Laying to rest a major falsehood about the lack of gun control in America

[virginia mountainman]

Some people around here think, that guns, have next to no, regulation, they are very wrong, I have long thought about, how to clear up this misconception I, am going to post a few scenarios, to show, just how easy it is, for an honest person, to run afoul of gun laws, and in some of these cases, can do big time, Federal time for it.

Example 1:

You live in Fairfax VA, you want to go target shooting at a local range, a friend in Silver Springs Maryland wants to go along too, You drive to their house, and pick them up, and drive back to the range in Fairfax, to shoot, and afterwords, you drive them home, all the while, you have your .22 in a case, in the trunk of your car...

If you do that, you are breaking MULTIPLE LAWS, in two jurisdictions....

Example 2:

You live in “ANY STATE”, you have an “out of state” family member over, your family member, wants to purchase a pistol that you have had, you KNOW, your family member has never been in any kind of trouble with the law, you also know that this family member, own several other firearms, and even happens to be a reserve deputy sheriff in his home state. You go ahead and sell him the pistol...

Congratulations!! You and Him, just committed a FEDRAL FELONY, the moment, he crosses the state line with the pistol...

Example 3:

You live in rural Illinois, you have your FOID card, and own a shotgun that you keep in a case in the living room, one day, a new neighbor comes over to visit and introduce themselves. In conversation, they talk about moving to town, from out-of-state, and how much they like the community, they notice your shotgun the case, and ask you about it. You are proud of the gun, and without hesitation, you get up from you seat, unlock the case, double check it to make certain that it is unloaded, and hand it too your new neighbor to look at. The neighbor looks it over, checks the action, comments on how nice the wood work is, and hands it back to you, and you lock it back in the case....

Congratulations!! You, and he, just broke the law in Illinois!!!! It is illegal to even TOUCH a gun in Illinois without a FOID card..

Example 4:

You live in rural Virginia, you are sitting on your front porch, in your rocking chair, pondering the recent break-up of you and your spouse. It was an ugly, emotional break up, made worse, by it being recent, and the meddling of her parents. As you sit in your rocking chair, one of your “in-laws” drive by slowly, and you hear them loling at you sitting on the porch, they stop the car, and yell something at you out the window, in a moment of anger, you yell back. “Keep it up, I am going to send you all to HELL!” will pointing at them with your finger.. They speed off, your still sitting in the chair, hurt, and upset...

Congratulations!! Because of the family relation, you just made a threat to your in-law, this is Domestic Violence in Virginia, if the nosy woman next door heard it, and can back up their story in court about you saying that, and your convicted of making that statement, you will loose lifetime rights to own any gun.. And you never even left the chair.....

Example 5:

You are a vet, with a spotlessly clean record,

You loan a semi-automatic rifle to a friend, and during a recent trip to the range, with the rifle, it malfunctions, and fires a few shots automatic, the friend, immediately puts the rifle up, but someone at the range hears it, and reports “Machine gun fire” the ATF gets involved, you suddenly find yourself, in trouble, because YOU PROVIDED the rifle, to your friend.. IT does not matter that the “event” cannot be repeated by the ATF, with the rifle, and that the manufacture, admits, that that modal can malfunction in that way if not properly maintained, and even goes to court for you...

You can be convicted of several federal firearms violations, and find yourself doing hard time, This is happening to one man right now, he is in prison.

There are many, many, ways to inadvertently “run afoul” of the law. It is a terrible falsehood that there is “little to no” gun control laws in America...

[The River]

1. There May Be An Ammo Shortage

but you've sure cornered the market on commas.

[bettyellen]

2. the "little to no" gun control is all about buying them, but you already knew that....

and btw, you should follow the local laws in you want to keep a gun.
and oh yeah. threatening your inlaws w/ death is never a good idea- for ANY reason, esp if you own guns. you think them laughing at you is good reason?! Jeeze, grow up!

