After Saddam The Middle East has changed for the better

[Soul On Ice]

A year ago many diplomats and strategic analysts gave noisy warnings that a military attack on Iraq would provoke anti-Western riots across the Muslim world, destabilise moderate Arab rulers and be the starting-point of a cataclysm. A year later, the Middle East has changed in a way utterly unexpected by the pessimists.

Those countries most viscerally hostile to the West, Iran and Libya, have just signed long-term agreements to open up their nuclear programmes to international inspection and, in Libya’s case, to dismantle all weapons of mass destruction. In Sudan, a 20-year civil war that has killed two million people and made four million homeless is close to final resolution, with the unprecedented signing of an oil-sharing agreement between the Muslim North and the Christian South. Democracy movements are asserting themselves from Morocco to the Gulf. And even Syria, whose blinkered intransigence has set it firmly apart from the new mood in the Middle East, has belatedly realised the need to soften its tough posture: the Syrians arrested and returned to Turkey the suspects in the Istanbul bombings, President Assad has just made the first state visit to Turkey since Syria became independent in 1946, and Damascus has offered to restart peace talks with Israel.

snip

Nevertheless, the coalition’s swift victory against Saddam Hussein, and, more recently, the circumstances of his capture — a humiliating disillusion for nationalists and extremists around the Arab world — has been the single biggest factor in convincing the old guard that it has to change. Muammar Gaddafi, now quixotically the region’s longest-serving leader, has been trying for years to change his image in the West without changing the malign policies that underpin it.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,1-956657,00.html

[judge_smales]

1. As propiganda goes I guess it's OK

but it doesn't reflect mush of the realities of the ME.

Do you really belive this?

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. They left out the part about simple child-like people who need a firm

hand, and although they may whine, they secretly respect you for it.

[bemildred]

9. Drool.

Not very subtle either.

[Soul On Ice]

6. Some of my Kurdish friends

were in fact thrilled, but I guess they don't count.

I'm personally happy for them...their families had many members gassed by Saddam!

[PoofTheNinjaMog]

2. I don't think so

If you ask me, The Arab world is totally not better without Saddam. Think about it. Israel is still pushing around the Palestinians and Bush is letting Sharon do it. There probably are no good hospitals over there for the Arabian population. They still live in filth. I thought America was supposed to bring all this over when we overthrew a government over there? And what has Bush done for the Arabian population. Nothing! Just given his buddies some sweet contracts, that's all.

[Soul On Ice]

7. You are so right!

Even though many Arab states weren't too happy with Saddam (mostly because he didn't go along with the same type of Islam), I agree the Arab world is totally not better without Saddam!

Oh, but there are good hospitals. Ones that the Arab leaders don't trust for themselves, however, present no problem. They simply come to the Cleveland Clinic or Stanford; no problem at all. But of course that wouldn't be true for Saddam because, for some reason, he is one of the few Arab leaders who hasn't availed himself of U.S. medical expertise.

For examples of the fine treatment (remember the twins?) received by Arabs in Israel, I suggest you PM drdon326; a doctor who is quite familiar with the subject.

Thanks!

[forgethell]

8. The Arab world has been

messed up for a long time. Even if * WERE God, and even if his INTENTIONS were good, it would take a lot longer than our troops have been over there to do much good for the people. Don't you think?

[Harrison82]

11. Really?

While it appears that the Bush admin did indeed mislead the nation into war I find it hard to believe anyone is not glad Saddam is gone.
Anyone with any human decency should be thrilled that after decades of propping up dictators the US has finally brought one down. Yes, the neocon's decided long before Sept. 11 that we should invade Iraq in order to establish (or attempt to) an Islamic democracy. This is the real reason for the war, so misguided or not, don't feed me the cynical "Bush justs wants money for his friends" line. I can't help but wonder whatever happened to the liberals standing for human rights. Saddam was a murdering, torturing tyrant, and if the neocons wanted him overthrown so they could set up a pet democracy, the left should have wanted him overthrown for the terrors he inficted on his people. Was the war justified? Not by WMD, that much is evident. On humantarian grounds, absolutely.

