns, I don't recall the last story I read about a home owner killed by an intruder with their own gun.

[armyowalgreens]

26. I found this...

http://gunowners.org/sk0701.htm

[pipoman]

94. Ohhhh,

that's right, I remember now, the Kellerman study...long, long ago completely debunked.

Thanks for the memory jog. Isn't it amazing how long a lie can stay afloat, and how slowly the truth spreads?

[benEzra]

32. Only if you count suicides. Guns are almost never taken away from homeowners and used against them.

If you are not a criminal, not at risk of suicide, and bother to become even passably competent, the firearm does provide a net safety benefit.

[TheWraith]

96. Um, no, that's completely not true.

There are by ANY set of statistics at least 1 million defensive uses of firearms a year in the US, possibly as many as 4 million. The number of people who are murdered with their own guns, despite urban legends, is virtually nonexistant.

[rl6214]

98. That's just bullshit

Can you provide any evidence to support this?

[Demit]

9. Hell no.

[ixion]

10. keeping a firearm is one thing... keeping a loaded firearm is another

I have a shotgun, but it's not loaded. I grew up with shotguns and rifles on our farm, and was taught never, ever, ever to keep a loaded weapon in the house.

[armyowalgreens]

12. Doesn't that create a problem if you want it as home protection?

Or do you not see the need for home protection?

[RC]

13. I don't have any guns and have never had the need to protect myself from

intruders. I have live in an government project apartment building with all nationalities and languages all around me, for over a decade.

[ixion]

yes, I do see the need

that does not change what I was taught both by my father and in the gun safety courses I had to take before I could carry a shotgun in the field.

a) It's not good for the gun to remain in a loaded position over the long term;

b) it's just asking for trouble.


You're welcome to do what you please, of course, it's your house. But I wouldn't have a loaded weapon lying around.

[E-Mag]

27. I am wondering what

he said would go bad on the gun if left loaded? As stated earlier I would assume a majority of a Cops pistol and shotgun life is loaded.

[Tim01]

40. I am glad you have an unloaded gun instead of no gun.

Even if I don't agree with you about it being loaded. You do have a gun you could load if you needed to.

[jeepnstein]

44. A good shooter...

who's used to handling a shotgun can load one fast and on the move.

Most gun owners tend to err on the side of safety, and that is a very good thing. Wanna bet ixion still picks up his shotgun and treats it like it's loaded even when he knows it's his practice to never leave it in that condition? Am I right?

My home safety plan involves layers of security with resorting to a firearm as the last and most dire extreme. I'm very comfortable with the assumption that I will get through the rest of my life without having to use a firearm in defense of my home and family. Is this a great country or what?

[ixion]

46. you are correct, jeepnstein

on all points you made, IMO.

My home defense plan is very similar to yours, in that the shotgun would be the absolute last resort.

[benEzra]

82. It is impossible to store most shotguns hammer/striker down on a loaded chamber...

and even if you could, most shotguns lack firing pin safeties. Hence the advice to store a shotgun chamber empty, magazine loaded. That is the way most rifles are set up as well, and the carbine in my safe is stored that way.

The same is not true of most pistols. My S&W, for example, is designed to be stored/carried long term with the chamber loaded and the hammer down, ready to fire when the trigger is pulled. It is fully drop-safe with the manual safety in either the on or off position, due to the internal passive safeties.

[michreject]

85. That's simply not true

a) It's not good for the gun to remain in a loaded position over the long term;

It has no bearing what-so-ever.

[Statistical]

59. Simple compromise. Loaded & Securely Stored

http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/a0/fc/3f/68260564-300x300-0-0_Gunvault+Deluxe+Single+Gunvault+Safe+MiniVault+Del.jpg

It won't stop a determined thief but it does put the weapon in a secure location to avoid accidents.
It has 4 finger pad combination that I can open in about 2-3 seconds even when woken awake.

Unlike the stupid photo I keep nothing in the gunvault except the self defense pistol with loaded magazine and round in chamber.

The weapon is Springfield XD with trigger safety & grip safety. It won't fire unless you are holding the weapon and pull the trigger.

Safety and speedy access.

