Arizona Moves To Allow Concealed Gun In Bars

[Suji to Seoul]

PHOENIX – There was a time in the Wild West that cowboys had to check their guns before they could pull up a bar stool for a drink — rules that protected against the saloon gunfights that came to define the frontier era in places like Arizona.

But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.

The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster.

"This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_re_us/us_guns_in_bars

Yes, because heat, whiskey and a Glock are a good combination. Fuck the NRA.

[sharesunited]

1. Guns and alcohol abhorrent?

How about guns and aspirin?

How about guns and oxygen?

[Suji to Seoul]

12. Oxygen and aspirin don't make people violent

How many domestic disputes have an underlying cause of alcohol consumption?

I can just see some macho asshole get stupid if he thinks some guy is "checking out his girlfriend."

"Six people are dead and one wounded at a local bar as a man with a legally concealed weapon opened fire in the bar. He shot two people, killing one, while four more were tramped to death in the ensuing panic of gunfire. Witnesses say the shooter got angry when he thought another man was hitting on his girlfriend."

[TheWraith]

22. You can't drink if you're carrying. Ever. Anywhere.

So if you're worried about a legal concealed-carry licensee breaking that rule, then what makes you certain they won't carry in a bar right now?

In any event, you need not worry--legal concealed carry users have a lower rate of committing violent crimes than to police officers.

[Suji to Seoul]

23. CONCEALED WEAPONS. . .tell that to the GANGBANGER who conceals his weapon

UNDER HIS SHIRT AND GETS STUPID WHEN SOME GUY LOOKS AT HIS GIRLFRIEND!!!!!!

Weapons and bars are STUPID!!!

[X_Digger]

25. And a 'gangbanger' is going to follow the law today? n/t

[Suji to Seoul]

28. Following that logic, murder should be legal, since murderers don't care

that murder is illegal.

I am tired of these logically flawed arguments that "gun laws only hurt the law abiding."

Guns in bars is a recipe for disaster. . .law enforcement and I, for once, agree.

You enjoy going to bars with people packing heat.

[X_Digger]

31. You're the one who brought up 'gangbangers'

As a group, legal CHL holders (not folks who just stick a pistol in their jeans) are more law-abiding than even law enforcement officers.

[Suji to Seoul]

36. talk to me when they are drunk and some guy looks at his wife with leering eyes.

Guns don't kill people. . .I forgot.

An alcohol makes me people more rational and clearheaded.

[X_Digger]

37. You're missing the point..

.. if you're asserting that CHL holders are likely to be involved in altercations, analysis of states that monitor such license holders suggests they don't.

Feel free to tell me what you _think_ will happen, and I'll keep reminding you what actually _does_ happen in those states.

[Suji to Seoul]

38. One time and the "chance" of it happening is why YOU are missing the point

I don't care what the statistics say. . .alcohol and guns are a bad combination. I do not care if the have a CHL or not.

UNDERSTAND

GUNS AND ALCOHOL ARE A BAD COMBINATION!!!

[Tim01]

39. There are already lots of states that prove you are uneducated.

It doesn't matter how scared you are of guns in bars. The fact is that it is a non issue in the places that allow it.


Reality, and how you think things are, are not the same.

[Euromutt]

40. Someone always brings that one up...

...and why anyone thinks it makes sense is entirely beyond me.

There is an obvious difference between homicide and carrying in establishments that serve alcohol, in that homicide by definition involves inflicting harm upon another. Yes, there is a risk--a severe risk--attached to having people be armed while drinking. That is why there is rule remaining in place that, if you're armed, you can't drink. The kind of person who was going to obey the law on not carrying in a bar will also be the kind of person who will obey the law about not drinking while he's carrying. The kind of person who will not obey the rule about not drinking is also the kind of person who wouldn't obey the existing law about not carrying in a bar. And that kind of person probably doesn't have a concealed carry permit to begin with.

Bottom line is, the activity that brings risk to others--combining alcohol and firearms in the same person--remains illegal.

[Statistical]

32. Um gangbanger likely is a felon thus already breaking the law.

He also has no CCW so breaking another law.

So 2 laws broken + the law on shooting someone.

Someone who is willing to break 3 laws would just as likely break 4 laws.

They are called a criminal for a reason.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/criminal

crim⋅i⋅nal /ˈkrɪmənl/
–noun
6. a person guilty or convicted of a crime.

Synonyms: 6. malefactor, evildoer, transgressor, culprit, felon, crook, hoodlum, gangster.

[d_b]

2. great news

let these silly fucks drink themselves stupidER and then shoot each other in the face. that's the final red state solution if you ask me.

[MADem]

3. What could possibly go wrong?

:rofl:

It's funny until something does....

[friendly_iconoclast]

26. Massachusetts allows guns in bars, explain to us why it's (not) a problem here.

Didn't know that, amirite?

Aside from the infamous 'last supper' at a 99 restaurant (local chain), ISTR few shootings in bars, whether
by CCW owners or not.

And the 99 shooting was a "business dispute" amongst people who weren't carrying legally to begin with...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. CCW Permit Holder Stops Mass Murder In Progress (In a bar)

Three Men Killed in Winnemucca Shooting on Sunday

Deputies with the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office are investigating a shooting in Winnemucca early Sunday morning that left three people dead and others injured.

The shooting happened at the Player's Bar & Grill on South Grass Valley Road.

Investigators say a feud between two local families is behind the early-morning shooting inside the bar. Three men from Winnemucca died from gunshot wounds, and two others are in critical condition at the hospital.

