Intruder shot to death during attack in home

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

A man armed with a box cutter pushed his way into an Aurora home early Friday morning and attacked a male guest who was sleeping on the couch before the intruder was shot to death by the man who lived there, police said.

The alleged attacker, who has not been identified, knocked on the back door of a single-family house at 1672 Jamaica St. around 3 a.m. The man who lived in the house went to the door but was pushed aside by the intruder, police said.

After a brief scuffle, the intruder went into the living room where Frank J. Sanchez, 18, was sleeping. The intruder began attacking Sanchez, who woke up and started fighting back, Detective Shannon Lucy said.

Meanwhile, the resident went into his bedroom, pulled out a pistol and shot the intruder dead, according to police.


http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12120100

[geckosfeet]

1. You just eat this shit up don't you fire man?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

3. Just doing my part to keep people informed.

I also find it quite humorous how worked up people like yourself seem to get. That's just a fringe benefit I guess.

David

[gizmo1979]

5. There was the story

about the police officer shot in Milwaukee.Murder suicide in MI.Need I go on.We get your point,but one good ending doesn't make the 100 bad ones any better.Just be happy you've got all the rights you need and leave it at that.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

6. Yes there were those.

There were also the 80 or so defensive shootings that have been in the media so far this year.

David

[gizmo1979]

9. I'm talking everyday.nt

[Hoopla Phil]

11. Source? Link? Or just because you say so?

[gizmo1979]

13. Guns are in the news everyday

in every major media market.someone is killed or maimed.Look I could careless if you have guns.all my friends have guns,just some common sense would be nice.Do you really need assault rifles?Or cop killer bullets?Guns are fine an armed fortress is not.

[Hoopla Phil]

14. Guss I'll have to quote you. You state as a fact:

"one good ending doesn't make the 100 bad ones any better"

So please source that statistic. I can just as easily say that guns are used legally for self defense every day just look at the newspapers. But I will not give a statistic such as 100 to 1 good uses over bad uses because I cannot back that up. So please site your source for the 1 to 100 that you state as fact.

[Hoopla Phil]

43. Still waiting on that source for the claim of 1 to 100.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoopla Phil]

82. LOL, Still cannot source that false stat of 1 to 100 I see. Now resort to insults. LOL

[Hoopla Phil]

83. Guess that means the 1 to 100 stat was pulled completely out of you butt. LOL

[yay]

98. What do you expect? honestly... NT

[umccoyw]

16. assault rifles??

a real assault rifle has burst or is fully automatic, "assault rifles" you buy as a civilian look like the military ones but are only semiautomatic. Do people really need a IPhone no they dont but they like it and think its cool. just like people who buy "assault rifles"

[gizmo1979]

18. How did the guy in Pitt

have a fully automatic weapon?Or is it an easy fix to make them fully auto,like a friend of mine in the Army used to say?

[umccoyw]

20. he got a automatic firearm illegally

for a AR-15 style weapon i beleive you need different seres (i think thats how you spell it) which are pieces in the trigger group and you need a different bolt carrier group as well. Your friend in the Army that said it was easy may have been refering to the fact that an armorer (someone who fixes the firearms) could potentially take those parts and give or sell them to people so they can turn their firearms automatic. But it is illegal to buy those pieces. so again the only people those laws stop are the criminals who wont follow any law enacted thus in effect providing no real safety to the public just the illusion of safety.

[X_Digger]

23. To even use a DIAS (drop in auto sear)..

requires a machine shop to mill out the receiver (post '86 modifications keep a DIAS from being able to be used).

[X_Digger]

22. The pgh shooter did not have a fully automatic weapon

Nor are they easy to convert. Since 1986, any gun considered 'easily convertible' is treated as though it ALREADY HAD BEEN converted (ie, can't be sold without Title II / class III paperwork, and the registry is closed to new ones.)

[gizmo1979]

25. You can buy the parts to do

it online to just drop in.I'm a machinist I could do it in less than a day.

