America's Shooting Gallery, 5-2-08

[zanne]

LA: Double shooting leaves 1 dead in Iberville
TX: Suspect in trooper's shooting kills himself
TN: Man Killed After Shooting Outside Club
VA: Man accused of shooting teen in foot surrenders
MD: Man Admits to Shooting During Baby Shower
ME: Portland Police Investigate Munjoy Hill Shooting
PA: Hearing Today in Church Shooting
NY: 2 men being held in fatal shooting in Mohawk Valley city
TX: Mesquite man charged in wife's fatal shooting
FL: Sarasota Man Accused In Fatal Shooting Of Sister
***

Source: http://www.gunguys.com

[fascisthunter]

1. Hey... Thanks for the Link

I'm joining up....

[SteveM]

30. wow. (nt)

[onehandle]

2. Yeah, but do you see Osama bin Laden on Main Street USA?

Guns obviously do their job.

[Tejas]

3. curious

"TX: Suspect in trooper's shooting kills himself"


Since you're so adamant towards guns, would you support a gun law that prohibits ex-LEO's from possession of firearms?



hint: killer is/was ex-LEO.

[Tejas]

32. still wondering n/t

[facepalm]

4. good work OP

Why attract votes from a few million gun owners when we can curry favor with a few dozen anti-gun astroturfers? I mean, it isn't like the gun owners have anyone else to vote for, do they?

[zanne]

5. The majority of Americans favor stricter gun control.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/04/12/poll.guns/index.html

[zanne]

6. Oh--and there's this......

http://www.orspub.com/page39.html


From 2007(ABC News)

[jmg257]

20. Self delete

[Indy Lurker]

23. What does stricter gun control mean?

Without specifics, it's a useless question.

You might as well ask should we reduce green house gas.

It's the methods and details that are resisted.

[Tejas]

29. "It's the methods and details that are resisted."

You hit it on the head with that. It's not exactly like antis are lining up to pay out of their own pocket for all of their "instant-fantasies-come-true".

[virginia mountainman]

24. LOL If that where so...

Why do Gun Control Advocates, CONSISTENTLY LOOSE elections??

[facepalm]

7. then for your next trick...

...please explain why they consistently vote as if they strongly oppose it?

[zanne]

10. Can you read a pie chart? nt

[facepalm]

12. can't you read plain english?

I asked you to explain VOTING trends not POLL RESPONSE trends.

If the American people are really represented by your poll, why do Clinton and Obama both work so hard to hide their anti-gun records? Why did Kerry go hunting? Why does Barack Obama say he supports the 2nd amendment?

Why do so few politicians in either party embrace your nonsensical agenda?

[zanne]

13. So now proof isn't good enough for you, right?

facepalm; I have a feeling you'd question anything I put forth about gun control if it didn't reflect your worldview. (I've been doing this for awhile).

[facepalm]

18. (I've been doing this for awhile)

facepalm; I have a feeling you'd question anything I put forth about gun control if it didn't reflect your worldview. (I've been doing this for awhile)

A fact that the republicans are certainly grateful for.

I question your statistics because they conflict with reality as we know it. If republicans who opposed the AWB had all been crushed in landslides in 1994 maybe your statement would be believable. However, the people who actually lost in 1994 were the Democrats who voted for the AWB.

[SteveM]

31. You are being disingenuous...

You have a feeling we'd question anything you would put forth about gun control. Perhaps it is due to your credibility on the subject; your extensive and frequent use of personal attacks; your faith that your view is "proof" or fact which you do not wish to discuss further. Your hectoring can only be explained by your animosity toward some enemy with a gun. It cannot be explained by your desire to change minds. You've taken the same approach time and time again, expecting different results. You know that won't happen.

Time to look at yourself.

BTW, what do you think of Hillary trying to appeal to gun owners with her ads criticizing Obama's stand?

[zanne]

14. Um...facepalm...I provided a link and a source for my statistics.

Where are yours?

[facepalm]

17. statistics?

There's no need to lie with statistics when your enemies are afraid to voice their opinions in public for fear of the offending the voters.

There's no need for statistical trickery when Bill Clinton admits on page 629 of his memoirs that:
"The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Brooks had supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master: one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage and could rightly claim to have made Gingrich the House Speaker."

What more statistics do you need than Bill Clinton saying "democrats embracing gun control made Newt Gingrich the house speaker." Isn't that enough proof?

