This video makes me shudder - Gun Class Darwin Award Candidate

[RamboLiberal]

Yes it is for real. Yes this is live ammo, not simunitions or blanks. And these people are just average mostly civilian students, some with not a lot of gun training. If I was asked to do something like this in a gun class I'm walking off the line and asking for a full refund.

This video is being widely discussed across the gun webs and the owner of this school from what I've heard is now trying to get it scrubbed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqboR6gjOi8&feature=player_embedded

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. WTF?!

I want to see the pictures that guy took. LOL

[Turbineguy]

2. How many pictures

have holes in them?

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Better than holes in the photographer.

Just sayin . . .

[aikoaiko]

3. lol. check out the 'sabrina' with finger on trigger the entire time.

That alone tells me those shooters were not disciplined enough for that cameraman to be where he was.

No harm no foul.... this time.

edited to add: Sabrina reference

[Euromutt]

11. In defense of "Sabrina" there...

...if he'd kept the weapon at the low ready, he'd have been sweeping his classmates, which would also have been a no-no. That does not, however, mitigate the finger inside the trigger guard, or the fact that he was mucking about looking in all directions, changing mags, and doing everything except checking his Blackberry instead of firing his five shots and reholstering already.

[Tim01]

13. Stop threat,check 6 for hostiles, top off, then put the gun away.

He was following training. There are variations, but I can guess where he got that training.

[aikoaiko]

16. Is that what he was doing? He just looked lost.

I believe you, though.

[Euromutt]

19. Makes sense, but I have to agree with aikoaiko

The guy looks like he's just milling around; by the time he's checked his six, he might be in time to avoid that oncoming glacier. It probably doesn't help that he tops off, then re-engages the target. To paraphrase Tuco Ramirez, "you gotta shoot, shoot; don't swap mags."

Now you mention it, though, I notice the guy to his left doing it as well, just not taking all day to do it.

[benEzra]

17. More schools teach "sul" than "Sabrina" for a safe 360, I think.

Sul is also considerably lower profile. But I have to agree with you, there is "competent Sabrina" and "doofus Sabrina," and the student there appears to be in the latter category.

Can't believe the idiocy of the cameraman.

[RamboLiberal]

21. That school used to teach Sul which is pointing straight at ground

They always taught turning 180 to check surrounding area instead of just head turn after shooting.

[Tim01]

22. That is what I was thinking, but

I noticed many of the students are on their own as far as what they do.
I don't know, I am guessing.
But I have been in classes that had advanced students from other schools, and the people on the line end up doing different stuff as a result of the training.All safe, but different.
Some people are checking 6, some not. Some checking theirselves for injury, some not.
That is kind of the situation I see on the video.

Is that school not teaching Sul now? I use Sul.

[paulsby]

4. as a firearms instructor

i can just say WHAT THE #$()#$#($#($#($#($#$#($#########Q$(#$*(#$*U#$*#$???!!!

I seriously have a hard time believing this is real. This is beyond stupid. It's suicidal.

[RamboLiberal]

5. It's real - the school's website forum is busily trying to defend it

The owner, instructors, and students that have trained there. I read a huge thread tonight on AR15 forum about this. Was alerted yesterday when a local instructor sent a WTF email on this.

[paulsby]

7. it violates

every rule of common sense and firearms safety.

the closest we come to that, in police training, is the "live fire" house, which i got to use when i was in a specialized unit. as far as i know, patrol doesn't use it (i never have used it in patrol), where we move through an interior (heavily armored to prevent penetration) with another officer and an instructor (who does his best to be BEHIND the officers), and we move through the house and engage targets. it's far more dangerous than standard shoot from the line at a target type training, but we feel the cost/benefit tradeoff is acceptable because it's much more realistic.

[Euromutt]

12. Which school is this?

I'd like to know so I can avoid it--and anyone associated with it--like the plague.

[gorfle]

24. Tactical Response

Here is his response to the original video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R3t0wuLDWQ

[gorfle]

25. Here is their web site

http://www.tacticalresponse.com/

[X_Digger]

6. Damn, that's gotta be the most stupid thing I've ever seen!! n/t

[Deadric Damodred]

8. I really don't know what to say. I'm at a loss for words.

[donco6]

9. How insanely stupid can you be? n/t

[Tim01]

10. People would be surprised to find out how often.

How often drills like this are run in advanced combat pistol classes. I hadn't heard of anybody being hurt so far.
I have heard of people being hurt in other ways,usually in less advanced classes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Hopefully this wasn't an advanced class in the video

If it was, I'd hate to see the beginner classes. :scared:

[benEzra]

18. It's OK, the beginner class uses Super Soakers. (n/t)

[jeepnstein]

20. No way, no how.

If I was at a training session and they had a cameraman, much less one down range, I'd tell the school to stick it where the sun don't shine. There was enough trouble on that line without putting the cameraman in danger. The range master had no control and the students were clueless. How many instructors were on the line per student?

Nobody was checking their six. They appeared genuinely confused about the range commands and I can't say I blame them.

"Schools" like that are why you have some folks walking around thinking they are something they are not. The states are going to have to demand an accreditation and standards for firearms training "academies".

[gorfle]

23. Stupid, risky behavior for no good reason other than cool photos.

This was a stupid, risky move that achieved nothing more than possibly some menacing photographs. If they were really intent on getting some (down the barrel) action shots they could have quite easily set up a tripod with a video or still camera down range. Instead, they chose to put a live person down range.

I have never in my life seen or heard of this kind of behavior at a shooting range. Every shooting range I have ever been to or heard about follows they very common rule that when the range is declared "hot", no one is allowed in front of the firing line.

I don't care how that fellow tries to spin it, the bottom line is this: The photographer went downrange during live firing putting his trust in the shooters in front of him to be accurate and safe enough not to shoot him. This was a huge, stupid, unnecessary gamble.