[eilen]

11. We have guns but they are locked up and I can't even access them.

My dh's hobby is target shooting, it is competitive and he is in a league. I guess I feel safe knowing that he is proficient and knows not only how to use but be safe with guns. My brother and stepfather used to hunt so I grew up with rifles and shotguns in the house. It doesn't bother me. Sometimes I wish my dh hunted if just for the relief on the grocery bill-- fill the freezer. It does make one feel more self-sufficient.

None of my family members walked around with guns in public, kept one in their car or anything like that. I don't think that is appropriate and provides opportunity for things to go very wrong.

Ammunition is so expensive that my dh had to sit out this league season. His guns have not seen the light of day since he cleaned and oiled them last year.

[burrfoot]

16. What's "dh" ? n/t

[eilen]

21. dh= dear/damn husband. nt

[DrDan]

23. "designated hunter" - doesn't hunt herself - has someone do it for her

[iverglas]

75. yeah, that's consistent

with what she ACTUALLY SAID:

Sometimes I wish my dh hunted

... not.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Just locked...

[jpak]

17. Anyone that keeps a cocked and loaded firearm anywhere is an idiot

a complete idiot

[adadem]

24. Ditto n/t

[armyowalgreens]

25. You do realize that police officers firearms are "cocked and locked" right?

[slackmaster]

43. Well, that's different

Police officers are the government, and we all know that government having more power is always good.

:sarcasm:

[benEzra]

63. Only if they carry 1911's, old Brownings, or some Tauruses...

since "cocked and locked" is a Jeff-Cooper-ism for a 1911 pattern pistol in Condition One (chamber loaded, hammer cocked, safety on).

[old mark]

29. Anyone who DOESN'T keep a loaded firearm around the home

is an idiot.
And living in a fantasy world.


Probably has a small dick, too.

mark

[jpak]

34. Cocked and loaded idiots live in a small dick fantasy world

just sayin'

[dmallind]

35. The most popular semiautomatic brand has no lock per se

They are used by a large plurality of LEO's and a very great number of CCW permit holders. They don't go off unless you pull the trigger. Why are they any less safe? What makes people who carry them idiots? Never mind what correlation is possible between that and endowment. That of course is simple projection.

[jpak]

38. read the thread

it's about guns in general and small dicks in particular

[benEzra]

64. Yeah, my wife's is pretty small...

that's why she keeps a Glock 26 for personal protection (and knows how to use it), and why a third of U.S. gun owners are women.

But keep believing that if it makes you feel better about yours.

[slackmaster]

42. Anyone who makes snap judgements about other peoples' choices based on scant data

Has an inflated sense of his or her level of maturity and wisdom.

[jpak]

45. I participated in NRA marksmanship and hunter safety programs as a kid

Even NRA nut-bags know that anyone that keeps a cocked and loaded gun in the house is a complete fucking fool and a series candidate for a Darwin Award.

There I said it

[inkool]

55. You said somthing that is for sure.

You leveled an insult at NRA members and used them as an appeal to authority in the same sentence.

[eqfan592]

74. I've taken the same class...

...and was never told any such thing. Your credibility continues to diminish. Please, continue. I'm sure another "small dick" reference is just around the corner. :)

[jpak]

95. If that's true...your instructors had teeny weeny penises

the teenyist of weenyists

:D

[Tim01]

86. Anybody who thinks the world is safe is an idiot. nt

[pipoman]

18. We keep a loaded shotgun

we don't have young kids. We keep it because we live in a rural area and often have coyotes come in our yard looking to grab our cats and chickens. Oh, and the occasional skunk which are a real rabies issue around here. We would, obviously, use it for defense but that isn't the primary reason for keeping it loaded.

[zbdent]

19. I don't know ... I just healed up from trying to put lipstick on my pit bull ...

[dipsydoodle]

22. Simple possession of a firearm

is illegal in the UK - so "no."

[benEzra]

37. No, you can own certain firearms, but you must store them unloaded and secured per regulations.

Sniper-style rifles and large-bore shotguns are still legal there, and target shooting and shotgun sports are still rather popular among the small minority with enough money and free time to jump through the hoops necessary for ownership. Many UK gun enthusiasts find it easier to store their guns in Switzerland or France and travel there for shooting, though.

