GE dredging plans for the Hudson upset some upstate (NY) residents . . .

[OneBlueSky]

by Jorge FitZ-Gibbon and Greg Clary
The Journal News
Sunday, June 4, 2006

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060604/NEWS02/606040350/-1/WEBHEAD01

FORT EDWARD, N.Y. . . The little red house has been home to John and Hazel Thompson since they can remember — Hazel was born there and John moved in after serving in World War II. The Champlain Canal has always flowed sleepily through their backyard, and beyond it lie acres of cornfields and woodlands sloping gently away from the far bank.

Not for long.

The General Electric Co. will build a 110-acre industrial city behind the Thompson house for the largest dredging project in U.S. history to remove toxic PCBs that flow down to the Lower Hudson Valley.

"I'm not anxious for it," said John Thompson, 89, a retired country store proprietor. "I know we're going to get a lot of noise out of it. As it is now, if there's a Dumpster truck parked over on the side of the road across the canal, you can hear them over there."

- more . . .

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060604/NEWS02/606040350/-1/WEBHEAD01

[Massacure]

1. What are we supposed to do, let the PCBs sit there?

[Botany]

2. Have to get the PCB

Jack Welch and G.E. fought this for years.

Why don't we dump the waste material @ one of Jack's homes.

[Lefty48197]

3. Dredging is always scary

Even if it's to clean up an existing toxic mess, the fact remains that the dredging stirs up toxins that wouldn't have been stirred up otherwise. The possibility exists that the toxins that have been released will flow downstream poisoning fish and other wildlife. I'm not saying I oppose this clean-up, but if it's not done with extreme caution, then it could end up causing more problems than it solves.

[NNadir]

4. Your concerns are valid.

I am of two minds about this problem, which has no perfect solution.

For the first time in many years, the Bass in the Hudson have PCB levels that are considered "safe." Dredging may well change this. One might also ask where exactly do the people who dredge the river intend to dispose of the contaminated silt.

I believe, but am not certain, that certain organisms have significant dehalogenating ability for PCB's. I think that avenue of research should be pursued more actively before making a decision.

Note that the PCB problem is national. There are still a vast number of transformers out there which still contain PCB's. Generally transformers last a very long time; they have no moving parts and only wear out in fires and from long term corrosion. However when they do fail, there is a PCB contamination issue.

PCB's have been replaced in newer transformers. One replacement is sulfur hexafluoride, which is an inert gas. Unfortunately, sulfur hexafluoride is also one of the most potent greenhouse gases known. For practical purposes, it's atmospheric lifetime may as well be infinite.

[Massacure]

5. PCBs are used in transformers?

Here in Wisconsin it seems like the government and the paper companies are always fighting about the issue of PCBs. I had no clue they had use in electrical infrastructure as well.

[NNadir]

6. Yes. Almost all transformers manufactured between 1920 and the late

1970's had significant amounts of PCB's as the dielectric fluid.

Many of these are still in service. In some places, such as tall buildings, the transformers are completely unaccessible. They were designed to never be replaced.

There has been a huge effort in some places to replace them. The matter is covered by international treaty, the Stockholm Convention.

This is another one of those deals where our generation shifts responsibility on your generation, since we are too high on ourselves, too stoned, too fucked up to face any unpleasantries, or as Mr. Gore would put it, "Inconvenient Truths." PCB containing transformers are allowed to operate until 2025. Probably many will continue to operate much longer. As you know from your long time participation in discussions on this site (which I appreciate) our generation thinks if we say "by 2050," or "by 2025," we have solved the problem. Many of us have been to business school, earned MBA's and have participated in touchy-feely performance seminars and have come to the conclusion that if we merely set goals, it is the same as accomplishing something. Therefore if we set goals, we can go off and play golf.

Whatever we've asked you to do by 2050, you'll figure it out for sure or you'll die. That's not our problem.

(I'm sorry for that tirade of bitterness, but I cannot help myself.)

Note the replacement of PCB's will involve decreases in electrical efficiency of voltage reduction. Like everything else, there is a trade off involving combinatorial optimization to minimize risk.

PCB's were also used widely in the capacitor industry and undoubtedly present in many devices such as television sets, radios, stereos and so on. Fortunately we have been able to convince Chinese people and Indian people to disassemble these devices, so any moral qualms should not interfere with our tee times, since we live by the credo, "out of sight, out of mind."