DC to seal off neighborhoods...

[virginia mountainman]

They will be setting up "Checkpoints" Demanding to see "papers" and denying entry to anyone "who does not have a valid reason" to be their...

Just another demonstration of the complete and total ineptitude of the DC leadership, and Police..

LOL I can't wait till they get their asses handed to them by the supreme court in the "Heller case".


http://www.examiner.com/a-1423820~Lanier_plans_to_seal_off_rough__hoods_in_latest_effort_to_stop_wave_of_violence.html

Here is a nice quote from the article

D.C. police will seal off entire neighborhoods, set up checkpoints and kick out strangers under a new program that D.C. officials hope will help them rescue the city from its out-of-control violence.

Under an executive order expected to be announced today, police Chief Cathy L. Lanier will have the authority to designate “Neighborhood Safety Zones.” At least six officers will man cordons around those zones and demand identification from people coming in and out of them. Anyone who doesn’t live there, work there or have “legitimate reason” to be there will be sent away or face arrest

EDIT, So now that the gun bans, are worse than worthless, DC leadership fully intends, to go down the Bill of Rights, one by one.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

1. Life imitates art.

[FatDave]

43. My thoughts exactly. (nt)

[peacebird]

2. trying the Baghdad and Fallujah bunkering in DC? great...... (sarcasm)

[wtmusic]

5. A wall, if done tastefully, would be much more effective

:sarcasm:

[babylonsister]

3. Now I know why 190 MS guardsmen are heading to DC...

but air defense? :shrug:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/06/ap_missguard_060208/

190 Miss. guardsmen head off to protect D.C.

The Associated Press
Posted : Tuesday Jun 3, 2008 12:51:00 EDT

NEWTON, Miss. — About 190 soldiers from a Mississippi Army National Guard unit are set to mobilize Monday in preparation for a deployment.

The battalion will travel to Fort Bliss, Texas, before going Washington D.C., where it will protect the nation’s capital.

This will be the second deployment for the 1st Battalion, 204th Air Defense Artillery, based in Newton. The deployment is expected to last about a year.

A sendoff ceremony is scheduled for 3 p.m. Tuesday at the Gene Maske Readiness Center in Jackson.

[virginia mountainman]

7. WOW.... That is UNNERVING. NT

[gateley]

9. Whoa. "To protect our nation's capital".

What the fuck does that MEAN, exactly? I guess the OP tells us.

[iverglas]

12. now you, gately, I'd taken for rational

I'd think it means that there are National Guard units deployed to DC regularly, at least these days, to do exactly what you quoted: "protect <your> nation's capital". And there's a rotation about to take place, or additional strength added, for that purpose.

Why anyone would find this noteworthy is beyond me.

Why anyone would believe, or pretend to believe, that it has anything to do with the subject of this thread, well, sometimes I just shrug too.

[gateley]

17. I can understand increased security --

but closing off neighborhoods? Doesn't that seem a bit extreme to you?

[iverglas]

20. no, you see, what seemed "a bit extreme" to me

was someone thinking, or pretending to think, that the deployment of a National Guard unit to DC in what appears to be a normal rotation of troops stationed there for civil defence purposes has anything to do with the subject of this thread.

"Extreme" would actually be the wrong word here. "Disingenuous" or "loony" might be better.

[Tejas]

34. Care to

provide a link to "what you think"?

[AtheistCrusader]

19. Air defense.

We probably only speculate what is in place, but I've seen mobile SAM launchers on military vehicles in DC. I don't think they are being sent as related 'crowd control' in connection to the OP.

[iverglas]

22. phew

A 21-gun salute is usually fired when someone in the Guns forum agrees with me.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. It's possible

There is a connection, but I doubt it. Deploying soldiers in this manner on US soil requires a bit of... uh.. paperwork. I can only think of two instances in my lifetime, the Rodney King riots, and in New Orleans after Katrina. I may be missing some examples, but it seems extremely rare.

I don't think any kind of state of emergency has been delcared in this case, so yeah, I don't see a connection here. I think caution is a good idea when discussing something serious like the OP, which is disturbing enough on it's own. Seems like they could be getting close to trampling on free association, drug/crime problem or not. That's serious business. No need to get alarmed over something unrelated.