This is in the UK, FWIW:





http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html

[dipsydoodle]

47. Yes - I'm aware of that stuff

Oddly enough there's a team coming over from the USA , this month I think , to compete in an international competition of some description here and I'd wondered how they get on coming through customs.

Dunno how much you know about long distance shooting in the past but wasn't there some riflemen in your civil war who could shoot accurately over vast distances all that time ago ? If you do know then what was their name ?

[benEzra]

50. Yes.

Civil War Snipers

Telescope-sighted rifles were first used in combat during that conflict, as I recall, and the use of breechloading repeating rifles was probably the first in a major conflict as well.

FWIW, the American movie Quigley Down Under shows what can be done with 1860's-1870's technology, and while there is a little bit of artistic license in that movie, most of the shots Quigley makes are reasonably realistic.

In 1874, buffalo hunter Billy Dixon shot a Comanche warrior off his horse at a distance of between 1,200 and 1,600 yards using a .50 caliber Sharps rifle, similar to the one Quigley used in the movie, but admittedly there was a bit of luck involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Adobe_Walls

[dipsydoodle]

51. Thanks for the link - much appreciated.

Whole article is really interesting right down to the bit about hexagonal bullets which I'd think must've been truly destructive. I've mentioned to friends the sort of distances those boys could shoot from what I'd picked up from TV documentaries only to get the look of "are you stupid or what".

[benEzra]

58. Those Civil War bullets were destructive indeed, even the regular round ones.

Remember that the muskets used soft lead projectiles, so they expanded as well as or better than a modern hollowpoint bullet, and they were typically around .69 caliber before expansion. Fully expanded, the bullet could approach an inch across, and this was in a day before blood transfusions, antibiotics, and anesthetics, with only the most primitive surgeries available to aid in survival.

On a per-capita basis, the United States lost more people in the Civil War than in every other war we have ever fought combined, and I believe even in absolute numbers the Civil War deaths may come out ahead. Ambrose Bierce described some of the horror of that war in some of his work (the story "Chickamauga" comes to mind).

[E-Mag]

61. Part of that is because

We count deaths on both sides as U.S. deaths if i remember correctly. I do however believe you are correct.

[E-Mag]

62. Here is a Wiki answers link with some numbers

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_war_claimed_the_most_lives

[old mark]

28. I have 18 guns in my home, some in a safe, several loaded and

accessable. I have had at least one gun in a ready state for decades. I have a license to carry a firearm, and have done so for over 15 years.

I respect the right of people who don't like guns to not have any, and I expect the same in return. Don't see much of it, however.

mark

[benEzra]

30. A loaded firearm and "cocked and locked" are not the same thing.

The latter term refers to a single-action pistol like a Colt Model 1911 or a 1930's Browning Hi-Power 9mm with a round in the chamber, the hammer back, and the safety on.

My wife and I keep firearms in the home, secured in such a way that our children or unauthorized adults cannot access them. Handguns are generally chamber loaded, hammer down/striker uncocked, all safeties engaged; carbines are chamber empty but magazine loaded, safeties engaged.

And yes, it is reassuring to have the capability to defend oneself. FWIW, my wife does not subscribe to the 1950's "let my husband take care of me" school of thought; she is quite capable of defending herself.

[stray cat]

31. As a single female if I lived in the country with no neighbors - absolutely

I can understand why some people would want access to a gun - especially if there is no one nearby to help or hear if someone enters the house

[TheCowsCameHome]

33. Cocked, locked, and half-crocked.

That's a recipe........

[tularetom]

36. We have a problem with rattlesnakes here

So I keep a single shot .410 ga. shotgun in a cabinet right by the front door. It isn't loaded but there is a box of shells on the shelf right next to it. We used to lock the cabinet when our grandkids came over but they are all pretty much grown up now so we don't bother.

All the rest of the guns are in 3 safes.

[jeepnstein]

39. Do you know what "Cocked and Locked" means?

Or is is just a phrase you like to use?

I keep firearms in my home, in a locked safe. When I need one, I go get it. When I'm done with it, it is returned to the safe.