[umccoyw]

27. pretty sure you also need a new bolt carrier group

the bolt carrier is different in a fully automatic M-16. Also think about this if it were that easy to buy a drop in part and install it to make it an automatic weapon do you really think it would be legal to purchase? It wouldnt. if you go online and look for legitiment parts for full auto weapons it will tell you that they only sell to law enforcement agencies. Now the Drop in sere probably does not even work on newer rifles and they sell them to rip people off. its not like you can to to police or better business bureau and say you bought a part to make your firearm full auto and it doesnt work

[X_Digger]

29. scam or BATFE sting

The BATFE was responsible for some of the ads in mags like shotgun news for 'conversion kits' in the late 80's, early 90's.

[gizmo1979]

30. look it up.

[X_Digger]

28. If you're a machinist, then you could build it from scratch!

Heck, there are CNC plans for a heck of a lot simpler open bolt zip guns online.

We need tight regulation on end mills!

[gizmo1979]

31. So you're saying it's easy

right?The argument you make against end mills is about what I expected from you.Send me the plans I'm out of work I'll make as many as you want.I'm just explaining that all your arguments for needing every gun known to man is as out there as the anti abortion crowds arguments.You are the fringe,you are a 10 percenter.You are the far right on the issue and the far left is no guns.I don't care which way you go but don't insult my intelligence about it.

[X_Digger]

34. You underestimate your skill as a machinist..

That comment was with tongue firmly planted in cheek, forgot to leave off the sarcasm tag.

I've never claimed to want 'every gun known to man'.

If the 'fringe' owns the most popular centerfire rifles sold in the US, then it really isn't the fringe anymore, is it?

[gizmo1979]

35. Not owning them fool.

The rambling on and on and on.Crying for your second amendment rights when I saw the same bumper stickers on cars in 1968 that I see today.And fancy that,you still have your guns.I hate whiners and you guys are the biggest bunch of cry babies I have ever seen.
Note As far as I can tell from the picture all you need is a mill and a drill press to make your gadget.You've never seen me machine anything,but if you want to compare skills I'm glad to have that conversation.

[X_Digger]

39. Project much? n/t

[DrCory]

78. Hopefully...

Your machining skills are more advanced than your vocabulary, punctuation, and syntax!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

85. You are right you aren't that good a machinist.

[paulsby]

53. i've never seen one

in 20 yrs of law enforcement, i have NEVER seen a converted semi to full auto gun.

ever.

so, all these hypotheticals aside, they are simply exceedingly rare, if they exist at all.

or at least rare when it comes to crimes.

not only have i never seen/seized one, but i've never even heard of an incident where one was used.

they are the snuffalufagus of guns.

often talked about, but never seen (by some)

[jeepnstein]

33. Go ahead and try it.

Get back with us on your results if they let you have web access from prison. What you are proposing is quite illegal.

[gizmo1979]

37. I would imagine the making of the device isn't illegal

It's the sale and implementation that is such.I used it as an example that it would be easy to do.Example get it?Maybe if I draw a picture for you.

[jeepnstein]

40. Oh, I get it alright.

You are spouting off about how easy it is to make a full-auto. Your saying it is easy is supposed to somehow make it a "problem" that we must address with more laws? It's already quite illegal to do what you propose. Have you ever heard of the term "constructive intent" in the context of a firearm related crime? Do you propose they pass a law against breaking the law?

The NFA does a good job of keeping full-auto in the hands of lawful citizens. I don't agree with the 1986 ban on new production but the NFA is not the kind of law you'll see challenged any time soon.

[gizmo1979]

44. Blah.

[Hoopla Phil]

72. I guess that's called a concession. LOL. Cannot refute so say "Blah". HaHaHa

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoopla Phil]

79. And now personal insults. What a master debater you are. LOL

[Hoopla Phil]

80. So, did you ever find ANY proof on that 1 100 stat you kept insisting was real? LOL

[Statistical]

49. Wrong.

Making or even possession of a Class III firearm w/o Class III license is a felony. Period.

Even simply having all necessary parts to make one is a felony.

so for a second lets look at yuur example that you can drop in an auto sear and turn a semi-auto into a full auto.

One it is completely wrong. No semi-auto made in last 20+ years is "drop in capable".

But lets pretend for a second it is.