Edit: Just saw your second story/link on the issue. Sounds much more reasonable, and probably legal on the face of it.

[virginia mountainman]

23. Yes...BUT

They are soldiers none, the less. Just because the specialize in anti-aircraft weaponry, does not mean that their soldiers cannot "do other things"

During WWII some of the most potent anti-tank units, WAS Air-defence units...

They can, and DO "multi task", our military is doing much of the same in Iraq and Afganastain right now.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. Sure, that's true.

A lot of gun bunnies were deployed in Iraq as normal troops, instead of Artillery. But this is an ongoing mission, to the best of my knowledge. SOME unit has been deployed, continuously to the captial since 9/11, again, to the best of my knowledge.

I don't see a connection between this and the OP, though I am open to the possibility. I think jumping to conclusions is a bit premature in this case.

[virginia mountainman]

29. I concer...

But...It does bear watching...exspeshaly in light of what happened in New Orleans after Katrina.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Can you elaborate?

One of my co-workers was activated for that. I am of the impression that the National Guard conducted itself professionally, and followed it's orders to the letter.

Did I miss something?

[virginia mountainman]

32. I seem to recall..

An old lady getting tackled in her home, and drug out....among other things.

[AtheistCrusader]

35. That was California Highway Patrol

brought in to enforce the mandatory evac. Not National Guard. I'm not arguing they were in the right to do so, but it was a different entity than the National Guard.

I don't recall any news of them doing that, and in fact, if you recall the initial video footage of Lt. Gen. Honore ordering troops to put away their rifles, and... I can't recall the specifics, but essentially he clarified to them that they were there to help, that they were dealing with US Citizens.

Honore retired earlier this year, I hope his replacement is as good, someday we may need that quality of service again.

[virginia mountainman]

36. You are correct...

It WAS the California Highway Patrol.... I stand corrected.


:toast:

[benEzra]

86. Some Oklahoma National Guard Units, the Federal DEA, and some CHP...

participated in some illegal seizures of lawfully owned firearms from New Orleans homeowners, although thankfully some wiser heads squashed that pretty quick.

[krispos42]

68. The DC area has pleny of troops there already.

There are a couple of bases there. A Marine barracks in there, the Naval Acadamy is near by, a couple of Air Force bases chock-full of airmen with M-16s, and the Norfolk Navy base has plenty of sailors.

190 guys with SAMs is not any kind of noticable increase in force levels.

[krispos42]

69. But those were not missiles

Back they they only had anti-aircraft artillery, high-velocity guns like the German Flak 88 and our 90mm M1A1. They were as large or larger than the tank guns of the era and the much longer barrels gave them a lot more muzzle velocity.

I don't think you can use a Patriot against a tank in today's world.

[hack89]

42. Routine deployment. - they are an Air Defense unit

There will man the anti-aircraft missiles put in place post 9/11.

[bdamomma]

51. what the hell are these thugs planning.

[iverglas]

53. maybe

to round up all the stupid people and take their keyboards away from them before they do themselves damage ...

[krispos42]

67. 1st Battalion, 204th Air Defense Artillery

It's gotta be surface-to-air missiles like Patriots.

Calm down.

[iverglas]

11. if that wasn't meant as a joke

could you get any lower?

[babylonsister]

13. What do you mean? It's from the Army Times.

Edit to add this: I see the link has expired.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x15710

[iverglas]

16. Let's pretend

Let's pretend that I wasn't talking about what YOU said, which was NOT from the Army Times:

Now I know why 190 MS guardsmen are heading to DC...


Here's the current link:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/06/ap_missguard_060208/


And I don't know what you were directing my attention to in the other thread, but I'll direct your attention to this:

3. I thought they've done this on a rotating basis since 9/11.

Gee, d'ya think? Why, I was just musing to that effect myself here.


So then. Are you seriously saying that the deployment of this National Guard unit to DC is somehow - anyhow, your choice - connected with the subject of this thread?

[babylonsister]

24. I was obviously thinking that which is why I retrieved the story.

When I first saw the story I was wondering what those Nat'l Guard might be doing in DC.

I could very well be wrong, but your snark is showing. Lighten up.