[armyowalgreens]

78. It means loaded and chambered with the safety on...

Why do you have another question to ask me?

[benEzra]

80. It means chamber loaded, hammer/striker COCKED, safety on.

Hence "cocked and locked".

Here is a 1911 that is cocked and locked:



Note that the hammer is fully back and under spring tension, so that after the safety is disengaged, all that is needed to fire the gun is a very short, light single-action trigger pull.

This pistol (mine) is chamber loaded, safety on, and is ready to fire when the safety is disengaged, but it is not cocked (and in fact is impossible to "cock and lock" as engaging the safety decocks the pistol):



When the safety is disengaged, a long, relatively heavy trigger pull is required to cock the hammer and fire the gun.

Striker-fired pistols such as Glocks are not usually fully cocked until the trigger is pulled, and they have no manual safeties, so they can't be "cocked and locked" either; nor can revolvers. I can "cock and lock" my AK, but it is just as fast to leave it chamber empty, magazine loaded ("Condition Three") and I prefer that from a storage standpoint.

"Cocked and locked", however poetic, is not synonymous with "loaded and ready to use", which seems to be the real question the OP was/is driving at.

[Statistical]

99. +1

My primary house gun is Springfield XD and my carry gun is Ruger LCP.

Neither have external manually safeties.

With handguns having multiple operating and firing mechnaisms the term "locked and cocked" has very little meaning today.

[jeepnstein]

104. Just curios...

I am wondering why that particular condition is of concern as opposed to simply a "loaded" firearm. Or for that matter what about the folks who just leave "unloaded" firearms lying about? Most of the people I know who have been accidentally shot were injured with a supposedly "empty" weapon.

My personal policy is that weapons are kept under lock and key when not in use. The assumption we use in my home is that a firearm is always loaded and handled accordingly. Even though I don't store my firearms loaded they are to be handled as if they are. The only exception to this is my primary duty weapon, a 1911, which is always stored loaded but de-cocked on the top shelf of my safe. Basically, it's either in a holster or in the safe at my home.

I also lock the door to my wood shop and unplug my table saw.

[slackmaster]

41. Other

Having a loaded firearm makes me feel neither safer nor less safe.

I don't often keep one loaded in my home, because I find the attention that a loaded firearm inherently requires, to be distracting. I prefer to keep my focus on other things.

[MineralMan]

48. 12 ga. shotgun in the bedroom closet.

5 rounds in the tube, but none in the chamber. I keep the shotgun with the action lock released and the slide pulled back just a little. Chambering a round just involved pulling the slide back then forward. Safety is off.

I figure the sound of the action should frighten off any sensible intruder. If not, too bad for him.

When we have guests with children, I completely unload the shotgun and put the shells in a lockbox.

[Jackson1999]

67. Shotgun Unloaded (question)

I keep an 870 in closet, unloaded because 1) part of the agreement with the Mrs., and 2) The way I have it stored, I need to grab it by the barrel and pull it towards me, which is out of my comfort zone. Right now I just have the shells in a box. Any suggestions for a fast loading system? I was thinking about getting one of those sleeves that goes on the stock, but was afraid it would interfere with mounting the gun.

[MineralMan]

70. I can't think of a way that would satisfy me.

With the chamber empty, I don't worry too much about it. I release the action, so it's less than a second to chamber a round in the dark. It's just my wife and me in the house, and she can handle the weapon just fine. We both know what the setup is and, as I said, it's unloaded completely before any children visit.

The last thing I'd want to do if there was an intruder in the house is fumble with shells, trying to stuff them into the magazine in the dark.

[jeepnstein]

71. There's another way...

Grab AR15, insert magazine, pull charging handle.

I keep a bandoleer of shotgun shells that I use when qualifying, it really cuts down on the fumbling. You might give one a try. The ones that are attached to the firearm are awkward. Here's what I'm using...http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=TE121

I prefer a simple lock box arrangement to keeping a firearm easily accessible to anyone who might stumble across it. Another idea that works is a cable lock through the ejection port and fastened to an eye bolt in the closet.

