LOBBING FOR CHANGE: the DC Gun Ban

[virginia mountainman]

What will it take to get DC, to abide by the Bill of Rights?

It is shameful that our nations capital has such an inconceivable stance, and with this lawsuit, that they are bumbling worse than the three stooges could, they look like asses.

When the Supreme's finally over turn that wrong headed legislation, what will be the far reaching effects of that be?

Could this be the end of FEDERAL gun control??????

Could this be the death knell of out right gun bans in other "gun crime free" cities, like Chicago?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. What are they lobbing?

[Tejas]

34. They're lobbing vollies of follies

...thank you, thank you, don't forget to tip your...

[fightthegoodfightnow]

2. Could Care Less What You Think of DC

Until you give us the right to vote in the body that makes your laws.

You don't live here. You don't like DC.... please don't visit us.

[virginia mountainman]

3. I like DC...

Visit their a couple of times each year...

I have no problem with them having their vote count...And I WOULD support that...

But I am not interested in pressuring my congress critter, and senators, if they are unwilling to honor the US Bill of Rights..

You can't have you cake, and eat it too.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

5. Got It

Your support of rights are dependent on someone agreeing with you.

[virginia mountainman]

7. Nope, not with me...

With the US Constitution....

[fightthegoodfightnow]

9. Your Interpretation of the US Constitution

:)

[virginia mountainman]

11. Not just me...

The vast majority of Americans AGREE with me.

We can't have a "rogue" district, thinking they know better....when their experiment has been a total failure...measured in the blood of its undefended residents.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

13. Oh..........So the Bill of Rights is about the

......... 'vast majority of Americans.'

Yawn.

[virginia mountainman]

16. Nope...

The vast majority AGREE with it.

It is the small lying group, being lead by repukes, that are causing most of the problems.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

18. Well........if Give So Much Weight to the Majority

The majority in DC agree with DC law.

[virginia mountainman]

21. Be careful with that logic..

Do you want to put Abortion up for a vote in Utah??

How about several other, Midwestern states???

If YOU use that logic, don't be surprised when it is used AGAINST YOU about something YOU care about.

As I said, You can't have your cake and eat it too...

With the Bill of Rights, it is all or NOTHING.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

23. I Believe You Were the One Claiming to Speak for the Majority

LOL.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

25. 'With the Bill of Rights, it is all or NOTHING' - LAUGHING SO HARD IT HURTS

I'll leave you to argue that the right to free speech means you can yell fire in a theater when there is no fire.
I'll leave you to argue that the right to freedom of religion means you can have a human sacrifice.
I'll leave you to argue that the right to a free press means they cannot be taxed as corporations.

All or nothing?

Give me a break.

[virginia mountainman]

28. I guess debating with you is pointless..

Since your a DC resident, and cannot have any political impact on the discussion whatsoever.



Good day to you...

[fightthegoodfightnow]

31. All or Nothing

Indeed.

Bye.

[Tejas]

37. typical, go as far out of context as possible

[fightthegoodfightnow]

38. Typical......... What Part of His Claim that the Bill of Rights is

..........'all or nothing' was 'out of context'?

Too bad you didn't or can't acknowledge the examples I sited that dispel his claim the "Bill of Rights" is absolute.

A bad interpretation of the Second Amendment doesn't make it absolute.

[Jackeen]

41. Athough your point is factually correct, it misses the mark.

The first two examples have and immediate and direct effect upon third parties and restricts their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. You could argue that the restrictions on free speech and religion in those examples are justified as a result of their direct negative consequences to others. If I were to go buy another pistol and bring it home, this has absolutely no effect upon anyone else. As a result, I do not believe that this act should be prohibited in the same manner as D.C. had enforced.

The last example is a bit of a mis-statement. Freedom of the Press means that the media are free to disseminate and publish whatever they want and achieve circulation. It does not mean that they're allowed to make money off it and not get taxed. If the San Francisco Chronicle turned into a Not-for-profit and distributed their information purely for the education of the public, I'd wager they wouldn't suffer corporation tax either.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

4. Just give me a gun to make everything better, yeh, right.

[virginia mountainman]

6. Nope, but at least you would have the option..

If your life, or family was in danger....unlike the residents of DC.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

8. Danger?

Oh ........ that's rich of you to presume to know better than DC citizens what dangers we face.

