This is a question for the gun owners or pro-RKBA types...

[BigBluenoser]

This may not be a question you want to answer but it is one I am curious about...

How many of you identify strongly with the label "Progressive"?

It is not a label I feel comfortable with, the only folks I really have much to do with who identify themselves as such are here on DU other sites on the www. Never heard anyone claim that title in the real world. I find many of the folks who do self-identify as such seem a tad absolutist and authoritarian. While I am supportive of most of the goals of the movement (as I understand it) I don't know that if I like all the methods. Of course, this could be the result of the medium and not the message (blogs, msg boards etc. bring out the extremes in people)

I'm a red-neck, gun totin, chain smokin, summnabich who wants people to be treated well, be happy, have equality (shout out to my GLBT brothers and sisters who need all the shout outs they can get these days), access to health care & healthy work/living places, fair wages, personal privacy, freedom of (and from) religion, and a whole heapin truck load of personal liberty.

My gun stance puts me in the "Blue Dog" camp I guess for lack of a better place to fit.

There, I'm out.

I

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. I'm very much pro-RKBA and I consider myself a progressive

I'm uber lefty on everything but that and the DP.

[NightWatcher]

2. I'm a radical progressive (I barely fit in the Dem party) and I use guns

broad brushes and labels rarely do justice to that which they attempt to pigeon hole

[BigBluenoser]

8. Honestly, I'd expect the self-labeled "radical" set

to be rabidly pro-gun ownership (at least for now). And your right about labels, but they also are powerful elements of identity edit: and a basis for collective action.

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. just out of curiosity, since you mention chain smoking. Do you smoke around non smokers?

If you do, then you are not treating them well, or making them happy. Just mentioning to say how difficult it is for each of us to not have an impact on others and vice versa.

I also think that there are some topics - abortion, guns, smoking - that cut across politics, party and labels. And that is what makes them powder kegs for discussions!

[BigBluenoser]

7. I'd butt out if someone asks me to...

And your right, the old "your liberty ends when your fist hits my nose" does seem a bit antiquated these days, likely due to population density. But I think we should err towards freedom rather than preventing offence. Pretty easy for an adult to avoid health risks from second hand smoke (not so for kids admittedly) but not the odor. But then again, the odor ain't particularly harmful, you may just not like it.

[pipoman]

18. Not to derail

just to say as a smoker, smoking inside public places is a no-no and I agree. Outdoor smoking bans in non congested places? Give me a break...such extreme nonsense..

[X_Digger]

4. I don't do labels..

I forget where I was on the political compass test exactly (left of center, more toward the libertarian rather than authoritarian).

[TheWraith]

5. Personally, I prefer the old fashioned "liberal."

I never liked the idea of running away from it, or conceeding the language war to the right.

I hear what you're saying about people being absolutist, but I think that's more the magnifying glass effect of the internet. It allows the loudest, most obsessed voices the biggest share of the electrons.

I suppose that you could call me a left-leaning libertarian over the guns thing, but the way I see it I'm a classic liberal, strongly backing all the protections and rights that people are due. I believe in a country where you can be yourself, live the way you want, read what you choose, speak your mind, own a gun, marry a woman, marry a man, marry both, do anything that's not bothering or hurting somebody else.

[NewMoonTherian]

9. This is where I am.

Though I part with most liberals and progressives in that I believe in economic freedom(the chance to succeed obscenely, and the risk to fail catastrophically) as well as social liberty. That's why I don't stray far from the gungeon.

EDIT: "This is where I am" referring to your mention of libertarian.

[billyoc]

6. Pwogwessive?!

Where's my gun! :evilgrin:

[safeinOhio]

10. I also like basketball

my sports interest do not define my politics.

[Xela]

11. Armed liberal pacifist...

...And I don't have a problem to be considered a progressive.

And it's nice to know I'm not alone:
http://progunprogressive.com/


Xela

[dmallind]

12. In some ways yes and some no

Anybody - and I mean anybody - who always agrees with one political bloc is a moron who cannot think for themselves. No damn difference if that's progressive or neocon.

My opinions on various issues range from those seen as extreme left/progressive (things like gay rights, universal single payer health care, choice) through center left (progressive taxation, environmental regulation, religion) and centrist/moderate (balanced budgets, immigration reform) to center right (gun control, free trade) and even in some rare cases hard right (death penalty, school discipline).

[Artie Bucco]

13. Liberal indeed...

I am pro-choice, pro-labor, pro-national health care liberal on all points; I like others don't consider gun ownership as a conservative or liberal issue. I honestly consider myself a bit of a Euro-socialist. However, I am not a fan on who intrusive many of the European countries are in peoples' lives.

On to me I am a college student (UTA) working a unionized warehousing job (UPS). I am majoring in History and Spanish with plans to go into teaching. I am a Mexican immigrant, I like Latin Ska and Indie music and I dress like a hipster. I collect vinyls though my collection is rather meager. I play soccer; it's a shame since it's been a few weeks but I am staying fit by keeping up my jump rope, push ups and heavy bag routine.

