Eric Holder wants to ban this

[Renew Deal]

[Lucian]

1. So what's wrong with that?

[Renew Deal]

2. Everything

[derby378]

3. Where do you want me to start?

1. "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

2. If that isn't clear enough, read the Supreme Court's ruling on DC v. Heller.

3. Last time we tried this, Republicans took Congress and then the White House. How's that Bush economy treating you?

[elleng]

11. They REALLY LOOK LIKE a well-regulated militia!

.

[derby378]

13. You're part of the militia, too

This affects all of us. Even those of us who wouldn't be caught dead in a miniskirt. :hi:

[baldguy]

20. Those girls can regulate me anytime.

[TahitiNut]

14. They just need some drilling. (Hut! Two. Three. Four. Hut! Two. Three. Four.)

:hide:

[cliffordu]

15. Drill baby drill!!!

:rofl:

[derby378]

30. Aunt Sarah's not going to serve you any more moose chunks

:spray:

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Before or after they give me 20?

[Lucian]

33. ...

:eyes:

YAWN

[mwooldri]

40. What? We're going to ban women now?

How the heck do you do that?

[WilliamPitt]

46. Question

Wouldn't a "well-regulated militia" be a militia barred from posessing combat and assault weaponry.

That sounds "well-regulated" to me. You can guard the freedom of the state with a 30.06 or a Colt Python, too...and the venison tastes better when the deer doesn't taste like gasoline from the barrage of high-powered military-style rounds that killed it.

Just my humble o. I believe in gun ownership, especially after the Bush years. I believe you are correct that this is a losing issue for Democrats, especially after all the inroads we've made recently in Red States. McCain would be president without those states, and Obama will need them again in '10 and '12.

I also, however, believe the Framers put "well regulated" in there for a reason, and I think keeping AR-15s, AK-47s and modified grenade launchers out of the body politic qualifies. A .22 can defend your home, too.

[Jack Rabbit]

49. The AR-15

When I was in the Army, that was a weapon officers used against enlisted personnel.

[Statistical]

52. Well Regulated didn't mean regulation

Well regulated in the context of the 2nd (and other historical documents) means "well trained" or "capable".

If you truly are interested a great book is "The Founder's 2nd amendment". Lots of historical references. Newspaper articles, clipping, speaches, diary entries, letters, etc.

The British troops TOOK WEAPONS from citizens. Door to door in Boston and burned them. British common law allow freemen to have personal weapons. Common law didn't do much good when a tyrant was involved.

The shot heard round the world in Lexington happened because the British tried to size the powder house.

Blackpowder (unlike modern smokeless powder) is somewhat unstable. For safety each citizen had a small amount in their homes but the towns collective powder was stored in a powder house.
While taxes, and troops, and lack of representation lead to that point the "shot heard round the world" was the result of a skirmish when troops tried to sieze the gunpowder.

So the founders knew exactly what they were writing.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

In other words
A free state can only be secured by not just any milita but one who is WELL TRAINED, WELL EQUIPPED, CAPABLE, and FAMILAR with firearms, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

If the Constitution said this:
A well educated populace being necessary for free elections, the right of the People to own and read books shall not be infringed.

Would you think only books on government would be protected? or more it was the general idea that citizens having the write to read, share ideas, and pass down knowledge is good for the country.

The founders knew and understood that without a standing army (something they considered very dangerous) the only effective milita would be one that was familiar with firearms developed by a lifetime of experience.

Not sure where you get the idea that military rounds are "high powered" that 30-06 has about 70% MORE MUZZLE ENERGY than a 5.56mm NATO.
Maybe we should ban your sniper rifle (I mean 30.06 was designed to kill a man).
HOW DARE YOU SIR!!!!!! Think of the children. All of their lives are in danger because you insist of keeping SNIPER ROUNDS in your house. Somebody could use your rifle to kill somebody.
I call for the "Caliber control Act of 2010". Nobody NEEDS the stopping power of a 30.06 right?

[derby378]

55. Let's consider the paradigm of "hunting rifles" for just a moment

You mention the AR-15. That's the original name that Eugene Stoner gave to his rifle, now used by the military under the names M16 and M4.

The original design has been in a state of evolution ever since. Some of the first M16s jammed in combat during the Vietnam War because some military bureaucrat issued the wrong type of ammunition to our soliders because he wanted to save a few bucks for his bottom line - our troops started dying because of this. The original twist ratio of the AR barrel had to be recalibrated because there were accuracy issues in sub-zero climates. And although the AR family is more temperamental and high-maintenance than their Kalashnikov rivals, they're actually very nice guns that excel in accuracy the same way an AK excels in reliability.