[virginia mountainman]

10. I know that...

DC residents options are highly limited to defence...

Makes them easy victims for the dregs of society.

and the dregs know it.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

12. You Don't Know Jack

...... about the effects of guns in DC.

[virginia mountainman]

14. Actually, I do...

And I know him WELL....

I know that just across the river, here in Virginia, it is DAMN PEACEFUL.

On a still night, you can hear the gunfire all the way across the Potomac River.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

17. You Don't Know Jack

Virginia is damn peaceful? LOL.

[virginia mountainman]

20. Yep, just look at the crime rates....

It is FACT. UNDISPUTED...FACT..


I have been lobbing MY, congress critter, AND my senator, to deal with this aberration... I have actually received letters from them, assuring me, that when it comes up for a vote, that it will be dealt with, in the PROPER way.

Have YOU, been lobbing YOUR congress critter, and senator?

Have you received any response from them?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

22. Sooo Much Wrong with Your Post

I'll leave you to characterize Virginia as "peaceful'. Anyone who has lived in downtown Richmond in the last quarter of a century knows otherwise. Heck....... forget downtown Richmond. Try Northern Virginia or heck, even the drug lords in your Appalachian mountains that make Afghanistan look 'peaceful.' Virginia as peaceful. LOL. But alas........... ultimately, Virginia can and should govern itself and I would ask that you allow us the same right.

I'm happy that you lobby YOUR Congress, but until it gives DC residents voting representation it is just that: YOUR Congress.

[Hangingon]

26. Lets cede the residential sections of DC to Maryland

Leave the governemental areas as a Federal district. That takes care of the votes issue.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

30. Maryland Doesn't Want DC

.........They have repeatedly declined any attempt to merge.

[virginia mountainman]

32. I don't blame them...

One hell of a crime wave going one over their.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

33. Too Bad We Can't Be Left Alone to Govern Ourselves

Novel idea.

I just love how DC gets lectured by people who don't live here about how they know better than the citizens here on how we should govern ourselves. It just never dawned to them that the solution to gun violence might include something other than increasing the number of guns.

[Hangingon]

43. I believe you do have home rule.

Your self governance is what brought you before the SCOTUS. You violate the constitutional rights of your citizens. As to being lectured, you don't seem shy about telling other what they should do. Yes we have guns in Texas. It is our right and the state legislature has recognized it. To the disappointment of a few, the new "castle doctrine" has not resulted in wholesale gunfights - just people protecting themselves and their property. It has not displaced the death penalty and it was not intended to replace it. The death sentences are decided by juries and judges using guidelines provided by the state legislature - the representatives of the people.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

47. Self Government

I could care less what Texas decides regarding guns. I think it's amusing that you have to go thousands of miles to demand that the citizens of DC agree with Texas. The right to keep and bear arms certainly hasn't reduced the need for the death penalty in Texas.

As for your claim we have 'self government', consider this: For a law to pass DC, it has to pass our City Council, our Mayor, withstand a referendum threat, allow to be passed by both Houses of Congress (meaning ANY one member of Congress can hold the legislation up with amendments or in committee and who by the way we have no voting representation in) and have the approval of the President of the United States. Talk about a ridiculous way to govern.

And while we are taxed without representation and our young men and women serve and die in your wars, we have no voting representation in your government. For us to 'violate the constitutional rights' of OUR citizens, you'd have to first acknowledge that we have NO rights in DC other than the ones some other government, which we have no participation in, gives us.

[Hangingon]

48. I don't "demand" that the residents of DC agree with Texas.

You raised Texas in your earlier response. I do "demand" that DC agree with the Constitution. As to your assertion that you have no rights, it appears that someone is tryimg to ensure that the citizens of DC do have rihts.

As to your non-voting. You do have Ms. Norton in Congress. At http://www.dcboee.org/nws/news_frame.asp?filename=pn_131.pdf&mid=9&yid=2007&type=News%20Releases&hl=t. Board of Elections and Ethics for the District of Columbia, you can find information of registering to vote for Council, Representative, and President.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

49. Are You for Real?

Ms. Norton doesn't have the right to vote.

