Bill SB 843 Gun control bill

[Tim01]

I'm researching it now. It looks to have a part that is essentially gun registration. I'm just looking into it now. I wanted to give everybody a heads up.

[krispos42]

1. US Senate? n/t

[Howzit]

2. To stop private sales of guns (Gun Show Loophole)

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:s843is.txt.pdf

[S_B_Jackson]

3. Here's the Brady Campaign's take on it....

http://cablog.bradycampaign.org/

I'm puzzled at their take on the ruling in Nordyke....the only reason that the 3-judge panel upheld Alameda County's refusal was that the Nordyke's failed to file a safety plan with their permit application. That said, the ruling undercut every legal underpinning of Alameda Co.'s arguments, AND then proceeded to Incorporate the 2nd Amendment against the state of California and all of it's political sub-entities (all other states in the 9th Circuit's jurisdiction already had clear statements of the individual nature of their citizens rights to firearms).

[Caliman73]

4. classic case of rose colored glasses

I agree that Nordyke was a substantial ruling for the individual rights of gun owners regardless of the technical decision regarding the gun show. Brady wants to see it as a fundamental victory for bans. Let them, they will see how much of a "fundamental win" Nordyke was for them.

[virginia mountainman]

6. LOL... Brady also saw

Heller, as a fundamental victory for bans.

[Caliman73]

7. That's funny...

I guess they follow the typical Republican delusional thinking patterns. Too bad many of us Democrats tend to follow along and support their ideas.

[aikoaiko]

5. I wouldn't consider supporting this unless there was an amendment to permanently ban Fed. gun bans

...including the Hughes amendment and import bans be decree of non-sporting uses.

[pipoman]

8. The basis of the bill

is an attempt to regulate intrastate commerce by proclaiming gun shows promote interstate commerce. It's been tried and failed in judiciary before. There are already laws which disallow nonresidents of the state where the gun show is held from buying firearms either from private sellers or from licensed FFLs without shipping the gun to an FFL in their state for transfer. Is it enforced? No of coarse not, nor would this law be enforced.

[one-eyed fat man]

9. What do you mean not enforced?

How can the FFL sell to non-residents? One of the things you must show is an ID. Typically a driver's license as that lists a residency. Even a military ID card will not suffice for the identification requirement since it doesn't show residency. See the link, go to page 179 and read about 4473's

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/index.htm

(D4) Who signs ATF Form 4473 for the seller?

ATF Form 4473 must be signed by the person who verified the identity of the buyer.

(D5) Is a Social Security card a proper means of identification for purchasing a firearm from an FFL?

No. A Social Security card, alien registration card, or military identification alone does not contain sufficient information to identify a firearms purchaser. However, a purchaser may be identified by any combination of government-issued documents which together establish all of the required information: Name, residence address, date of birth, and photograph of the holder.

The only way to transfer to a non-resident is to transfer to a licensee in the state where the buyer is a resident. In a city like Cincinnati, for example, a gun show might bring FFL's from Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana as well as potential customers. It is possible and legal for an Ohio resident to buy a gun from a Kentucky dealer by having the Kentucky FFL transfer the gun to an Ohio FFL to deliver to the Ohio resident. All the paperwork, bound-book entries, NICs checks, etc exactly the same as if the gun were purchased and shipped across country.

Given the scrutiny a bound book gets, who would be dumb enough to sell off the book and risk their livelihood and a free 10 year stay at Club Fed for a piddly few bucks?

[X_Digger]

10. I think he means private sellers..

.. in states that prohibit private sales sans NICS check, there's a compliance issue. Folks still sell firearms to friends and family without going through NICS.

[pipoman]

11. Yea, my post wasn't real clear that way...

I did mean private sellers not FFLs. I have never met an FFL willing to sell to a nonresident.

[pipoman]

12. I am now looking into my crystal ball....

this bill will fail in judiciary because the commerce clause will be too blurry even for them, as previous bills have failed...then the sponsors will have a press conference and proclaim the NRA has once again defeated our bill...they simply don't want this horrible gun show loophole fixed.