Then there's the issue of hunting and ranching. Some civilians and retired military folks gravitated towards the Stoner design while searching for a civilian rifle that was useful for hunting or for keeping varmits and predators at bay. A lot of people still like the original 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge, but there's also a lot of folks who believe the round is simply too small and underpowered for effective hunting, especially if you want a humane "one shot, one kill" approach. I think some states even ban the use of 5.56 for hunting. So a few gunsmiths are building civilian versions of the AR that use .308 Winchester, .338 Federal, and other popular hunting calibers. They're all strictly semi-automatic and come with pistol grips, but designed for a lower-tempo "home on the range" lifestyle where the family hunter goes out, brings down a buck with a single shot, and is able to provide her family with supper for the next few days.

I bring all this up because, depending on how any new ban is worded, all of these versions of the Stoner design could also wind up on the verboten list.

[benEzra]

56. Umm, .30-06 is a high-powered military round; .223 and 7.62x39mm are NOT.

And M203-style grenade launchers are restricted to police/military only.

We're not talking about military weapons; we're talking about non-automatic, mostly small-caliber civilian guns with modern styling.

[jmg257]

66. Of course it was put in there for a reason, to require effective state militias,

that could be employed in federal service to fulfill the vital roles spelled out in the constitution - i.e to secure our freedoms (provide defense, enforce the laws, put down insurrections).

The people being well-armed and well-trained is "necessary", in order to make an effective militia. The guarantees enumerated in the constitution depend on it.

[RB TexLa]

4. So what your saying is if you make cute girls with guns illegal only criminal guns will have cute

girls? :)

[Renew Deal]

7. If yo outlaw cute girls with assault weapons

only outlaws will have cute girls with assault weapons

[Jackeen]

5. Oooh.. P90s.

I'm kindof looking at those. Unfortunately, the idiocy in California means that they need to be relatively substantially modified to be legal here.

The FS2000 behind it is even more problematic. Not only does it need lengthening, it's not a cheap rifle to begin with.

Cute girls, too.

[AlCzervik]

6. So now only ugly chicks can have what are those, assault type looking weapons?

[smalll]

8. Is that Octomom on the left?

Perhaps more unfortunately, I've heard that his career up until now reflects the fact that Holder is also severely in favor of the ban on this:

(But then, with a name like "Holder," I guess he probably had to come across straighter-than-thou on the weed issue.)

When did they repeal alcohol Prohibition? In 1933! At the beginning of a Depression, when new thinking and "change we could believe in" was required. No accident comrade, no acccident!

[spanone]

9. women with weapons?

[billyoc]

10. Yeah? I want those women to be 40 years old.

:rofl:

[Maru Kitteh]

12. Very carefully, please explain to us about 40 year old women, if you would?

As it pertains to your remark. Thanks.

[billyoc]

19. I'm 40, they look a little young for me.

What about it?

[Maru Kitteh]

35. Good man!

:-)

[derby378]

16. What's so bad about women being armed, anyway?

[Longteeth]

17. Eric Holder is full of crap!!!

You remember those two guys that robbed the bank in Cali? You know, the ones all done up in body armor and with full auto rifles (REAL ASSAULT WEAPONS). Did you ever hear about where those assault weapons came from? No? Probably, because it was not widely reported that they were tracked BACK TO THE MEXICAN ARMY!!!!

These "drug lords" are NOT getting their weapons from gun dealers in the states! That is total B.S. propaganda to push their PERSONAL anti-gun agenda!!!!

This is the kind of crap I was expecting from President Obama with regard to guns. It is why this Democrat stayed home on election day. If this crap is not stopped, AND fast, the ruthugs will be back in charge in two years. Do you people NOT remember what happened after the first (so called) assault weapon ban was passed? Hint: Read President Clinton's book on the subject.

[Renew Deal]

21. You didn't vote?

So basically what you have to say is bullshit.

[Parker CA]

27. Pretty hard to take this seriously considering you didn't even vote in Nov.

[derby378]

31. I run a pro-RKBA Democratic website, preside over a pro-RKBA state caucus...

...and yes, even I voted!

Dang, son, if you want to be heard, speak, already.