In case you are not aware of it, ONE member of Congress can over write or entangle any law we enact in committee making your claims we have equal representation amusing. Imagine if one member of our city council could prevent ANY law from being enacted in Texas.

Not only that, 96.5% of our revenue comes from our own taxes, but we are not permitted to determine how those taxes are spent without the approval of your President and your Congress. The other 3.5% is from Congress to pay for fire and public safety services related to the federal government. I have no problem with them restricting that money, but not the money we raise.

In addition, DC residents pay federal taxes unlike US citizens in US territories like Guam, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands.

[Tejas]

54. "Ban guns, but give me representation"

Ban guns and you'll be lucky to have the only key to your front door, much less a voice in your taxation vs representation problem.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

56. Obviously.......

....you have not lived in DC the last 25 years.

I have a key to my front door.

[Tejas]

60. were your dreams to come true, you won't need one in the future

[Hangingon]

67. I realize that Ms. Norton has no vote.

Since you have a reading problem, let me clearly state that I did not claim that you had equal representation. I merely pointed out that you were not without some basic representation. As for the money, I'm not current on the what the District receives. I used to wonder where all the money for the Metro system came from. I suspect the District gets or used to get a lot from the Congress. I am sure you will say I am wrong. Please don't bother to correct me.

I have been around DU long enough to understand that it is pointless to correspond to someone with an empty profile. So, I will opt out of your pity party. Please enjoy wallowing in your supposed victimization. I won't be listening to anymore of the poor me.

[Tejas]

53. No, it's so you'll quit mangling the Constitution

It's worth far more than 1,000 miles worth of effort to put an end to something that can (and has and would continue to) affect the whole country. But you wouldn't know anything about that because you're just peachy-keen in love with your gun laws.

You'd be well advised to try caring about once in a great while what other citizens in your area desire when it comes their rights, they would probably be more inclined to listen to your pleas for help with your interests.

[Tejas]

52. Well, being as you do such a lousy job

of lowering your crime rate by dealing with your social and economic problems, it should come as no surprise. And then for you to say you can and should be allowed to do it on your own.....30 years of "your way" doesn't look like it's added up to much except a higher murder rate than 25 years ago.

"Marion Barry" ring a bell?

DC, glass houses full of people with rose-colored glasses.

[Hangingon]

35. Well, I can't blame them.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

40. And We Don't Want Them

With all those guns in Texas, you'd think there would be no need for the death penalty there because gun ownership would reduce or eliminate the need for the death penalty.

[Tejas]

51. Don't you fret

we're working on that.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

58. Then Don't You Fret ........

....... about the crimes and laws of the District of Columbia.

[Tejas]

59. You wish that I would be as apathetic as you?

Nope, try again.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

63. Got It

You're here to save me.

Laughing so f*cking hard it hurts.

[SteveM]

69. You're no Jack Kennedy.

[Tejas]

36. Everybody knows Jack, he has a long moustache

You on the other hand (as usual) do not know jack.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

39. Typical Substance for You

Do you have anything to say about gun ownership in DC?

[Tejas]

42. You're more than welcome

to expand past drive-bys such as "you know nothing about DC" etc. Anything beyond copy-pastes would be nice too.

How about anything whatsoever to give one a clue as to why you feel the way you do about firearm ownership in DC? The snippets of "Guns bad/DC sucks" don't offer much meat, how about some background to your comments?

Even just going through the Appendix of the case, I'm pretty convinced that Parker, Heller, the rest have valid complaints. Besides personal emotions, is there something you're holding back that can shed light on this?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

45. Get Real

You write: 'How about anything whatsoever to give one a clue as to why you feel the way you do about firearm ownership in DC? The snippets of "Guns bad/DC sucks" don't offer much meat, how about some background to your comments?"

This from the person who gives us: 'You on the other hand (as usual) do not know jack.'