[sui generis]

4. I've seen that in Tijuana, Monterrey, Acapulco, Rio, Caracas

and Puerta Vallarta.

Oh well. If there was any doubt that we're well on our way to third world . . .

So, New Yorkers, answer this question:

When police are doing a "sweep", sealing a street in alphabet city and checking ID's and pockets in NYC, how is that different? Is it different? How did Ms. Paper Moon get caught with crack in her pockets?

[gateley]

6. And so it begins. nt

[babylonsister]

8. Rec'd to get this on front page so DUers are aware this is happening. nt

[RufusTFirefly]

10. Sealing off areas has some precedent

By the way, I love the way the article buries the lede. It's in the very last sentence.

Thomas said, though, that he worried about D.C. “moving towards a police state.”

Gee. D'ya think?

[iverglas]

14. yeah, and I love how you quoted that without context

What you quoted:

Thomas said, though, that he worried about D.C. “moving towards a police state.”

What came immediately before it:

The proposal has the provisional support of D.C. Councilman Harry “Tommy” Thomas, D-Ward 5, whose ward has become a war zone.

“They’re really going to crack down on what we believe to be a systemic problem with open-air drug markets,” Thomas told The Examiner.

[TomInTib]

15. Every journey starts with the first step.

This can come to no good end.

They will never stop the street trade in DC.

[iverglas]

18. for you

You seem to be needing it.


http://www.fstdt.com/winace/pics/index.htm

Lordy, it really is possible to argue against something on its merits without screeching that the sky is falling.

[TomInTib]

21. Would you care for your neighborhood to be sealed off?

Would you want to be pulled over every time you turned onto your street?

Maybe have your car searched?

Maybe have to submit to a Breathalyzer test?

I certainly would not.

But then, I don't have to worry, as I live in the wealthiest, whitest small town in the country.

[iverglas]

25. You may be asking the wrong person

I grew up in the wealthiest, whitest small city in my country.

I now live in the poorest urban census division in Canada, which is probably the least white as well.

And to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be really distressed if the police were to park up across from the 7-11 and checkpoint-charlie the hookers and drug dealers who don't live on my block but use it as their single window service point, and my front porch as their waiting room, and my backyard as their boudoir.

I'd have to see how it went. I think it might be an improvement from the "well what do you expect? you live on ____ Street" response my neighbour and I got from one local cop after remarking on the difficulty of getting calls about disturbances responded to ...




incoherent syntax fixed

[gorfle]

71. You could be right, Iverglas.

You could be right, Iverglas, and in this case, you probably are. There probably isn't anything any more sinister going on right now than checking IDs trying to weed out gang members and drug traffickers from the neighborhoods.

But this is also precisely the way more sinister things could start. These kinds of actions make me nervous.

[RufusTFirefly]

31. Gee. That context makes it so much easier to swallow.

Not.

No matter how you dress it up, a police state is still a police state.

[iverglas]

39. I really don't care what you put in your mouth

Providing the context established that the person whom you quoted supports the measure. You seemed to be rather at pains to conceal that fact. Just a fact, you know? Won't hurt you, really. If you choose to choke on it, your choice.

[RufusTFirefly]

41. Actually, including that information would've made it even worse

I didn't leave it out to conceal things. I simply went to the key paragraph.
In fact, had I included that "context," it might've led many to conclude "Omigod! Even the guy who SUPPORTS this is worried about the potential for a police state."

So you see. I was actually pulling my punches, not withholding information to strengthen my case.

[iverglas]

27. details

Some of which refute aspects of some blanket statements in the report initially quoted.

http://www.nbc4.com/news/16493835/detail.html

... Safety zones will be established when a district commander presents evidence like intelligence, violent crime data and police reports that shows a trend of violent crime in a neighborhood. Once approved by Lanier, the safety zones will be effective for a maximum of 10 days.

Public safety checks will be established along main thoroughfares. People driving into the neighborhoods could be asked to show proof of residence in the neighborhood or explain why they are entering the neighborhood. Pedestrians will not be subject to the checks.

"The Neighborhood Safety Zones is just another tool MPD will employ to stop crime before it happens," Lanier said. "The Neighborhood Safety Zone initiative will help residents terrorized by violent crime to take back their neighborhoods."