[Tejas]

26. pretty stout post you got there

I tried to put myself in the antis shoes and couldn't even come up with a childish giggling schoolgirl response to it.


oh wait: OH, SO YOU ENDORSE NEWT HUH???1!!1???

:lol:

Well done.

[iverglas]

33. apparently you don't read well

Clinton ("admitting" nothing, by the way):

The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage and could rightly claim to have made Gingrich the House Speaker.

You:

Bill Clinton saying "democrats embracing gun control made Newt Gingrich the house speaker."

I'm seeing quotation marks there, but I'm not seeing the source.

I'm seeing you misrepresenting what Clinton said. Intentionally? Ignorantly? Who knows?

If you actually believe that "the gun lobby" / the NRA opposes Democrats because of gun control ... well, enjoy the delusion.

If you want to persuade anyone else that this is the case, you're going to have to work harder.

The right wing uses the abortion issue as a way to defeat its opponents. It uses the guns issue exactly the same way. And it cares about your Are Kay Bee Eh? about as much as it cares about any fetus. Not much. But its tactics work on quite a few pig-ignorant / pig-selfish people, all right.

[Tejas]

28. odd

(1) "61% want stricter gun control laws" vs (2) "64% think they're a waste of time"


(1) your point

(2) the chart you conveniently didn't link to that moots your point.

[Tejas]

8. um, Zanne, that poll is from 2000 (8 years ago)

Not that CNN matters, but do you think that after the fun and games we've seen so far from the Patriot Act and other antics in the past eight years, that Americans still feel the same?



I mean, {sarcasm ON} you're quoting an article that says:
"A majority of Americans continue to have a favorable impression of the National Rifle Association -- 51 percent, which is identical to the favorable rating the group received after Columbine last year."


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/04/12/poll.guns/index.html

[zanne]

9. The second one is an ABC poll from 2007. Ahem. nt

[Tejas]

15. surprise; antis consistently leave out "the rest of the story" (fixed for you Zanne!)

http://www.orspub.com/page41.html


You missed the other two, let me help;

1) "Ironically, Virginia Tech conducted a survey of Virginians in 2003 asking if they
thought handguns should be made illegal. Sixty percent said no, "

2) "Despite a general inclination (edit > 61%) to favor stricter gun control laws,
64% of Americans think stricter laws would have had little or no
effect in preventing incidents like the shootings at Virginia Tech."




;)

[zanne]

16. So what?

Other than your Virginia Tech "Gotcha", what do you have to support your claim that most Americans don't want stricter gun control? I'm talking about the country; after all, the November Election isn't about Virginia Tech, is it?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. To bad you didn't keep reading.

From your poll

Ironically, Virginia Tech conducted a survey of Virginians in 2003 asking if they
thought handguns should be made illegal. Sixty percent said no, that is the same
percentage ABC News found opposed to a ban on handguns in a nationwide poll
in April, 2007.

So the nation seemingly agrees with Virginia Tech. At least as of April 2007 according to your stats and polls. Thanks for posting the evidence to support our case. It may have been hard to find without you, don't worry though I've got it bookmarked now.

David

[Tejas]

25. you're ruining the antis fantasy

"So the nation seemingly agrees with Virginia Tech."

or: "Virginia Tech seemingly agrees with the nation."



Apparently VT is not the hotbed of erase-guns-from-the-earth activity that the antis first thought.



imagine that!

[Tejas]

27. maybe, just maybe because (from YOUR source)

of the 64% that believe gun control is a waste of time.


I'd put forth that maybe that 64% might think going after criminals instead of an inanimate object would make more sense.....but we've been over that here, and no efforts towards such by the antis appears to be on the horizon so...........





Antis seem to be more skeered of dealing with criminals than they are of grabbing guns from law-abiding citizens. Who'da thunk?

[jmg257]

21. Or not. Polls differ so much hard to tell what we think.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. Thoughts and Prayers to the victims and the families of the lost.

I hope the criminals that committed these acts are punished to the full extent of the law.


David

[jmg257]

22. Meanwhile...Nationwide, overall numbers still the same.

USA: all this year, approx. 99.98% of all gun owners will wake up, do whatever they do most days, and go to bed. No shootings to report

USA: this year approx. .009% of the population will use firearms to tragically cause a death, their own or of someone else's. This should NOT IN ANY WAY be used to try to justify the disabling of the secured rights of the other 99.991% of us.

Causes of Death 2005
Heart Disease: 652,091
MV accident 43,667
Gun related deaths: 30,100 (including 17,000 suicides)
Poisoning : 23,600