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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 06:21 PM
Original message
Today Marks 50 Years Since Hubbert Predicted US Production Peak
Today marks the fifty year anniversary of M. King Hubbert’s seminal speech in which he accurately forecasted the 1970 peak of United States oil production. Few heeded Hubbert’s warning at the time and many - notably including high ranking officials the United States Geological Survey and industry - actively sought to discredit his work. The lack of preparation on the government’s part set the United States up for the oil shocks of the 1970’s and egregious dependence on foreign oil that we experience today.

Hubbert (1903-1989), a distinguished geophysicist, first developed his peak oil theory in the middle 1930s. He first advanced these ideas at the 1948 American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) convention. Hubbert was "swamped with mail, universally favorable" after the 1948 speech was printed a year later. But it was hardly noticed by the petroleum industry even though it was little different from the 1956 version that caused uproar. Hubbert could be more specific in his 1956 analysis because of additional data and he predicted US crude production would peak in 10-15 years. This conclusion, which was almost universally considered outrageous at the time, proved startlingly accurate.

In honor of M. King Hubbert’s courageous stand, Post Carbon Institute is hosting an online tribute featuring interviews with contemporaries and successors of Hubbert. The tribute provides a rare glimpse into the life and times of M. King Hubbert, the grandfather of the peak oil movement. The tribute features interviews with his nephew Michael Hubbert and former Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall. The tribute includes Hubbert’s Successors I, the first of series of compilations of brief audio commentaries. Hubbert’s Successors I features Roscoe Bartlett, Richard Heinberg, Albert Bartlett, Megan Quinn, Pat Murphy, Walter Youngquist, Ron Swenson, Kenneth Deffeyes, Matthew Simmons, Stewart Udall, Jan Lundberg, Colin Campbell and Steve Andrews. "There is not other single name so connected with energy and oil as M. King Hubbert," says U.S. Congressman Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD). "His pioneering work has been quoted by just about everyone who is interested in the subject. His influence cannot be overestimated. He was a giant."

The tribute also includes a Hubbert bibliography, a narrative of the events surrounding the speech and other milestones in Hubbert’s life, and previously unavailable images. The tribute will be updated regularly for at least the next year. Features to be posted soon include an interview with Hubbert historian and interviewer Ronald Doel and previously unavailable video footage of a conversation with Hubbert, as well as Hubbert’s Successors II compilation.

EDIT

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=11265&url=
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
1.  The Olduvai Theory of Industrial Civilization
Figure 1. The Olduvai Theory of Industrial Civilization



Figure 1 divides the very long span of human history into three phases: (1) PreIndustrial, (2) Industrial, and (3) Post-Industrial. Seven events are marked on the left part of the curve (i.e., points A through G). Likewise, five hypothetical events are marked on the future part of the curve (i.e., H through L).


Phase 1, the Pre-Industrial Phase, spans thousands of millennia of sustainable conditions when society was powered exclusively by (renewable) solar energy. It began some three million years ago when our hominid ancestors started making simple tools (point A, Figure 1). The tools, in turn, made possible greater energy-use in such forms as food, fiber and shelter. Epic milestones leisurely passed, including the use of fire at about one million BCE and the Neolithic Agricultural Revolution at about 8,000 BCE. The end of the Pre-Industrial Phase is marked at 1765, the year James Watt invented the condensing steam engine (point D, Figure 1).

Phase 1 was followed by a transition period—i.e., The Industrial Revolution— delimited by the years 1765 and 1930 (points D and E, Figure 1).


Phase 2, the Industrial Phase, comprises the shaded portion of Figure 1. The life expectancy of Industrial Civilization is defined as the duration in years (x) between the leading and lagging "37% points" (i.e., points E and H). It is a short, extravagant period when transportation, commerce and industry were powered predominantly by (nonrenewable) fossil-fuels. Historic data (presented later) quantifies the peak period of the curve: i.e., the years between points E and G. Using that data, I mark the beginning of the Industrial Phase at 1930 (point E), the year average energy-use per person reached 37% of its peak value.

Note that the peak of Industrial Civilization was reached in about 1977 (point F), less than fifty years after it began. More significant, Figure 1 identifies the global energy "watershed". For the first time in the gaping millennia of human existence, average per capita energy-use peaked and began to decline!

As I read it, the descent into the Olduvai valley will be steep and swift. A scenario of Phase 3, the Post-Industrial Phase, is sketched in Figure 1 (i.e., from point I onward) wherein Industrial Civilization has disintegrated into farming villages, kinship tribes and rogue bands. The surviving population will have "achieved" permanent sustainability—at the subsistence level.

http://dieoff.org/page125.htm
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So Einstein was right for the wrong reason?
World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The descent will be steep only if helped along
by war and/or pandemic, both of which seem to be distinct possibilities within the next ten years.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. What BS, Peak oil does not mean peak energy.
Edited on Thu Mar-09-06 08:06 PM by Odin2005
We have plenty of coal and uranium and an endless supply of renewables, and fusion will eventually make energy generation from coal and uranium obsolete. Peak oil is a liquid fuel problem, not an energy problem. Peak oil will just force us to engineer human settlement in a way that minimizes sprawl (and therefore minimize the need for personal vehicles with an internal combustion engine) enough so there is enough biofuel and hydrogen for mechanized farming and intercontinental transport. The people who think peak oil is going to cause industrial society collapse are crazy.
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The growth economy
operates as does the cancer cell. "Growth for growth's sake, endless energy."