My house has layers of security that will buy me time to get the family to the safe area and barricade. Our efforts are focused on keeping intruders out of the house rather than dealing with them after allowing entry.

Crooks like easy targets. Make yourself uninviting. It's kind of like the old joke about two hunters running away from a bear. You don't have to outrun the bear, just your buddy. Lights, locks, alarms, doors, pets, window films, landscaping, neighbors, situational awareness, there are all sorts of things you need to consider before what kind of gun to repel a determined intruder.

[iverglas]

93. ah, just can't get no satisfaction

without that loaded gun.

And they accuse people of making shit up, eh?

[benEzra]

72. Shotgun speedloader:

I keep an 870 in closet, unloaded because 1) part of the agreement with the Mrs., and 2) The way I have it stored, I need to grab it by the barrel and pull it towards me, which is out of my comfort zone. Right now I just have the shells in a box. Any suggestions for a fast loading system? I was thinking about getting one of those sleeves that goes on the stock, but was afraid it would interfere with mounting the gun.

Shotgun speedloader for an 870:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=166659

Shells go in there, you stick the end of the tube in the loading port and shove the handle, all shells go in.

Personally, I would not store a gun in such a way that I had to point it at vital parts of myself in order to retrieve it, as that would be a violation of two of the four basic rules of gun safety, IMO. There are locking wall mount shotgun holders that go in a closet and lock around the action that might be another option, or something similar.

[Statistical]

77. Why not just load the magazine but keep the chamber empty.

Thus:
1) grab weapon w/ no round in chamber & safety on
2) cycle action = round in chamber
3) safety off & ready to engage

The weapon isn't cycled until you have control over it and it is pointed in safe direction.

[rrneck]

49. Other.

I live in a low crime area, so I feel pretty safe regardless.

Of course I can't speak for the particulars regarding the relative safety of others. That's their call to make.

The physical differences between simply having a firearm in the house and wearing a cocked and locked 1911 to the dinner table are not much. The tactical, emotional, cultural and societal factors involved in selecting a particular level of preparedness along that continuum are tremendous and best left to the individual owner.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

52. I generally have about four loaded firearms at most times

Sport utility rifle: 30 rounds in the mag with an empty chamber
.45acp 1911-A1 and 9mm Beretta 92 <--- All "cocked & locked"
My everyday-carry 9mm Glock does not have a hammer or safety... so it can never truly be "cocked & locked"

The "good stuff" resides unloaded in the safe.

[Deadric Damodred]

54. That's a definite "Yes".

Since I keep my firearms stored in safes, I keep the majority of them loaded and ready to go; though I do not chamber them (with the exception of revolvers, since they are always chambered). There are only a few that I don't keep loaded, such as my double barrel. The safety on it isn't indicative enough for my taste and the triggers are very light, so having it sitting there loaded makes me nervous. And since I don't have children, while I'm at home I always have at least one firearm near me at all times (and considering I have alot, depending on my mood for the day it could be anything from a revolver to a Glock to an AR-15 to my Saiga-12 shotgun, which is an AK-47 that is a 12gauge). So between that and the fact that even when home I keep the doors locked (well locked at that), one would have to be a real stupid bastard to try breaking in on me.

[SteveM]

60. Yes, with a stipulation. Revolvers are safer if uncocked...

They can be fully loaded and ready to fire without being cocked. Left cocked and loaded, they are hazardous.

To those interested, it is acceptable to have a firearm loaded and ready for fire in an easily-reached place. IOW, if a gun is to be used for immediate home defense, it is best NOT to lock it up. Certainly, if small children and other untrained individuals reside in the household, this would not apply. But if you live alone, or have older children/adults who are trained and experienced with firearms, then a loaded and "unsecured" firearm is acceptable.

Children should be taught early and regularly about gun safety and operation. They should fire guns, unload them, reload them. This is the best way to reduce and prevent firearms accidents in the home. According to the National Safety Council, childhood deaths due to accidental firearm discharge have been falling steadily and significantly for over 10 years, even as the number of firearms in civilian hands has grown by some 100,000,000. The chance your child will be a victim of a firearm accident in the home is less than that of drowning, falling, electrocution.