Such initiatives have been accepted by federal courts as legitimate and constitutional law enforcement practices. ...

[RufusTFirefly]

33. I'm sure it will be used wisely and won't be abused

I mean, look how well Tasers have worked out.

:sarcasm:

[Irreverend IX]

38. These anti-authoritarian discussions sure get you riled up, don't they?

First you went on your holy crusade to defend the jackboots stomping on Mr. Transformer T-Shirt and now you're churning out reams of text trying to convince people that groups of police blockading neighborhoods and conducting random searches are as innocent and harmless as a band of children selling chocolate door-to-door. But for all the typing you do, the only thing I hear you saying is:

"The organs of state security do not make mistakes!"

I'm quite curious as to why you work so hard urging us to acquiesce to transgressions against privacy, dignity and rationality perpetrated by state authorities. I mean, I know that you're not opposed to the idea of civil liberties. Some people will encourage any abrogations of due process as long as they're focused on minority populations, but I know you don't support that. I've even encountered people who self-identify with authority and derive a twisted sense of satisfaction from watching the state crack down on citizens, but I know you're not that kind of person.

So tell us, why is it so important to you that we not question security and law enforcement policies?

[iverglas]

40. anti-authoritarian discussion? where???

Please, send me directions.

I'm seeing nutbar conspiracy drivel and misrepresentation of facts.

I'm also not seeing any thought about the reactions of people actually affected by these measures.

Anybody found any?

Or nobody care?

The latter, I figure.

Nobody here actually gives a shit about the people who are actually living in what, to all appearances, is a rather dangerous situation.

If somebody does, maybe they'll come up with something the DC authorities can do to relieve them.

[RufusTFirefly]

45. Perhaps we should cut off your hands

You know. Just to be on the safe side.

Oh sure, it might hurt a bit, but it would guarantee that you'd never type anything objectionable.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

A lot of people seem to forget that annoying little "probable cause" clause. Perhaps you are actually CIA Director Michael Hayden? He seemed to have trouble with that part too.

[iverglas]

46. perhaps you're a "liberal"

I know that in some quarters "liberals" are regarded as obnoxious boors, but I didn't think that was the behavioural norm for "liberals" around here.

I keep thinking that "liberals" are supposed to be the people who give a shit about somebody besides themselves. I keep looking for the evidence at DU ...


That amendment you cite is fascinating, I'm sure.

If only there were something in all this about searches and seizures, eh?



Perhaps you are actually CIA Director Michael Hayden?

Perhaps you're a "liberal". You certainly fit the model. Nasty, self-absorbed, self-centred species, in my experience. Meeting them always makes me glad I'm not.

[iverglas]

50. special delivery for you

Don't miss post 48.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=174436&mesg_id=174527

Cut you off at the knees, I guess.

[beevul]

52. YOU OWE ME!!!

"First you went on your holy crusade to defend the jackboots stomping on Mr. Transformer T-Shirt and now you're churning out reams of text trying to convince people that groups of police blockading neighborhoods and conducting random searches are as innocent and harmless as a band of children selling chocolate door-to-door."

Well, if I had soda in my mouth you would anyway...owe me a keyboard that is.

That is the single funniest thing I have read in ages. I laughed so hard it hurt.


Lemme buy ya a beer:

[iverglas]

54. if only it were true, eh?

But then, most jokes aren't, I guess.


An American, an Australian and a Canadian were sitting in a bar enjoying a few beers.

The American grabbed his Budweiser, knocked it back in one gulp, threw the glass into the air, and shot it with his handgun. As he set the gun on the bar, he said to the Australian and the Canadian, “In the great U.S. of A. we have so much money, we never drink out of the same glass twice.”

Next the Australian drank his Fosters, threw the glass into the air, and shot the glass with the American’s gun. As he was setting the gun back on the bar, he proclaimed, “In Australia, we have so much sand that glass is cheap, and we too never drink out of the same glass twice.”

Finally, the Canadian drank his Labatts Blue, grabbed the gun off the bar, and shot the American. As he was setting the gun back on the bar, he told the Australian, “In Canada, we have so many Americans, we never have to drink with the same one twice.”