[virginia mountainman]

3. The point of the post was..

To show how EASY it is to break the law....

BTW, the in-law threat, does not matter if you own a gun or not...you still loose a civil right...

EDITED LATER TO ADD:

If "gun control" was aimed at purchases, why all the restrictions? like the stupid "touch" restriction in Il?

Why the gun bans and confiscation, like New York was proposing, and actually happened in California?.....

Why all the super strong penalties for doing simple things, like taking a friend that lives just a few miles away, to the gun range??

Most gun laws, are clearly not about purchasing.... If you learn about them, the seem to be wrote in away, to trip up, honest citizens.

[oneshooter]

5. Virginia Mountainman, The real

purpose of gun control isn't guns.





It's CONTROL.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[virginia mountainman]

6. Can't argue with that...NT

[bettyellen]

7. it's supposed to be a pity post, like it aint easy owing a gun, i know... that;s not what people

are concerned about. they are concerned about how easy it is to get a gun. it's too damned easy.
and yeah, to your shooter friend, DOH. it;s about control of dangerous things. somehting the govt does for the good of all it's citizens.

[virginia mountainman]

8. Like the Patriot Act?? Or Gitmo???

How about Bushco's torture?

Remember, it is for the public good....

What a vile Rethug talking point...

[bettyellen]

20. is every single law on the books bad then? for fucks sake, get real and stop spewing the NRA idiocy

[virginia mountainman]

33. I never said all laws are bad...

I am not spewing any NRA talking point...

I am ONLY pointing out a few FACTS, about the law..

[oneshooter]

10. It is not about the control of guns

"somehting the govt does for the good of all it's citizens."

It is about the control of people. All gun control laws are based on the idea that the goverment is able to control the citizens. They are able to remove the ability of the people to protect themselves, forcing them to rely on the govermet to defend them. And when they fail to, they then say that they, the goverment, is only responsable for the protection of "society as a whole" not the indevidual citizen.
That is "control".

"it;s about control of dangerous things"

Then they should worry about control of automobiles, swimmimg pools, 5 gallon buckets, knives, ect. as they do more harm to people than firearms.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[bettyellen]

22. sovereign movement much?

wtf are you doing here, phonies the lot of you.

[pipoman]

24. Oh, I think I get it...

To be a good Democrat one must interpret all civil rights in the most liberal sense except that right of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment must at least be interpreted in the most conservative fashion if not simply abolished or you are a fucking freeper...it is written in the book, therefore it is so..

Proselytize much?

[virginia mountainman]

31. Lots of Hypocrites around here, Pipoman..

It still staggers the mind, how many wish to define the vast majority of the Bill of Rights, as broadly as possible, except for ONE portion of it, and that portion, should be defined as NARROWLY as possible..

The dumb asses don't even began to understand the graveness of allowing a precedent to be set for RESTRICTIONS on the Bill of Rights...

[Euromutt]

29. Eliciting pity is not the point of the post

The point is that an awful lot of people who tell pollsters that they're in favor of tighter gun control laws are blissfully unaware of what the laws are that are already in place.

Moreover, there are instances where people have been unpleasantly surprised that the laws were not only tighter than they thought, but were outraged to realize those laws applied to them. During the LA riots of 1992, for example, a lot of Angelenos who had until then been gun control advocates suddenly wanted firearms for self-protection, since the cops freely admitted they were horribly over-extended. Then said would-be gun owners got honked off when they discovered that there was a 15-day waiting period on gun sales, even though they'd voted for the state legislators who had passed that measure.

[virginia mountainman]

4. Example 6...

Your driving along a rural road, in Virginia, you, have a Concealed Weapon permit, you are armed... You are completely legal as you ride down the road.

You come to this intersection...