"We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected"
Henry David Thoreau

[Redneck Socialist]

65. Nah, I'm not into 1911's. n/t

[Buzz cook]

66. So why don't you have (please explain) after yes?

I don't leave my guns loaded, ever. I store my guns and ammo separately.

[aikoaiko]

68. I have loaded firearms in lock boxes for home defense.

There are three in different places in the house. They don't make me safer from attack. Their existence in my house any gives me options for handling a home invasion. They increase my efficacy for self-defense.

[iverglas]

69. Nah

I wouldn't feel safer.

I'd feel like a moroon.

Or maybe a really stupid dupe of the right wing, whose agenda includes getting me to feel all threatened and unsafe wherever I am, wherever I go ...

[rl6214]

100. A moroon?

Is that like a macaroon?

[iverglas]

101. I prefer the alternate spelling

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22what+a+maroon%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&num=30&q=%22what+a+moroon%22&btnG=Search&meta=

[proteus_lives]

73. Depends on the situation.

I keep a loaded pistol in the house but I live alone. My sister keeps her firearm unloaded because there are children in the house. I don't have to worry about that so I feel safe having my firearm loaded.

[spin]

76. I have five loaded weapons in the house...

Four revolvers, three .38's and one 9mm and one 1911 .45 auto which has no round in the chamber but does have a loaded magazine inserted.

The revolvers are not cocked. That would be unnecessary since all are double action and all I have to do is pull the trigger and they go "bang". I practice double action shooting and rarely cock a revolver for single action shooting unless I'm target shooting at a long range. A loaded and cocked revolver is also a possible safety hazard as it takes far less trigger pressure to fire the weapon.

All are locked in safes. My carry gun is in a quick access safe which takes me less than a second to open. The other loaded firearms are in safes that only take a few seconds to open. There are teenagers in the house, they have no access to the combination for the safes.

But I always treat all guns as loaded (until I verify they are not.) If I lay the gun that I am handling down even for a few seconds, I treat it as a firearm that has magically loaded itself.

I remember a friend stopped over one time and we were talking about handguns. Our conversation would drift off the subject and return. We could occasionally leave the room and return.

After two hours he said, "I've watched you check that same pistol five times to see if it's loaded while we have been talking."

I replied, "Yes, and If I lay it down again and leave it for a few minutes, you'll see me check it again."

Is it necessary to have that many loaded firearms? No, but it does no harm. Are all my firearms loaded? No.

[Optical.Catalyst]

79. I have no use for an unloaded gun

There is a loaded .357 revolver in the night stand.

There is a loaded .357 (S&W Model 60) in the dresser for a carry gun.

There is a loaded AMT .380 DAO Backup in the bathroom (the point of retreat in the house) also used for carry.

Everyone in the house knows how to shoot.

Everyone in the house knows were the guns are.

Everyone in the house knows were the extra ammunition is.

None of the guns needs to be 'cocked', and there is not a manual safety amongst them.

If company comes over, which is rare, all guns go in the safe unloaded except for the .380 which I keep in positive control of at all times.

[Indy Lurker]

81. I have firearms and young children in the house

The children have been taught never to touch a gun, but the guns (except for a crossman bb gun) are locked up.


I live in a reasonably safe neighborhood, have great neighbors, and I have good doors and locks.

Short of an assault (someone breaching the door or a window and running up the stairs)I'm confident I can get to a firearm before a typical burglar would make it upstairs.
So say under a minute.


This works for me, your mileage may vary.

[oneshooter]

83. Both my Loving Wife

and I have CCL's. At night she gets her Highpoint 995 out of the safe, I get a AR-15 out. Both have mags in and nothing chambered. The 995 is ugly but will chamber and fire any 9mm I have found, both carry red dot sights. Of course her Commander and my SIG remain available, 24hrs a day.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[iverglas]

87. "At night she gets her Highpoint 995 out of the safe, ...

... I get a AR-15 out.

Oh, please. Don't stop now. It's just getting good.

[burrfoot]

89. now,

iverglas, what do you mean by "it's just getting good"?

Your comment might be understood by some to be alluding to some sexual meaning behind oneshooter's words. However, as that is not actually clear, I would like to be sure that I truly understand the comment.