Owning a semi-auto that CAN be modified to a full auto + parts necessary (even if parts are NOT installeD) is a Class III weapon according to BATFE. Penalty is 5-15 years in prison per offense.

Selling a semi-auto that can be easily converted (even without the necessary parts) is a Class III item according to BATFE and penalties are even more severe.

[yay]

51. You imagined wrong

Let me spell it out for you. Making a DIAS is illegal, making or modifying a receiver is a grey area, doing anything that might point to you making an unregistered title I/II item without the proper FFL is a one way all expenses paid ticket to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

You can make all the semi-auto/bolt/lever/ect. firearms you want I believe as long as you don't sell them(selling or giving them away requires an FFL). Making items that would fall under the NFA is 100% illegal without the right FFL weather you planed to sell them or not.

Is that clear? Manufacturing title I/II items or parts for them is ILLEGAL without the proper FFL. or do I need to paint YOU a picture?

Yes one could machine the parts required to turn a weapon into a automatic. But it requires the skill and equipment to do so privately, because I HIGHLY doubt any commercial machine shop would put themselves and their workers at risk. Banning a firearm based on the "ability" to machine the parts to turn it into a full auto would effectively ban all auto-loading rifles and pistols.

[yay]

52. Source?

DIAS's are regulated and they are illegal to transfer if they were made after a certain date(which slips my mind at the moment)

So source?

[rl6214]

54. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

[gizmo1979]

59. I saw the website

with my own eyes.Step by step instructions,with pictures.

[yay]

64. Yet you lack the ability to copy past

highlight the link press ctrl+C come to this page and press ctrl+V. Not that hard when you think about it.

[rl6214]

69. Link please

Come on, you say it's out there you have to put it out there.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

86. Link to it. Let's see it. As a matter of fact send it to the FBI they'll investigate.

[Hoopla Phil]

93. Still waiting on that source. . . . .

[Hoopla Phil]

38. You never did source claim of the 1 to 100 stat you gave as fact.

Please do so.

[gizmo1979]

41. It's in the FBI statistics

Just the deaths are over thirty thousand.So list how many people protected by their gun episodes there are.I don't hear about them everyday in the news.I know if there is one I hear about it because the gun nuts print it here in bold letters.

[Hoopla Phil]

46. Again there is no link? You say good uses of firearms to bad uses

are 1 to 100 but have yet to source it or link to it. Come on now, you know the rules. You made the claim so now you have to provide the proof.

[gizmo1979]

57. Do you need me to spell it?

FBI.

[yay]

58. hot links are your freind

you made the claim you provide the links... otherwise you're full of shit.

[gizmo1979]

60. It's the FBI website

how many websites are there for the FBI.

[Hoopla Phil]

66. LOL, still can't site your claim? LOL

[Hoopla Phil]

94. Care to share?

[Hoopla Phil]

48. What FBI statistics? Where and when did that come out. Come on now that's not

"sourcing" a claim. If I write that the "FBI says pigs can now fly" does that make it so? NO. Source that ridicules claim please.

[gizmo1979]

55. 2005 was the last

year I could find.

[yay]

56. yet still no link....

amazing.

[gizmo1979]

61. want a map

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/guncrime.htm

[yay]

65. Amazing

See you really can do it when you put your mind to it.

However it still doesn't back up your "100 to 1" claim.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoopla Phil]

84. Still no source on that 1 to 100 stat you gave? Ha Ha Ha. You funny.

[Hoopla Phil]

67. Cute graph but you still have not backed up your 1 to 100 claim. Please do so IF you can.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoopla Phil]

81. I didn't offer any stats. YOU did that. AND CANNOT SOURCE IT!! HA HA HA HA

And more personal insults. Wow! You are such a master debater LMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

88. That's the same DOJ that estimates 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.

[Hoopla Phil]

91. Point! I really don't think he'll EVER source that claim. He can't It doesn't exist.

[Hoopla Phil]

95. Cute graph but you still have not backed up your 1 to 100 claim. Please do so IF you can.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. You included suicides I see.

[TheWraith]

97. The Pittsburgh shooter did NOT have an automatic weapon.

And no, your friend from the Army is either repeating urban legends or pulling your chain. The amount of effort to convert a semi-auto to full auto would be roughly the same as it would take to build a new gun.