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=36.65458,-80.496998&spn=0,359.958973&z=15&layer=c&cbll=36.654419,-80.497084&panoid=UC9YNW9RXMhLlnSSXbSAPw&cbp=12,18.09,,0,6.69

You driving to a house, across the Blue Ridge Parkway, you are on a county road, you stop, look right up the BRP and left down the BRP, and continue on across the Blue Ridge Parkway, and go on your way..

CONGRATULATIONS!!! YOU JUST COMMITTED A FEDERAL CRIME!!!! It is illegal to bring a gun into a national park, and you just drove across one....

Here is another such intersection, with the BRP, and a State road, the google street view car, is ON the parkway, and has the right of way, the state road on the right, crosses the parkway, it has the stop signs...

You can pan the pic, and see that all the road does, is cross the BRP....A gun in a car, here, where it would be completely legal, on the road with the stop signs, becomes a major Fedral Case, in that30 or so feet that crosses the BRP to the other side..

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll=36.656083,-80.503307&panoid=1RAeTXfQv6nBnd_cj6HKzA&cbp=12,141.75,,0,16.46&ll=36.654442,-80.49644&spn=0,359.975281&z=15

Thank goodness, Barack Obama, corrected this problem...

[Euromutt]

28. Slight correction

It is currently still illegal to bring a loaded and operable firearm into a National Park. The weapon has be unloaded and placed in an inaccessible location in the vehicle. So you're fine if you pull over, clear your carry gun and stick it in your trunk or under a stack of luggage, cross the Parkway, and then retrieve the weapon, load it and stick it back in your holster, you're fine.

[rrneck]

9. Screwy glitches

in legal jurisdictions come in pretty handy for opressive governments. They love to catch you breaking laws without knowing it.

Those examples serve to point out how difficult it is to regulate what someone may do with any technology. Especially technology that is as common and easily produced and transported as a firearm.

Firearms are easy to get illegaly. Getting a firearm and keeping it requires a fair bit of effort and personal restraint and responsibility.

[iverglas]

11. gotta love that example 5

I see some collective memory is needed here.

Example 5:

You are a vet, with a spotlessly clean record,

You loan a semi-automatic rifle to a friend, and during a recent trip to the range, with the rifle, it malfunctions, and fires a few shots automatic, the friend, immediately puts the rifle up, but someone at the range hears it, and reports “Machine gun fire” the ATF gets involved, you suddenly find yourself, in trouble, because YOU PROVIDED the rifle, to your friend.. IT does not matter that the “event” cannot be repeated by the ATF, with the rifle, and that the manufacture, admits, that that modal can malfunction in that way if not properly maintained, and even goes to court for you...

You can be convicted of several federal firearms violations, and find yourself doing hard time, This is happening to one man right now, he is in prison.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=162619&mesg_id=162619

Poor, poor Mr. Olofson.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29561634.html

A right-wing loon trafficking in automatic weapons; such a shame he got caught.


:hi:

[virginia mountainman]

12. WOW, that is the first time I heard of THAT...

I had heard about it, pretty much like I posted it. But you must admit, it is insanely easy, to break these laws.

Thanks for the hat tip, BTW, where have you been??

[oneshooter]

13. Never heard of an Oly with a 3 position safety.

"According to court records, Kiernicki turned the rifle's firing selector to the third position" That says full auto and /or 3 shot burst. A defiant no no. The guy who borrowed the rifle said that he was told that it was a full auto, but that it Jammed. Sounds like a full make over, wonder how old the lower was?
Good to hear from you Iverglas, was starting to wonder if you were ok.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[virginia mountainman]

14. They are, some very early Colt AR15 lowers...(1960s)

That are easily converted to full auto.. So easy, in fact that they, are Semi Auto's BUT that must be registered as Machine guns..

[oneshooter]

16. That is true.

However, according to the article it was an Olympic Arms lower.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Euromutt]

27. Even OlyArms' law enforcement-only models aren't selective fire

Check it out: http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=11&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37
Every one a Class III SBR, not a "machine gun" among them. Maybe OlyArms makes some auto-capable models, but if so, they're purely for export to foreign governments. That, at least, is what I recall being told by an acquaintance who maintained their computer system, but I've been out of touch with him for a while, so I can't verify that.