[iverglas]

92. I do believe

you truly understood the comment.

It's dark ... they're alone in the house ... she gets out her gun ... he gets out his gun ... now tell me you aren't feeling that old familiar tingling.

[burrfoot]

103. your kool-aid is weak with this post...

come on, that's so overplayed.

I like your point in your next post, though, about whether people who keep guns unsecured around the house lock them up when they leave, or just leave them out.
However, in the interest of precision, I suppose I should reply to that one in a reply to that one.

[iverglas]

109. c'mon now

Both my Loving Wife
and I have CCL's. At night she gets her Highpoint 995 out of the safe, I get a AR-15 out. Both have mags in and nothing chambered. The 995 is ugly but will chamber and fire any 9mm I have found, both carry red dot sights. Of course her Commander and my SIG remain available, 24hrs a day.

No kool-aid needed!

My loving wife ... at night ... gets (it) out ... nothing (on) ... (bed) chambered ... her Commander ... available 24 hours a day ...

Just make sure to have a cigarette close by.

[michreject]

84. Yes

I have eleven 1911's. I have one C&L'd in every room in my house (and my new Kahr P380 in my pocket).

[iverglas]

88. and you lock them away

in some form of reasonably secure storage facility when you leave the house, even for five minutes.

Because if you don't, you know that it's possible someone may break in and steal every last one of them while you're gone.

In fact, given how sure you seem to be that someone's going to try it while you're there, you must be absolutely positive that someone's going to try it someday soon when you're out.

And of course you want to do everything possible to ensure that a firearm of yours isn't used to rob one of your neighbours, or kill a kid standing in the crossfire of a gang shooting, or any other such tragic thing.

Well, not everything possible, of course, but you know.

[michreject]

90. No. I do not

Why would I put something I need in a seconds notice behind a lock?

[iverglas]

91. well, I don't doubt that is your answer

But just in case your reaction was a teeny tiny bit too knee-jerk, you might want to read the question again.

Let me try to help you. It went like this, with emphasis this time:

and you lock them away in some form of reasonably secure storage facility when you leave the house, even for five minutes.

Okay, it wasn't really a question. But you got that it was looking for an answer.

Yours was:

Why would I put something I need in a seconds notice behind a lock?

I don't know.

Why would you LEAVE IT AT HOME WHEN YOU'RE NOT THERE if you need it on a second's notice??

By the way, when do you need it on a second's notice?

You didn't say you "might need" it, you said you need it. Like, every second?

[burrfoot]

105. this, I think

is actually worth discussing.

I'm curious about how people secure their guns when not in the home, if they choose to have the guns unsecured when they are home?

Personally, only two of my guns are loaded- glock 17 and mossberg 12 gauge. The pistol is in a quick-access safe in the night stand, and the shotgun is locked in the safe in the closet. I know it's not tactical perfection by any means, but it works for me, and the benefit to my peace of mind knowing that all the guns are locked up at all times unless literally in my hands is worth the trade of the less than 5 seconds it takes to get the pistol out of the safe. YMMV.

iverglas brings up the point- intentionally or not- that a big vulnerability of the (for lack of a better term) "group-of-people-who-keep-guns-for-protection-be-it-in-the-home-or-on-their-person-in-public-if-legally-allowed-to-do-so-and-licensed-by-the-appropriate-authority" is the question "If you want to be able to buy whatever kind of gun you want, how are you going to keep it out of the hands of criminals?"

I'm hopeful that most or all of us here are able to say that we at least make reasonable attempts to keep our firearms safe? ("we" in this case being gun owners here on DU)

[burrfoot]

106. just to

clarify, I'm wondering how people secure their weapons when they aren't at home. I don't consider a weapon unlocked and nearby overnight to be a major risk, as long as it's not accessible by children.

[E-Mag]

107. Remember all safes are not created Equal

I would suggest bolting them to the floor and if possible put them in an area that the door side cannot be pried due to a wall or other obstruction.

