More on the Micro Uzi.

[benEzra]

Boggles my mind that someone let the child shoot this gun instead of something tripod-mounted, or something with a long barrel and little muzzle climb.

An NFA Title 2/Class III restricted Micro Uzi's rate of fire is 20.8 rounds/second (1250 rounds/minute cyclic).

Think about the recoil of shooting even 8 or 9 rounds of 9mm in a half-second. That is the same amount of lead downrange as firing a single shell of 000 buckshot from a 12-gauge shotgun. From a handheld gun that isn't much larger than a pistol, weighs only 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds), and has the center of gravity WAY below the barrel axis. Meaning, the recoil from an extended burst would be like double- or triple-tapping a 3.3-pound 12-gauge pistol.

There is no way a typical 8-year-old could control that if more than a few rounds were loaded in the magazine, IMO.

[MercutioATC]

1. Recoil doesn't quite work that way...

You can't compare recoil by the aggregate amount of projectile fired.

That said, you're right...it's a lot of recoil...too much for most 8-year-olds to handle safely.

[benEzra]

2. The impulse/area under the curve is similar in this case

since (mm out of a short bbl and 000 buck are comparable in velocity, although the shotgun admittedly fires the projectiles simultaneously rather than sequentially. But integrated over a half-second or so, the area under the curve will be similar (and very substantial). And the Micro's geometry is very bad for control (it would probably be easier to keep the muzzle down on a Beretta 93R, and that's saying a lot).

Of course, hindsight is always 20/20, as they say.

[krispos42]

3. That's exactly the problem

Such a small, lightweight bolt gives it a high cyclic rate of fire. The gun would jump around all over the place.

This was extraordinary poor judgement on the father's part, and frankly if the distric attorney brought him up on charges I hope he goes to jail.

And you're absolutely right about the magazine, too. They should have stared out with only 3 rounds in the magazine and maybe worked up from there, if the kid could handle it.

[gorfle]

6. Don't blame the father, blame the instructor.

This was extraordinary poor judgement on the father's part, and frankly if the distric attorney brought him up on charges I hope he goes to jail.

Since the father evidently took his son here to shoot under the supervision of experts, as has been claimed, I place the blame not on the father but on the "expert". And I agree - this definitely sounds like negligence to me and I anticipate a lawsuit.

[Howzit]

7. "They should have stared out with only 3 rounds in the magazine and maybe worked up from there"

This is standard practice with novice shooters. I would start with one round and increase it by one round from there.

I have seen a novice turn around proclaiming that the first shot from a pistol wasn't "as bad as they thought" without the realization that a second shot was only a light touch away. If I train anyone with zero experience on a pistol I start with one round. If they cannot concentrate on keeping the muzzle pointed within a 45 degree cone downrange there is no second shot.

Verbal training of safe gun handling using an unloaded gun has to precede arriving at the firing line because there usually is too much noise to conduct instruction there.

[jody]

8. I understand but IMO no child that young should be allowed to fire an automatic with more than one

round in the gun period.

IMO the adult supervising the shooter made a mistake pure and simple and nothing can be said that changes that simple fact.

I just hope that such a tragic accident will be discussed throughout the shooting community and never allowed to happen again.

I have taught hunter safety courses in several states and I've reviewed hunting accidents from all states.

One that sticks in my mind is a grandfather killing his grandson with an arrow as he returned to the assembly point after the sun had set.

The grandson was on a path other than the expected one and grandfather thought he saw a deer in the very dim light.

Accidents happen to the best of us just as in the tragic accident I passed by the next morning on CA's Big Sur highway and saw a couple of body bags that had been recovered near Hurricane Point described in the article below.

CHP: Speed likely factor in students' crash

It was at least an hour past sunset Friday when three Stanford graduate students in the Jeep Cherokee approached the curve on Highway 1 at Hurricane Point.

Chris Sahm was driving. Micah Springer and Viet Nguyen were his two passengers. The School of Business students were on their way to Big Sur for a weekend retreat with classmates. They were supposed to arrive around 8 p.m., but they never made it.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

The road went left and Sahm didn't, Covello said.

Instead, the vehicle veered off the road to the west, crossed a 30-foot shoulder, hopped an 18-inch embankment, and tumbled down more than 600 feet in darkness.

I'm no stranger to death after all these years but it truly depresses me when death occurs in accidents that should not have occurred.
:cry:

[jody]

4. I can't understand what possessed a shooting coach to let an 8 year old fire such a firearm. I also

cannot understand why my close friend who taught safety courses for a major organization to reach under his lawn mower with engine running to take out a piece of wire that was wrapped around the blade and making a horrendous noise.

He learned to shoot very well left handed sans his trigger finger on his right hand.

I still don't know why a safety instructor loaded a 20 gauge shell into a 12 gauge Remington model 11-48 shotgun and then after noting that the chamber was empty loaded a 12 gauge shell into the chamber.

When fired, the shot found the path of least resistance which was a few inches forward of the chamber and out the side of the barrel in the 9 o'clock position.

That was before 20 gauge shells were produced in yellow color to prevent such stupid mistakes.

I keep the barrel to remind me that the most cautious among us can make a mistake.

I also don't understand how a pilot could land a plane with the gear up after turning off the warning signal that was blaring in his ear, but that happened.

Lesson learned, relearned, re-relearned, on and on is that accidents sometimes happen to the best of us.

[benEzra]

5. Yup.

Re: gear up landings, that reminds me of an FAA report from a few months ago:


** Report created 3/28/2008 Record 27 **
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 4835V Make/Model: C172 Description: 172, P172, R172, Skyhawk, Hawk XP, Cutla
Date: 03/23/2008 Time: 2045
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
City: WYNNE State: AR Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT DURING LANDING, LANDING GEAR LEVER WAS SELECTED INSTEAD OF CARB HEAT, AND THE GEAR RETRACTED.
WYNNE, AR
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Landing Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: LITTLE ROCK, AR (SW11) Entry date: 03/24/2008