"But just look at all the US and Iraqi civilian casualties Bush is responsible for!"

I am aware of that. I have been to Iraq with a reserve Marine unit and seen the botched occupation. Yet the situation is not as bad as it is sometimes portrayed. Ten years from now I doubt you will find anyone who will in hindsight wish the Iraqis were back under Saddam's yoke.

From a USA Today article

An Iraqi soldier, who according to the facility's records witnessed the beatings, said interrogators regularly used pliers to remove men's teeth, electric prods to shock men's genitals and drills to cut holes in their ankles.

"I have seen interrogators break the heads of men with baseball bats, pour salt into wounds and rape wives in front of their husbands," said former Iraqi soldier Ali Iyad Kareen, 41.

He then revealed dozens of Polaroid pictures of beaten and dead Iraqis from the directorate's files.

[bemildred]

12. Welcome to DU, Harrison82.

Let's hope you have it right.

[The Democrats Cometh]

13. I certainly hope so!

I know my candidate stands for that!

[jamesinca]

15. Why did this become a moral imperative in '03

Why was nothing done back in '88 when he did the gassing? Why have we not gone after the Saudis? Why have we not gone after China on human rights violations? I am not saying that Hussein was a saint, I am asking why there is such inconsistent actions on behalf of the government? Mostly if this is such an important issue, to save the world from itself, why then did the war have to be sold on lies and not on its virtues? I am not attacking you, I merely want answers from this administration and all they are doing is lying about it more and more. The perpetual lies by the administration makes me think that this war is really about greed, blood lust and oil. You make the statement that 10 years from now, in hindsight, there will be no Iraqis that want to live under the yoke of Hussein. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[DUmbrella]

18. Out of the entire arab world you single out an area the size of NJ?

Why do people single out Israel all the time in statements like these? The Arab world is GIGANTIC. Most of the oppressed people are being oppressed by other ARABS. HWhy don't we focus on those areas instead?

Also, you're talking about bringing over hospitals, etc already. We haven't even been there a year and there still isn't stability. It took us 7 years to rebuild Japan and we get frustrated after 10 months. This will take time.

The war was unjustified for WMD reasons, but fully justified for scores of others.

Just my .02.

[lovedems]

4. Madeline Albright would disagree

I saw her on TV last night and she thinks that while Saddam was bad and the world is safer without him, the US has made the region unstable and AMERICA is not safer. We are feared not only by our enemies, but by our friends as well. Her best point was that because we are so feared, we are not going to get the best possible assistance from the global community to fight the war on terror (citing the international flights as an example) Her thought was that a regime change should have come from the Iraqi's with the assistance of the international commumity. The jury is still out regarding the future stability of Iraq. She is also worried about the threat of future attacks and strongly feels there other options that must be exercised rather then military force. She reaffirmed my belief that Clinton was successfully fighting the war on terror without without scaring the shit out of the american people in the process. She is quite a brilliant lady and our country was far better when she held a diplomatic seat.

[Soul On Ice]

5. Yes and Dean certainly disagrees!

n/t

[are_we_united_yet]

10. I can't help feeling

articles like this in some way attempt justify an illegal, unnecessary and unjust war.

[LARED]

14. Its to early to tell if the middle east has

changed for the better or worse, but Iraq sure as hell has improved. This does not justify the war, but facts are facts, Saddam was a brutal sadistic dictator and the world is better off without him terrorizing and brutalizing the Iraqi people.

[Ottmar]

16. If it has changed for the better

why is Israel building a wall?

[Jim Sagle]

17. Actually I don't think it HAS changed for the better.

But thanks to the Peace Fence, it WILL be changing for the better.

The Peace Fence...making the world a better place, one brick at a time.