Deputies say about 2:25 a.m., 30-year-old Ernesto Villa Gomez walked into the bar and starting shooting. 20-year-old Jose Torres and his 19-year-old brother Margarito Torres were killed. When Villa Gomez was reloading his semi-automatic gun, a man from Reno took out a gun and shot Villa Gomez. That man has a concealed weapons permit.

http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=8378732


So this is the 41st state to allow this and yet the sky hasn't fallen.

David

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. The families involved in the fued, not the CCW shooter. Thanks for playing though.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. The sky is falling the sky is falling, fail. 41 states have these laws, no widespread problems.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. So it would have been better if he had been allowed to kill everyone in the bar and walk away?

[aikoaiko]

5. The guncarriers are not allowed to consume alcohol while in the bar.

Its been the law in several states and its not been a big deal.

[provis99]

7. so if they're concealed guns, how will bar owners know not to serve them?

:eyes:

[armyowalgreens]

10. CCW holders are fairly responsible...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. It's up to the permit holders to obey the law not the bar owners.

[aikoaiko]

19. Its not the bartenders responsibility

:eyes: right back at you.

[slackmaster]

34. It's incumbent on the permit holders to comply with the law

The weapons have to stay concealed.

[bemildred]

8. Evolution in action.

It's true that it's messy, but it's how we got this far.

[madrchsod]

15. i bet the police love this new bill....

never underestimate the stupidity of grown men and women in a confined space....

that would be the arizona legislature

[Statistical]

33. Police in the other 40 states seem to be doing OK

[defendandprotect]

16. Hey, "Wild West America" . . . guns for everyone -- !!!

[marybourg]

17. But the same wingnut legislature is also trying to do away with

the very background checks, training and proficiency tests they're so piously citing as reasons why we should all be willing to be protected by these gun-toting rednecks. Lying hypocrites.

http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/297688

[Booster]

18. This is such a good idea. Can't imagine what could go wrong.

[Tim01]

20. Ha ha ha! BLOOD IN THE STREETS!!! Ha ha.

There is no need to wonder what will happen.
There are already plenty of states that allow carry in bars. What happens in those states? Nothing.

Oh, but maybe Arizona is filled with criminals and mental defects so they will experience something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the rest of the country. Arizona maybe has magic borders.

Maybe ONLY in Arizona having guns in bars turns ordinary people into murderers. And I would guess that in Arizona gay marriage destroys the fabric of society and causes the fall of the empire. Because Arizona has magic borders.

Or maybe not.

[Redneck Socialist]

29. posted in wrong spot

oops

[AtheistCrusader]

21. Welp. This bill would have helped me on more than one occasion.

You see, I carry concealed, pretty much all the time I am not at work. (My employer does not allow, so to, from, and at work, I do not carry)

I don't drink. Well, that's not true, when I go to Vegas, in the casinos, I will both smoke and drink, but for all practical purposes, I do not drink. Especially not in bars. Therefore, I am the ULITMATE DESIGNATED DRIVER(TM), and much desired by my friends for this purpose, because the bars are far and few between here, taxis are expensive, and DUI's are treated like you burned down an orphanage.

Well, here's my problem. I can't legally carry when we occasionally go on a social outing to a bar or two. I would either have to leave it at home, or in the car, where it might be stolen. I do have a safe in the car, but then someone might see it while I transfer it from my person to the safe, etc.

So anyhow, this change in the law would be good for me, personally, because I do not drink, I do carry, I do have occasion to be in a bar, while carrying and not drinking, and my criminal history (including parking and speeding tickets) consists of one line: "No Record Found". So this would be great for me.

For others? Iunno. I'm guessing the people too stupid to be responsible under this law, are probably carrying in bars anyway.

[benEzra]

24. Well, I see the OP was successfully spun...

As in the majority of states, this is about allowing people authorized by the state to carry firearms, to carry them in nice restaurants, rather than just diners or fast-food joints; it is not about enabling shoot-em-ups by drunks at the bar. Hopefully we'll get that passed here in NC in the near future. Most states word it such that consumption of alcohol/drunkenness by anyone carrying is illegal, but this way you don't have to stand outside the door and ask if the restaurant has a wine list before you can enter.

[spin]

27. Well in Florida, you can carry concealed in a restaurant...

that serves alcohol but not into the dedicated area of the restaurant that's a bar.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Handguns will soon be allowed in bars and restaurants in Tennessee under a new law passed by state legislators who voted to override the governor's veto.

The legislation that takes effect July 14 retains an existing ban on consuming alcohol while carrying a handgun, and restaurant owners can still opt to ban weapons from their establishments.

Thirty-seven other states have similar laws. emphasis mine


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gmkVl3zfESA7KLnLPmvdVjAaXz4QD98KG5J00

THIRTY SEVEN other states have similar laws!

Sometimes the anti-gun crowd reminds me of the medical insurance industry and their attempts to derail health care reform in this country.

[Redneck Socialist]

30. Perfectly legal in my state

The bars don't run red with blood here.

Much a do about nothing.

[Tim01]

35. In New Jersey you can't pump your own gass because it is too dangerous

At least that is the way it was last time I was there for school.

Everybody in Va had been pumping their own gas for as long as I could remember. But the govt. in the nanny state of Jersey figured the whole city would burn down if the retarded common people tried it.

And now we have guns in bars all across the country with no trouble.But in Arizona it is going to be "different".