[beevul]

57. Those wacky jokes...

A Texan, a Canadian, and a guy from Michigan are out riding horses.

The Texan pulls out an expensive bottle of whiskey, takes a shot, then another, and suddenly throws the bottle in the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the bottle in mid air. The Canadian looks at him and says, "What are you doing?! That was a perfectly good bottle of whiskey!" The Texan says, "In Texas, there's plenty of whiskey and bottles are cheap."

A while later, not wanting to be outdone, the Canadian pulls out a bottle of champagne, takes a few sips, throws the bottle in the air, pulls out his gun and shoots it. The guy from Michigan can't believe this and says, "What did you do that for? That was an expensive bottle of Champagne!"
The Canadian says "In Canada there's plenty of Champagne and bottles are cheap."

So a while later the guy from Michigan pulls out a bottle of beer. He opens it, takes a sip, takes another sip, and then chugs the rest. He then puts the bottle back in his saddlebag, pulls out his gun, turns around and shoots the Canadian.

The Texan, shocked, says, "Why did you do that?"

The guy from Michigan says, "Well, in Michigan, we have plenty of Canadians, but bottles are worth a dime."

[iverglas]

60. I'd forgotten that one

Ah, nasties but goodies.

Okay, but this is still my favourite, just because it's so dumb still.


A train compartment had 4 people in it: two women and two men. One man was American, and the other was a Canadian. At point point the train suddenly entered a tunnel. In the darkness there was a loud 'SLAP!'

When the train emerged everyone noted that the American had a big red hand mark on his face.

The first woman thought, "That damn American must have touched that woman, and she gave him what he deserved!"

The second woman thought, "That damn American must have touched that woman, and she gave him what he deserved!"

The American thought, "That damn Canadian must have touched one of the women, and she thought it was me and she smacked me by mistake!"

The Canadian thought, "I hope we go under another bridge so I can smack that damn American again."

[beevul]

62. Ok, one more, a little nicer, and I'm done.

An American man is having his coffee, croissants, bread, butter and jam at the breakfast table when a Canadian sits down next to him.
The American ignores the Canadian who, nevertheless, starts a conversation. "You American folk eat the whole bread?" asks the Canadian with a large piece of chewing gum in his mouth.

"Of course!"

The Canadian blows a bubble with his chewing gum, then remarks, "We don't. In Canada, we only eat what's inside. We collect the crusts in containers, recycle them, then transform them into croutons, and sell them to the United States."

The Canadian has a smirk on is face. All the while, the American listens in silence.

"Do ya eat jelly with the bread?" asks the Canadian.

"Of course!"

The Canadian cracks his gum between his teeth and chuckles, "We don't. In Canada, we eat fresh fruit for breakfast and put all peel, seeds and leftovers in containers, recycle them, then transform them into jam, and sell it to the U.S."

"And, what do you Canadians do with condoms once you've used them?" asks the American.

"We throw them away, of course," replies the Canadian, with a dumbfounded look.

The American explains, "WE don't. In the U.S., we put them in a container, recycle them, then melt them down into chewing gum and sell it to Canada.

[iverglas]

63. I hadn't forgotten that one

In fact, I was just reading it last week when I had the other version of the smacking joke.

http://www.geocities.com/seandlh/jokes.htm, eh?

Where I see the Michigan bottle joke too ... it's a fair and balanced joke site.

But this one really is still my all-time favourite.



This is the transcript on an ACTUAL radio conversation of a US Naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations 10 - 10 - 95.

Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.

Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the south to avoid a collision.

Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

Canadians: No. I say again you divert YOUR course.

Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES` ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE OR MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.

Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.

[beevul]

66. LOL. n/t

[iiibbb]

79. My Canadian Joke

What's the difference between Canadians and Americans?

...




Canadians think there's a difference.

[iverglas]

82. it comes in many flavours

or flavors.

Chiefly, in this case, "Canadians know there's a difference". Works both ways, ya gotta admit.

http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedians/Canada
True story - Someone once asked "what's the difference between Canadians and Americans?"
The reply came, "Well they're similar to Americans, except likable."