[X_Digger]

17. "cop killer bullets"?? "assasult rifles"??

Handgun and rifle (up to .308) ammunition classified as armor piercing have been illegal to sell to civilians since 1986 (amended in 1994).

There is a terminology mix-up (intentional on the proponents' part) between the technical term 'assault rifle' and the made up by legislators term 'assault weapon'. An 'Assault Rifle' is a select fire rifle (meaning that it can fire fully automatic or one round per trigger pull) that has been regulated heavily since 1934 and is not readily available to the public. 'Assault Weapon' refers to a semi-auto (not full) rifle with certain mostly cosmetic features- a combination of a certain number of these features classifies a rifle as an 'assault weapon'.

[gizmo1979]

19. Darwin huh?

[X_Digger]

24. ....? n/t

[gizmo1979]

26. That's what I'm sayin.

[umccoyw]

21. i have what you call a "assualt weapon"

its semiautomatic and complies with NYS law. tell me what you think about the law. The ONLY reason my rifle is LEGAL is becuase stamped into the lower reciever it says "colt M-4 Carbine". now if it was stamped with AR-15 instead it would be illegal. That just goes to show that they are banning guns based on looks and names of the guns themselves and not on the functionality

[gizmo1979]

36. Blah blah blah.

Another repuke in clowns clothing.

[X_Digger]

42. Oh, the poutrage! n/t

[gizmo1979]

45. You need a new icon.

Maybe a chimp.

[X_Digger]

47. You have an approriate one..

.. an ass.

[gizmo1979]

62. I've been told that

some.

[DrCory]

90. No True Democrat May Disagree With You? N/T

[NewMoonTherian]

15. All the rights we need?

Our friends in California, New York, D.C. and Chicago may take issue with that.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoopla Phil]

68. Point.

[logjon]

50. hr73

>about the police officer shot in Milwaukee.Murder suicide in MI.Need I go on.We get your point,but one good ending doesn't make the 100 bad ones any better.Just be happy you've got all the rights you need and leave it at that.


(2) Citizens frequently must use firearms to defend themselves, as evidenced by the following:

(A) Every year, more than 2,400,000 people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals--or more than 6,500 people a day. This means that, each year, firearms are used 60 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.

(B) Of the 2,400,000 self-defense cases, more than 192,000 are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.

(C) Of the 2,400,000 times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, 92 percent merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8 percent of the time, does a citizen kill or wound his or her attacker.

http://www.theorator.com/bills110/text/hr73.html

these number far exceeds the illicit uses/accidents

[gizmo1979]

63. That's precious.

Send me to a Far right wing website from a Democratic underground forum.Just precious.HAHAHA.

[Hoopla Phil]

71. Still cannot back up or correctly source that 1 to 100 claim I see. LOL

[Hoopla Phil]

92. Despite all your missing posts. . . I'm still waiting. . . . .

[MUAD_DIB]

7. Oh, behave...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

8. If people would just lighten up.

[Hoopla Phil]

10. Thanks Dave. I appreciate your efforts very much!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. You're welcome.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. Sounds like a good group -

the guy on the couch was arrested on an outstanding warrant after an intruder tried to kill him.

Lucky guy. Sort of.

Nice touch, publishing the house's address. I can't believe a newspaper would do that.

Box cutter, eh?

Amateur ...............

[sam sarrha]

4. sounds like a Love Triangle.. he knew who he was after, an people were sick of his shit.. bang bang

[yay]

70. Is this thread messed up for anyone else?

On the topic list it say's there's 78 relpy's, but I can only see 68...

[Hoopla Phil]

73. That has to do with deleted posts. When the mods see a rules violation

they remove the thread (sometimes the whole sub-thread). The topic list will count the deleted threads in the total but you will not see them as they are deleted.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

89. Someone has been behaving quite badly.

[Hoopla Phil]

96. I noticed that. Question: I'm still new here so maybe you can help.

How many deleted posts does it take to get "tombstoned"?

[yay]

99. No idea

But I wish it would happen.

But on the bright side, I think he could get a career writing articles for the Brady bunch