The video shows how easy a determined and talented pair can open a safe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M&NR=1

[burrfoot]

108. I'm with you on that, E-Mag.

I'm making the use of the term "safe" to include any locked storage that cannot be broken into by hand (like a locked drawer on a wooden desk or something like that). RSC, firebox...all the way up to the Fort Knox f*^#ing bomb-shelter style vaults. Secure from anyone who doesn't have the combo, and not easily at hand for a thief.

Bolting to the floor is great, as is proper positioning. My school of thought runs along the lines that virtually no safe (that I can afford) will be actually, truly break-in "proof"; so my goal is to make it difficult enough that someone would rather steal something else/leave it alone because it will take too long to get in. Same concept as the night time lights around the house- they don't actually protect in any way other than that they make my home less attractive to a burglar than a home that can be approached in the dark.

[Statistical]

111. It depends on what your goal is....

if you want to prevent casual theft or accidental access I recommend something simple like gunvault. $150 prevents casual access, can be opened quickly at night. Good for a self defense weapon.

If you want real security most RSC (Residential Security Container) will fold like a tin can. A "safe" is a device rated by UL to last 15 or 30 minutes against tools or torch. Real safes cost $3000+ for a TL-15, $6000+ for TL-30.

I would look at it as:
Level 1) casual access (gun vault, most big box stores "safes", cost $100-$200).
Level 2) primative rushed attack (most gun "safes", all RSC, cost $400 - $2000)
Level 3) true safe ($3000 to $6000+, able to withstand a determined trained theif for 15 to 30 minutes)

Just be sure you know what you are buying.

Most $2000 RSC provide no more security than a $400 one. They just look more secure. That youtube video was a $2000 RSC.

Personally I have a gunvault (1 handgun) in bedroom and a bolted down RSC in office (everything else). The RSC is wired into alarm system so hopefully the thieves trip it. All my guns are insured because I think most thieves could steal my guns if they bypassed the alarm system.

[burrfoot]

112. Mine was

$300 at Lowes, and I'm aware of what it will and won't stand up to.

Is your gunvault the finger-button or the finger print? I guess the fingerprint version goes under the name bio-vault...I'd like to get one of those.

[Statistical]

113. I use biometrics at work and get about 5% first time failure rate.

I wont use biometrics for something my life may depend on.



I like it. Has 4 buttons on top you can set a code ranging from three to six? steps each step can be 1 or more buttons. So it has a high number of potential codes.

you could keep it simple like:
1, 3, 2, 4

or you can go more complicated like:
1+3, 2, 1+3, 4

It also has some nice features like a silent mode, an optional lockout after 3+ failed codes, it has a flashing light that lets you know if someone tried (and failed) to open it since last time you locked it.

I got an external power adapter so batteries only act as a backup. It also has an override key. Internal light and a spring loaded door make gaining access even at night easy. It isn't going to stop any determined thief but it will make casual theft or child accident less likely.

[burrfoot]

114. ouch!

Definitely do not to be dealing with wondering whether it will open. Will just practice my finger buttons. Mine is almost identical to yours in the pic, but without the multiple use buttons.

Thanks for the heads up on the bio-vault.

[benEzra]

102. So, let me see if I understand you correctly.

If you lock your guns away and get them out of the safe before you go to bed, you are sexually deviant. If you do NOT lock your guns away so that you don't have to get them out of the safe before you go to bed, then you are irresponsible.

Does that pretty much sum up your position?

[iverglas]

110. "sexually deviant"?

If you lock your guns away and get them out of the safe before you go to bed, you are sexually deviant.

You seem to have read something into my words.

I was merely reading what was there as metaphor. ;)

[Endangered Specie]

115. I think alot of people (myself included) prefer hammer down safety off or condition 3.

versus 'cocked and locked'.

[PT945]

116. I don't think I own a gun

thats NOT loaded.

[sylvi]

117. 12 ga. Defender

in the bedroom, loaded, chamber empty. Colt Compact Model .45 in the glove compartment, loaded, round chambered, not cocked.

The truth is I rarely think about either of them, and I certainly don't "live in fear." The Navy taught me to always prepare for a worst case scenario even if you don't expect it. That philosophy has served me well in many aspects of living.

[ThoughtCriminal]

118. Why "Please explain" for "No" and "Other"

but not for "Yes"?