[Bobbieo]

34. AZ'z AG Terry Goddard maintains the drug carterls are getting their weapons from

dealers in the US. Anyway, he is prosecuting a Phoenix gun dealer who has been making deals with the cartel in Sinaloa. This drug war is not as much about drugs as it is about power and control through extortion, kidnapping, blackmail and murder.

[EFerrari]

38. US Vast Arms Bazaar for Mexican Cartels (NYTs)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5136770&mesg_id=5138106

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. damn hotity damn, didn't realize the Mexican Army started using

AKs instead of the FN-FAL... exactly when did this happen?

By the way, the FAL came to Mexico after OUR arms industry lost the contract when they replaced their M-1 Garands, where were in use until oh 1985 and I am sure still in storage... or for ahem ceremonial duties.

Gee golly, I learn things on DU all the time... really

(free clue, go to any footage of the Mexican Military in the streets and do kindly point to me the Ak-47s... I dare you, in fact I double dare you to do that)

Free clue, since you need another one

The side arm is a licensed version of the Colt 45 1911

And they also use 30 Cal LMG and 50 Cal HMG, Browning, mounted on US MADE Humvees

Now go buy a clue on your way out...

Now if you want to make this lie a little more believable... track it to either the Cartels, or some of the State police or Federal Police, that use CAPTURED AKs from ahem the Cartels.

By the way in case you wonder how I know this...

[HillbillyBob]

42. I don't see why we need assault weapons, if you are going to hunt deer

you should only need one or maybe two shots.
Then again if you bring somethin to the party bring enough for all of us!
And knowing a few gun dealers some of those weapons have to be coming from US manufacturers.
Um and the kind of crap you say from Obama ? what about the deaths from amBushcos inattention on 9/11? The arrest and torture of folks off the street like 50% of those guys were not terrorist before they were tortured, the other 50% should have been treated under the proper legal restraints not like the medieval inquisition which just killed any respect we had from other countries.
Actually we are considering getting some assualt weapons to protect our little farm.
Don't need them to hunt I and partner are good enough with a .22 long , 20g, 12g with buck shot or a .380 to kill what we need. Might not blow a hole big enough to throw a opossum thru but its enough to get it daid. thats a fact. Except maybe the 12 gauge..can throw a medium dog thru that hole using the big shells likely ..I have only ever had to use it to chase off a bunch of kkkreestians trying to burn a cross on my yard..gays with guns..if we say we will shoot you..bet on it.

[benEzra]

63. Only about 20% of U.S. gun owners are hunters.

More Americans lawfully own "assault weapons," taking H.R.1022 et seq as the operative definition, than hunt. They are the most popular centerfire target rifles and defensive carbines in the United States.

Having said that, there are quite traditional hunting guns that are "assault weapons" according to H.R.1022 et seq:







...and a whole lot more target guns.

[ManiacJoe]

65. Many so called "assault weapons" are good hunting rifles

and are actively used as such.

There is nothing special about ergonomic semi-auto carbines, and there is no need for special restrictions on them that do not apply to other similar weapons.

[FudaFuda]

18. link to article ... Holder calls for gun, ammo bans

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

[soccermomforobama]

22. I have a feeling that Pres. Obama might get a phone

call from Pres. Clinton with a gentle reminder about how this backfired on the Dems in the past.

On the other hand, this could be like Sec. LaHood and his wanting the mileage tax and then Obama came out and said no.

[Renew Deal]

23. I hope Obama puts a lid on it tomorrow.

It's a major distraction for us and fund raiser for republicans.

[leftofthedial]

24. Wait!

Don't ban it yet.

I need a few minutes.

[Renew Deal]

26. lol

:rofl:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

25. You know what finally put me off of shooting?

The other shooters. You know them, if you are a shooter: they show up at the range and proceed to go into some fugue state where they are military, or the closest thing to it. The whole 9 yards too. A lot of them, the closest they ever got to the military was their GI Joe with the kung fu grip. Puffed chests, attitudes, fucking right-wing as all getout...it got tedious. It got boring with the wannabe snipers and the faux SEALs. It was simply some of the most heavily armed people I have ever seen who shouldn't have ever been armed with anything more deadly than a Teriyaki Beef Jerky.

Tac holsters, indeed. Under love handles so huge they could never reach the weapon. Tac holsters on people who waddle. Sheeit.

But I would like me a small black Mossy, with a combat light, extended tube and a bandolier. For if the lid comes off.

[Parker CA]

28. "...who shouldn't have ever been armed with anything more deadly than a Teriyaki Beef Jerky."