Here's an interesting one:

Another way to tell the difference between a Canadian and an American is
to invite the suspected Canuck to lunch and watch him eat. If he's really
upper crust, he'll eat like an Englishman, with knife and fork held firmly
in his right and left hands. He'll cut with his knife, pack the results
on the back of his fork and convey the food to his mouth with the fork
still in this left hand.

Many an American eats with knife and fork, too, but in a different way.
He takes the knife in his right hand and the fork in his left to cut up
the food. Then he puts the knife down and takes the fork in the right
hand to convey the food to his mouth.

A common garden-variety Canadian does the job differently. He doesn't
use his knife at all, except for particularly stubborn steaks and other
such tough foods. Instead he takes the fork in his right hand and leaves
the knife beside his plate. Then he cuts the food with the edge of the
fork and feeds himself with the fork held in the same hand.


Huh. My left hand is useless; as my grandmother used to say, it's just along for the ride. So if I do it the first way, I risk missing my mouth. The co-vivant is left-handed to ambidextrous, so he does it the first way, but without that weird packing behaviour. I do it the second way if I have to. Normally, I do it the third way, and I thought it was just because I'm lazy and uncouth. Last night he was getting the entrenching tools for supper, meatloaf and macaroni, and was about to get me a knife, again. Every night I have to pick up the clean knife and haul it back to the kitchen separately (he does the dishes, so I'm being considerate). I finally said 'stop giving me a knife unless we're eating some hunk of meat or other', three different ways so maybe he'll remember. What a common garden-variety Canadian I am.


Here ya go, posted somewhere by a user named Canadian Tire Money (the difference between an American and a Canadian being that every Canadian has Canadian Tire money in the kitchen drawer ... and can distinguish it from real Canadian money ...):

the fundimental difference between a canadian and an american is as follows:
an american complains about everything all the time.
a canadian complains about americans all the time.

[gorfle]

74. Very insightful post, Nabehin.

"The organs of state security do not make mistakes!"

This, in fact, is one of the tenets of faith of the anti-firearm position. That is, there will never be a need for the governed to defend themselves through force of arms from the government.

Any incident that shakes this fundamental premise causes cognitive dissonance and will be railed against.

Your post is one of the most shortest and yet most insightful I have ever seen that makes this point. Well done.

[stillcool]

58. More Details..

Officials said police will stop all cars driving in the 1400 block of Montello Avenue, between Penn Street and Oates Street and about a block east of Gallaudet University.

"We're going to screen who's coming into the area, and who doesn't have a legitimate purpose to be in the area," Lanier said.

Drivers will have to show identification proving they live in the neighborhood, or explain why they are in the area. Valid reasons would include "attending church, a doctor's appointment or visiting friends or relatives," the city said in a statement. Those lacking identification or a reason to be in the neighborhood will be forced to leave.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. I thought violence was a thing of the past in DC.

You mean the gun ban isn't working. I'm shocked.

David

[iverglas]

47. No you didn't

It's beyond me why you keep saying such moronic things.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

72. Your sarcasm detector is broken.

[Tejas]

49. DC's biggest Gungeon anti said it was, so

it must be true.

Murders down from 350 a year to ONLY 165 annually, yay for the DC gun ban!

[SteveM]

73. From a related article about "Comrade Phil"...

- Get this: If cops arrest someone for carrying a pistol, they have to take the gun into the basement of police headquarters and fire it into a water barrel to prove that it’s operable — before taking the suspect to court.

- Get this: If cops stop a car and find a gun on the back seat, they can’t arrest the driver for possession because he wasn’t holding it.

- Get this: If someone is found guilty of carrying a weapon without a license, the penalty is a misdemeanor, no worse than a traffic ticket.



But if they were carrying a baggie of pot, things would be different, esp. when the dope is taken to police headquarters and fired up in a water barrel to prove that it's operable.

[FatDave]

44. Didn't Rosemont, IL try this once?

Could've swore when I lived in the area they were going to start checking ID's of people coming into certain areas. Like around 2003/2004 or so. Anybody know how that turned out?

[iverglas]

48. more details

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060402205.html

D.C. police will stop cars and question drivers along a main thoroughfare of the Trinidad neighborhood starting this Saturday, Mayor Adrian M. Fenty said, in an unprecedented effort to stanch a rash of shootings in that part of Northeast Washington.