Heel you will find stuff like this in my room.



There is also a poster of the Haymarket Eight in my room which I got from this fine website http://www.northlandposter.com/; pardon the shameless plug.


Yeah, I like my history :). My favorite areas being Latin American, WWII and American Labor History.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. Fortunately for you this is Democratic Underground, not Progressive or Liberal Underground.

[BigBluenoser]

23. Until the election...

I'm not sure I would have agreed with that. But things have definitely hopped towards center in the last 18 months or so (I've been reading this place daily since 2004).

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. I was only referring to the title not the content.

[thread-bear]

15. labels

I think labels are a product of propaganda. I believe mostly what I've always believed. I've seen labels such as conservative and liberal change so much over the years that it's hard to recognize what they are anymore. Growing up,the Democratic party was mostly in power,so they got most of the blame for any bad laws. I voted independent my first vote,I didn't like Ford and didn't trust Carter. Over the years I have come to consider Carter the most trustworthy president in my lifetime. I voted for Kerry for three reasons,1:what George Bush did to our freedoms was so destructive,2:The Iraq war and mid-east policies,3:I owed John Kerry for helping stop the Vietnam war before I had to go. Honestly,I thought they both were idiots. What is so wrong with standing up for{all}the constitution that has protected us for centuries? What is so wrong about saying{Christian or not}love thy neighbor as thyself? In my opinion,a system that uses capitalism as an engine,with socialism as a brake,works best. Pure capitalism has evil results,as does pure socialism. If you disagree,don't argue with me,argue with history. I am sickened by my country that has turned it's back on the freedoms that transformed this nation. I am sickened by the zombie Christianity that has perverted Christ's teachings this century.

[raimius]

16. Nope,

I would label myself closer to "classic liberal," "libertarian," or "socially liberal and economically conservative."
Then again, labels usually only identify people VERY poorly, since they don't allow specifics or why people have such views. (For example, I don't suppor the death penalty--not because I disagree with it, but because the process winds up being more expensive than a life sentence! It's a waste of taxpayer money.)

[old mark]

17. I am an old progressive from the '60's when WE were the ones with

bombs (and lots of FBI). I learned to shoot in the Cub Scouts at age 10 and I have been a gun owner almost as long as I have been a legal voter.

I fear that some of those on the "extreme" left fit that authoritarian mode several posters mentioned, and I dislike that as much as i dislike the right wing - for a great example of the ultimate left wing authoritarianism, see North Korea. They have serious gun control.

I enjoy collecting ans shooting my guns, and I enjoy the freedom to protect myself and my home and I find NOTHING contradictory about being a progressive and doing all of that.

mark

[pipoman]

19. I don't try to label myself

I feel that I know how I stand and don't need a label to define myself. That said, I am quite liberal (small 'l') on many, many issues including gun rights. I really don't know how someone who considers themselves liberal to be conservative on the interpretation of this right.

[Tim01]

20. How about a definition of the label progressive?

That would help.

[BigBluenoser]

22. I've looked... It seems to be an identifying label more than anything

based on a collection of organizations & informal talking heads/analysts.

Adding to the confusion is that "Progressive" is a recycled term from an earlier era. Until the election of Barack Obama the number one signifier seemed to be the avid stance on the Iraq War and prosecution of Bush 43. Things seem to be getting fuzzier (or sharper, not sure) as things are spreading apart in terms of details in implementation of the "progressive agenda".

I could throw a couple issues up, but I don't want to misrepresent and I'm not sure those who identify as such could give us all a mutually agreeable definition.

[Tim01]

24. It's kind of hard for me to say.

It seems like conservative republicans and liberal democrats both call me a libertarian and both seem to mean it as an insult.

[BigBluenoser]

26. That's because you're a godless immoral freak or a selfish asshole...

take your pick!

:p

[Tim01]

28. Well, if the label fits........

[gorfle]

21. I label myself as "ex-Republican"

I'm against the war in Iraq/Afghanistan. I'm pro-firearm. I'm against corporate welfare. I'm pro-environment. I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay marriage. I'm against pervasive domestic surveillance and the suspension of habeus corpus. I'm against torture. I'm against indefinite detention of anyone without the due process of law. I'm pro-single-payer health care. I'm pro-Social Security. I'm skeptical of the usefulness of Unions, but concede there may be a class of workers that can't make it any other way. I tend to be anti-welfare but figure if we are spending many trillions of dollars on wars and corporate bailouts we should be able to afford services for Americans. I'm anti-death penalty.

What label fits?

[Tim01]

25. AH! What ever label you get, I get the exact same thing.

This should clear things up.

[slackmaster]

27. I think freedom of choice is a core "progressive" ideal

I don't identify much with authoritarianism or socialism.

I'm a red-neck, gun totin, chain smokin, summnabich

I'm a pony tailed, goateed fan of good food and beverages. And sex. I like sex. A lot.

[Hangingon]

29. I am a free man, an American and a Democrat. In that order.

[virginia mountainman]

30. I consider myself a classical Democrat..

An old saying I like to repeat is:

It does not matter if the boot on your neck, is a on the "Right" foot, or the "left" foot,...It is still a boot, on your throat..