:rofl:

Well done. Great image!

[derby378]

32. Honestly, I wouldn't say no to the Teriyaki Beef Jerky...

...and yes, I do have love handles, but damn! I feel for you.

[ipfilter]

45. Why do these people always insist they are ex SEALs?

It's a dead giveaway to a poser.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

58. I know.

Everyone is an ex-operator who HALO'ed into the very maw of hell, with TACNUKES going off around them, armed only with a combat folder. They proceeded to use it to whittle a spear with which he took out a whole enemy tank crew, took over the tank and singlehandedly beat the OPFOR and captured the country for truth, justice and the American Way.

I'm telling you, I fucking cringe when I see someone wearing a camo ANYTHING these days. If it's Tiger Stripes, I am just outta there. I am too afraid they will come over and start talking to me.

The best, however, was in a bar one night, when I was bouncing. Guy comes in in Class A's, Jump boots shiny, trousers bloused into the boots, green beanie on his head, Master Sargeant stripes, Ranger Patch, rope on his shoulder,4 miles of hash marks and campaign ribbons from his ankles to his shoulder. Later, a guy who was there told me the guy is not serving, never served, is a complete fraud.

Jeesus.

[benEzra]

61. You'd probably enjoy something like IPSC/USPSA/IDPA...

To paraphrase a cliche, it's been my observation at the range that those who can, do; those who can't, pose and brag. And there is nothing like shooting against a clock on scored targets to separate abilities from talk.

(And FWIW, I am not current or former military and make no claim to be, just a technical writer who works in the aviation industry.)

[ContinentalOp]

29. Oh no!

Where will we ever find another phallic symbol to stick into the hands of young women? Won't somebody please think of the creepy old men who get off on violence?

[Bluebear]

39. What, cheap gun porn?

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. Off the shoulder dresses?

[NightWatcher]

43. booga booga booga, scary black guns

None of these are full autos

[WilliamPitt]

44. Over my dead body

will boobies be banned.

From my cold dead hand etc.

[alfredo]

47. But he's going to stop raids on medical marijuana suppliers.

You win some, you lose some.

[dysfunctional press]

48. why does he want to ban skanks?

:shrug:

[tuckessee]

50. I love firearms and I especially love hot, beautiful females

But I always thought the "guns & babes" schtick was a little weird. It also reminds me of those calendars G. Gordon Liddy used to peddle on his radio show.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

51. I'll probaly get flamed...

but these "ladies" couldn't handle those things during battle. They don't look like they could handle the body damage they cause... let alone all the ammo they would have to carry on their backs because those things spit out bullets faster than they can be loaded.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. I don't know where to begin.

These weapons cause less damage than the most common rifles used to hunt deer. I was always impressed with the women I worked with in the military, I think you underestimate women. What do you think the rate of fire is for the weapons shown?

David

[benEzra]

59. Snort. Those are NON-automatic centerfire .22's

and fire exactly one cartridge when the trigger is held down, and won't fire another until the trigger is released and pulled a second time.

They are also the most popular centerfire target rifles in the United States, and are quite popular with small-statured individuals (including petite women) due to their very light recoil.





Notice the subtitle, "the mouse that roared"---because one term for the AR-15 when it first became popular as a target and sporting rifle was "the mousegun," used by those who derided it for its lack of power compared to more traditional rifles.

[iverglas]

54. did somebody just flush the toilet in GD again?

Can we not get the plumbing fixed around here?

It's hardly fair that all of this shit should end up in this one forum.

[benEzra]

60. Nobody's forcing you to read it...

or to frequent the Guns forum, for that matter. You're certainly welcome to do so, but one can hardly complain if one chooses to read threads one doesn't like.

[iverglas]

62. ya think?

Well you feel free not to read my posts, 'k?

Meanwhile, when I click on a post in a forum at DU that is titled with the name of a member of the new administration and am greeted with tits and tit jokes, I'll say what I like.

I'm sure you won't mind, will you?

At least I'm sure you won't complain.

[benEzra]

57. Two examples of the most popular civilian target rifle in the United States

and the most popular defensive carbine in U.S. homes. You do realize those are non-automatic civilian rifles (and centerfire .22's at that), not military automatic weapons, yes?



Another "assault weapon":

[Mugweed]

64. Ban unattractive women?

Sorry, but the gummy smile only creeps me out. Plus, even without the gummy smile these two aren't exactly above average. Plus, this plays into the idea that gun lovers just use guns as extensions of their insufficient penises.