The "Neighborhood Safety Zones" program announced this morning is a response to a triple slaying in Trinidad at 4 a.m. Friday, and other recent violence. In the 5th police district, which includes Trinidad, 22 people have been killed so far this year, one more than in all of 2007.

... But despite the tough rhetoric, the program as explained seemed fairly limited in scope. Pedestrians will not be subjected to police checks, for example, and loitering will not be addressed. While Montello Avenue stretches about seven blocks between Mt. Olivet Road and Florida Avenue, the checkpoints will be in effect only along the 1400 block.

Lanier said the approach is modeled after a program used in New York City. She said police are focusing on cars because there have been a significant numbers of shootings from or into vehicles this year.

Police will search cars if they feel they have probable cause to do so. Drivers who don't cooperate with the request to produce identification or who object to being refused entrance to the block could face arrest for failing to obey police.

[iverglas]

55. but then, why read the facts

when there's a good round of falsehood-based fuckwitted gummint-hating to be engaged in?

[stillcool]

56. more from the article...

Officials said police will stop all cars driving in the 1400 block of Montello Avenue, between Penn Street and Oates Street and about a block east of Gallaudet University.

"We're going to screen who's coming into the area, and who doesn't have a legitimate purpose to be in the area," Lanier said.

Drivers will have to show identification proving they live in the neighborhood, or explain why they are in the area. Valid reasons would include "attending church, a doctor's appointment or visiting friends or relatives," the city said in a statement. Those lacking identification or a reason to be in the neighborhood will be forced to leave.

[RufusTFirefly]

59. Thanks for that. Wonder why iverglas tried to "conceal" that part... n/t

[iverglas]

61. I wonder what I'm not getting

Not seeing anything there that substantiates any of the gummint-hating deceit that's been passing for reportage in this thread, I'm afraid.

Officials said police will stop all cars driving in the 1400 block of Montello Avenue, between Penn Street and Oates Street and about a block east of Gallaudet University.

... Uh huh. That's pretty much what the bits I pasted said. I also didn't paste the bit that said ONLY the 1400 block.

"We're going to screen who's coming into the area, and who doesn't have a legitimate purpose to be in the area," Lanier said.

... Uh ... as compared to ... hand out lollipops? What were we imagining they were doing?

Gosh, maybe I should have assumed the reading public here was even duller than was on display.

Drivers will have to show identification proving they live in the neighborhood, or explain why they are in the area. Valid reasons would include "attending church, a doctor's appointment or visiting friends or relatives," the city said in a statement. Those lacking identification or a reason to be in the neighborhood will be forced to leave.

... Uh ... huh ... and again, we thought maybe they were going to play 20 questions and then wave them on their way? Was there someone in the vicinity who hadn't grasped that the purpose of this exercise was to prevent people from driving into a neighbourhood beset by drive-by shootings if they could not explain their reason for wanting to do so in some way?

I copied and pasted the max of five paragraphs. I'm so happy to see that I prompted others to read for themselves.


What's so funny here is that there are "gated communities" all over the US doing all this and so much more, and I've never seen a thread here whining about that. Yes, safe neighbourhoods are only for the élite, I get it.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/31/AR2008053102342_2.html?sid=ST2008060100043

Just before 1 a.m., Shannon Shamar Lewis, 27, a furniture mover, left his apartment in the 5300 block of C Street SE in the Marshall Heights area, where he lived with his mother, Michelle Lewis, his grandmother and one of his three young children.

The street dips and rises like a shallow V, with the playing fields of C.W. Harris Elementary School on one side and single-family houses and Urban Outreach Apartments on the other. As Lewis stood waiting, his family, in the apartment, heard gunshots.

"I called 911 and went outside," said the grandmother, who declined to give her name. "I looked that way, then someone said to go the other way. Shamar was lying in the parking lot."

Two other men were wounded, one of them critically, in what police said was a drive-by shooting.

... "I saw all the shootings on TV, and I thought, 'Even if they catch these people, that won't bring my baby back,'" Lewis's grandmother said.

I wonder when somebody will ask Shannon Lewis's grandmother what she thinks about it all.