[iverglas]

15. hello all

I know, I've been sorely missed.

The mum has completed chemo and is about to start radiation (early lymphoma, an actual cure on the horizon), the sis has completed chemo, radiation and surgery, and is about to finish the final chemo (stage 3 colorectal cancer, looking good). I see a retinal surgeon on Tuesday (any delay in this is entirely my own fault) for the globs in my eye following that cataract surgery (for which I was far too young, let us not forget). But good old No.1 decided in late May to have a simple case of Man Flu turn into diabetic ketoacidosis, a possibility we'd managed never to hear about since he was diagnosed with type I three years ago, and come within minutes of dying by the time we went to the ER (where they did virtually immediately hook him up to all the tubes and monitors called for). And then to try it again three days later (that I do blame the medicos for, for discharging him when he still had flu, fine as he might have seemed). Then ... his obnoxious sister-in-law, who had insinuated he wasn't really in hospital, he was just trying to get out of travelling to help move shit out of his old mum's condo, had a heart attack last weekend, at 45.

I am a black cat. Do not cross my path.

I'm angling for an airsoft for my birthday later this year. That will probably get me as far as angling for tickets to see Country Joe MacDonald and Odetta last year did. Then Odetta died. Without even crossing my path ...

[oneshooter]

17. I too am a Diabetic, Type 2

Nothing to forget about or fool around with. Make sure he watches his carb intake, exersises, and takes his meds. and keeps track of his blood sugar. The rest should be easy!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[TPaine7]

18. I'm glad things are somewhat better. Best wishes for your personal life. N/T

[X_Digger]

25. Welcome back, and hope things turn out well! n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

30. I am glad to see you back. Sounds like you've a lot on your plate lately.

I lost a good friend to diabetic ketoacidosis back in 1998. As you've seen, not to be trifled with.

May I make a musical suggestion? Download Willie Dixon singing "I Ain't Superstitious" from his album
"I Am The Blues". A great album, and FYI: Willie also had Type 1 diabetes.

"I ain't superstitious, but a black cat crossed my trail..."

Good to have the original iverglas back. We've had a couple of wannabees here in the Gungeon,
but they lack, shall we say, a certain je ne sans quoi.

[virginia mountainman]

32. I sincerely hope your luck turns around..

I had a rash of bad luck like that back around thanksgiving.. One day, perfectly healthy, the next day, in the hospital near death, with a blood infection... And that was just the begining...

I hope you and yours recover soon.

[gorfle]

34. Man, that sucks.

Sorry to hear about your family. Looks like everyone is getting it at the same time. Good thing you guys have good health care to fall back on. When that sort of thing happens to someone here in the States it can wipe out generations of family wealth.

[TPaine7]

19. You do have to be very careful when the right wing is defending

civil rights.

Often it means that the person exercising those rights is personally despicable, and thus deemed worth of right wing sympathy.

In other cases, like this one apparently, they are defending an intentional lawbreaker.

[bettyellen]

21. gosh - part of the RW sovereign movement caught being v careless with guns... COOL!!!

[Taitertots]

23. I already have to ask permission from the FBI to buy a gun

When I bought my pistol I had to take it into the police department and show them it for a safety inspection. Funny thing is that the inspection card says specifically that it is no safety inspection has been performed.

[Euromutt]

26. You must be from Michigan

They finally canned those stupid "safety inspections" last January, didn't they?
I've been told the purpose of those was primarily to see whether the gun owner rather than the gun could stand up to scrutiny. Read: make sure the owner isn't black, Asian or Hispanic.

[Taitertots]

35. I heard something about that

I didn't want to toss my "safety inspection" card until I got the definitive word on the subject.


The real reason was to set up a de facto registration.