[michreject]

31. Old style, Southern, Blue Dog,

Appalachian-American.

[virginia mountainman]

36. Howdy over thar friend!

I hail from Southwest Virginia, I literally live in the shadow, of the mighty Blue Ridge, it offers food, and protection, it is mine, and my families home.

[michreject]

37. Northeastern Tennessee

Jonesborough. 1st Capitol of Tennessee.

[Endangered Specie]

33. I don't even like the term progressive..

because its an admission that the right wing nuts have managed to taint the original words: "liberal, social democrat" etc...

I consider myself to be a moderate to slightly left leaning, depends on who you ask. But I would prefer to vote for a yellow dog than a Republican any day of the year... no matter what the social issues are, and where I stand on them, you have to remember, fundamentally which party is for the people, unions, healthcare, and the poor (us) and which is for big business, tax cuts for the rich, and extreme corporatism (them).

If you ask me, its best to leave most social issues alone, the Republicans have gotten pretty good at using them to convinve people to vote against their own economic interests

[proteus_lives]

34. Meh, labels.

I'm a gun owner and avid defender of 2nd amendment rights but I won't put any political labels on myself beyond Democrat. I hate how people expect you to agree with them on all issues if you agree with them on one.

[The Green Manalishi]

35. Gun rights *ARE* progressive.

I strongly believe in supporting labor unions, marriage equality (and ALL other forms of equality) for GLBT people, doing whatever is necessary to care for the environment, ensuring economic fairness, Choice and providing healthcare for all. Mom was a Wobbly, I'm a second generation San Franciscan.

I consider myself both a first and second amendment near absolutist. IMO, prior restraint is wrong. Always. Yes, the wrong people can get ahold of guns and use them for bad purposes, often tragically. This is not, and can never be, sufficent reason to restrain the rights of law abiding citizens to own, practice with and use firearms for self defense and hunting. No more than the fact that someone *might* create child porn, disclose state secrets, incite others to murder, rape or riot, or even piss off somebody's "God" can ever be an excuse for restraining the speech of a citizen. Misuse should be punished; indeed I think most of us who like firearms are as, if not more, strident in our opinion of what the punishment for crimes involving a firearm should be than average.

I honestly understand why someone who lives in San Francisco or New York is really skeptical about, if not hostile to, my desire to own high power semi automatic firearms. Someone in Manhattan, or the Tenderloin is justified in thinking that there is no urgent need for someone to have a weapon that looks like something a soldier would carry and my desire to own not only the weapon but multiple magazines holding 30 rounds each. And a lot of gun enthusiasts are pretty damn insensitive; I had a neighbor once who told me, through a drunken haze, how he kept a .30-06 rifle with which he would shoot any burglar breaking in. While I have no problem with thieves, along with carjackers and rapists) expiring painfully from gaping exit wounds, any firearms enthusiast on this, or any other board, would agree that my neighbor was an idiot ( a round from such a rifle is great for killing something at 100 or 200 yards, but will easily go through walls- many of them). Of course some redneck in the deep backwoods might well not understand why I, or many others, insist on the right to view blasphemous and obscene art, such as Mapplethorpe, or say treasonous things such as encouraging the terrorists or demoralizing the troops by speaking out against our involvement in Iraq, or bring End Times Judgement upon America by supporting abortion. Tough for the redneck, tough for the misguided if sincere soul who would prevent a law abiding citizen from owning, practicing and utilizing a firearm.

But the above doesn't change the fact that prior restraint does not, and should not apply to rights. Penalties for misuse, hell yes, but no one should be able to take away a right just because it might be misused; those who would are not progressives.

[cslinger59]

38. I probably don't identify with strongly progressive

I have voted Republican, Democrat and Independent. Sometimes during a single election run. I tend to vote for specific issues/voting history then I do based on a letter after a name.

I am pro gun.
I am pro choice (yet pro life for myself if that makes sense)
I am pro rights (Black, White, Gay, Straight, Christian, Muslim etc. etc. etc.)
I am anti illegal immigration (but believe in work visa's etc.)
I am pro education
I am for finding ways to eliminate poverty through education, economy diversification etc.)
I am generally against the drug war
I am am pro death penalty when there is 100% positive evidence of a heinous crime (Video, lots of witnesses etc.)
I am in favor of harsh prison sentences for anybody who commits violent crimes. Any non violent or victimless crimes should be dealt with civilly, through fines or through community service/home lockup etc. Keep prison for hard corp threats to society not for somebody who was caught growing a few plants.

So what does that make me? At the end of the day I am really probably more libertarian with slight right leanings.

[votingupstart]

39. don't worry there are a lot of us who haven't found a best fitting left label yet nt

[patriotvoice]

40. "be treated well, be happy, have equality..." pretty much describes my idea of "progressive"

And that describes me. I would only add to your list, to describe me, the expectation that people to "be personally responsible for their own, and Humanity's, well being."