[maxidivine]

81. odd story

Shot on a street corner at one in the morning, was a furniture mover, so we can safely guess he was not on the job, what was he waiting for at one am anyway?

I bet he was waiting for someone to deliver some pizza.

[iverglas]

83. ya think?

Shot on a street corner at one in the morning, was a furniture mover, so we can safely guess he was not on the job

Safely guess? Is that like "assume"?

If he happened to be employed in inter-city moving, he might well have been waiting to get picked up to drive to a delivery to be made in the early morning.

Or he might have been on the street corner selling crack cocaine.

In which case would it be more acceptable for someone to have fired multiple bullets out of a moving car in a residential neighbourhood?

[maxidivine]

84. You're right, he could have been on a job.

And no, it is not acceptable to be firing at people most of the time, however, were he a drug dealer in gang territory like much of D.C. is then his demise would be predictable.

[krispos42]

70. Prolly cuz of the 4-paragraph quotation limit n/t

[Irreverend IX]

64. Thanks for setting us straight, Iverglas.

The government loves us and always does what's best for us, and only a dirty commie traitor would think to question them. The fact that lots of people are murdered in that DC neighborhood clearly justifies an abrogation of constitutional rights, just like 9/11 justified the Patriot Act. You'll have to excuse me, I'm going to to go report all the traitors in this thread to the Federal TIPS program for sedition. God bless America, land of the free!

[iverglas]

65. I'll be waiting

an abrogation of constitutional rights

Nobody seems to have told me exactly what rights are being "abrogated", and how.

I'm not saying there is no interference in the exercise of rights going to happen (really, police and municipal authorities do not "abrogate" rights, surely you're aware), but then I'm also not saying that there is never justification for such interference, and that there wouldn't be justification for such interference in this instance.

I'm just wanting to know what it is, first.


You'll have to excuse me, I'm going to to go report all the traitors in this thread to the Federal TIPS program for sedition.

Hey, given the innuendo and insult that you persist in trying to pass of as political discourse -- I wouldn't actually be at all surprised. The actions would suit the attitude perfectly.

[maxidivine]

80. Yes, we will prevent people shooting into vehicles...

By asking why people are in the neighborhood. Hopefully the people will be truthful and let the police know they are there to have their vehicle shot up.

Brilliant plan D.C., Brilliant plan.

[ogsbee]

75. This slippery slope will lead to gun confiscation and much else

(Copying my post from a Latest Breaking News thread, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3338680, on the same subject, if that's OK:)

Here are some of those friendly cameras / Keep moving citizens







Don't kid yourself, the elitopaths have turned on the citizens. You may feel safe if you weren't a Katrina victim, you're not black, you're not from the inner city -- but you'd be a fool. This is a cloth woven from a single thread. The issue here is control (whether carried out by Democratic useful fools or their Repukelican masters). Our masters feel they will become richer by throwing U.S. citizens into extreme poverty rather than by sharing the wealth (i.e. the economy is structured to reward financial parasites, no longer a jobs economy). Or to put it another way, they have become frightened of us. This is just the beginning. Passes, walls, gun confiscation -- it's all coming.

Here are the perps:

Chief Cathy L. Lanier



Mayor Adrian Fenty (Wash. D.C.'s Mayor Goode)

[ogsbee]

76. Keep moving citizens II

Feel cornered in yet?

The NYPD uses these. There's one protecting the Chinese consulate at 42nd and West (near the Circle Liner). Totalitarians stick together. I've seen them in Times Square also.

[SteveM]

85. War of the Worlds! (nt)

[jody]

77. I understand D.C.'s LEO frustration with curbing crime but until the communities affected get

involved by acting as witnesses, then IMO little progress will be made.

As long as the criminals, actually terrorists from my perspective, have a safe haven in the community they can commit violent crime with little risk of serving time.

One possible method used by a few cities is to use a rapid telephone alert system when a violent crime is reported.

For example, when a crime is reported it's possible for the 911 operator to know immediately the approximate location of the crime and with one keystroke notify all people on a predetermined call list to be on the look out for possible fleeing criminals.

That could lead to more arrests, prosecutions, and convictions.

One example is Community Alert Network (CAN)

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

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