I live here: you don't.
The people of DC are entitled to self government.
Gun violence is rampant in this city and in my opinion, the solution is not more guns.
I and many people in DC have been victims of gun violence, including witnessing murderS (as in plural) and facing the barrel of a gun.
Gun fanatics on this board argue all this would change if I had and used a gun. What a crock of sh*t.

PS: I never said ANYWHERE that DC sucks. It's a great city where people care deeply and should have the right to decide how best to protect our homes and families.

[Tejas]

50. murders are fine, DC sucks because of taxes

"PS: I never said ANYWHERE that DC sucks. It's a great city where people care deeply and should have the right to decide how best to protect our homes and families."


Which is exactly why Parker has come as far as it has.....and it's not for you to haphazardly ignore the BOR at whim.

You hate your tax situation and scream to the high heavens about it but have the nerve to admonish your fellow DC citizen that hates other discrepencies concerning their rights?

There's a name for that, escapes me at the moment and probably violates COC here.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

57. My Fellow DC Citizens

........ not only enacted the current law in question, but there has never been an attempt by a single citizen to organize a repeal through a referendum.

The only people haphazardly ignoring Democratic principles are idiots who whine about the BOR being violated while ignoring the fact that hundreds of thousands of people are being denied the right to vote for a member of Congress.

[Tejas]

61. You might be lucky they don't know who you are

otherwise, your wreckless whims about their rights might have an unintended consequence. Their strong disagreement on your BOR statements might be the least of your worries.

"idiots who whine about the BOR being violated", as in those that have a one-track mind about taxation without representation?

Let's see, who does that remind me of..........?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

62. I'm Reminded about King George

......... not being happy with the amount of taxes he has raised in the colonies to send back home without once questioning whether or not he should tax them to begin with.

If you want me to recognize the legitimacy of your government, start by including the half million Americans in it before you send our sons and daughters to fight for democracy abroad.

[Tejas]

64. taxation whine # 53 (nothing to see)

[fightthegoodfightnow]

65. HISTORICAL REVISIONISM

The Boston Tea Party was nothing more than a bunch of whining ........

You really need to take a civics class.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

15. There are to many guns worldwide,

I live in an area with bears and mountain lions all around me and I'm not afraid, don't have a gun and don't need one, dog works real good.

[SteveM]

68. The right to defend one's self is not social policy bearing on "everything."

[fightthegoodfightnow]

19. DC is Not a State

"There is no dispute that the Constitution, case law and applicable statutes all establish that the District is not a State within the meaning of the Second Amendment. Under United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. at 178, the Second Amendment's declaration and guarantee that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" relates to the Militia of the States only. That the Second Amendment does not apply to the District, then, is, to me, an unavoidable conclusion."

[virginia mountainman]

24. So... Your saying the

Since your not a state, the Bill of Rights, do NOT apply??

Hmmm...

Be careful what you wish for.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

27. WOW........

I'll go even further.

NONE OF OUR LAWS APPLY TO US BECAUSE WE HAVE NO VOTING REPRESENTATION IN YOUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT CAN THROW OUT ANY OF OUR LAWS.

We are already denied our civil and voting rights.

Get a clue.

[virginia mountainman]

29. I guess denying a few more wont matter..NT

[Tejas]

55. even wants to deny himself the RKBA, go figure n/t

[slackmaster]

44. Have you read Section 49-401 of the District of Columbia Code by any chance, FTGFN?

It's actually quite humorous in teh context of the current misadministration:

§ 49-401. Militia; persons to be enrolled .

Every able-bodied male citizen resident within the District of Columbia, of the age of 18 years and under the age of 45 years, excepting persons exempted by § 49-402, and idiots, lunatics, common drunkards, vagabonds, paupers, and persons convicted of any infamous crime, shall be enrolled in the militia. Persons so convicted after enrollment shall forthwith be disenrolled; and in all cases of doubt respecting the age of a person enrolled, the burden of proof shall be upon him.

[hansberrym]

46. Is the US not "a free state" ? n/t

[Tejas]

66. Chicago

Hopefully the results will be usable to combat some of the silliness there and the rest of Illinois. FIOD just to buy a box of ammo?

Call me spoiled, no matter how I try I just cannot comprehend that.