The Green economy is a form of denial of how deeply systemic our problems are.
Our infrastructure is oil (petrol) based as is every organizing and production mechanisms of our economy. All else has been cannabilized.

Hydrogen is a net energy loser and is in fact codespeak for nuclear.

There is no such thing as an "endless supply" that manner of thinking is what brought us to this precipice.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I post at a peak oil forum, I know all the doomer arguments.
...they make no sense and oftern fall for circular reasoning. Saying we can't transition away from an petroleum based society is an insult to human ingenuity and shows a lack of thinking outside the box. Humanity is acting like a cancer because enviromentally damaging energy sources are being used and because of overpopulation. An industrial society based on fusion, renewables, and biofuel with a world population of 500 million would hardly be damaging to the enviroment the same way humanity is now, which is the whole point of the Green economy. Your statement on hydrogen makes no sense, it has nothing to do with nuclear; the fact that it has a negetive energy ROI isn't relavent, it's purpose is to act as a way to "store" energy made by power stations in a way that can be used in vehicles, not as an actual energy source.
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hydrogen today is a dirty fuel
Hydrogen today is a dirty fuel

There is a mature hydrogen production industry in place today, and it's big business. Hydrogen is produced, stored and transported on a commercial scale today. Virtually all this hydrogen is made by steam reforming natural gas or other fossil-fuel-derivatives. The carbon that is left over from breaking the hydrogen out of these hydrocarbons is typically just released to the atmosphere, where it typically bonds with oxygen to make carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. In addition, additional fossil fuels are typically burned to generate the heat required for the process, creating the regular witches' brew of pollutants, toxins and carcinogens normally produced by burning petroleum products. Some starry-eyed environmentalists believe the future of hydrogen production will be based on sustainable energy sources, and point to small production facilities as proof. However, sustainable energy sources make up a small fraction of energy production in North America, so there is no surplus to be used for hydrogen production.For example, the Canadian Association for Renewable Energy argues in favour of renewable sources for hydrogen production, but even they acknowledge that hydrogen today is a dirty fuel, and a lot of work will be required to correct this.The reality is that for the foreseeable future any significant increases in hydrogen production in North America will be powered by one of the following.

1) Natural gas; either by steam reforming (most likely) or producing electricity for electrolysis (less likely). However, as natural gas shortages loom in North America, it may be more important to use this fuel for electrical generation (growing demand) and residential use (space heating, water heating, cooking, clothes dryers).
2) Coal; either by production of coal gas and refining it to get hydrogen, or producing electricity for electrolysis.
3) Oil. Older plants, now mothballed, could be put back into production quickly to meet increased electrical demand to support electrolysis.
4) Nuclear. High availability source for electricity production with low fuel costs, and the heated water (from cooling the reactor) could be used as the feedstock for the electrolysis process). However, permanent storage of nuclear waste has still not been fully resolved or implemented anywhere on the planet; more than 40 years after spent fuel waste started being produced. No new nuclear plants have been ordered in North America since the 1970's. (This may be about to change given massive incentives from governments in the United States and Ontario.)

The cycle efficiency of hydrogen production is poor

Making hydrogen and using it is a complex and multi-step process - with energy losses at every step. While it is possible to make hydrogen from renewable and sustainable sources, it is simply a bad idea relative to other options such as using the produced energy directly (e.g., as electricity) while powering transportation by other means (human powered vehicles, biofuels, electric vehicles, biofuel-electric hybrids).

http://www.econogics.com/en/heconomy.htm

Look at the MIT study at this link. Humanism is a stubborn philosophy. Seems we always seek the technological solution to the techno-problem and on and on and on.....
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lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. i don't think there is a question of whether or not we can find and
implement new energy technologies, it just a matter of timing. currently, we NEED oil to do just about anything. we need it for food, we need it for transportation, we need it for building infrastructure. if we wait to the point where there is not enough "cheap" oil to go around, how are we going to develop, build and support new equipment and infrastructure needed to transition from oil. better yet, how will we pay for the remaining "cheap" oil or the other "dirty" forms once demand outstrips supply.

if we fail to recognize this or even discuss it as a real possibility, it *could* lead to a failure to transition before it becomes monetarily or even physically impossible.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Speaking of watering the Liberty Tree ...
... this is exactly what most of us mean.

There's plenty of energy. But there are also plenty of problems in its development and exploitation. And if we can't do it fast enough, a lot of people are going to die. The "Liberty Tree", as the metaphor in your sig quote is often called, will be watered bountifully. But not in the cause of Liberty, but because of lack of planning. Lack of foresight. Stupidity.

How fast can we replace half of our petroleum use with coal, let alone the relatively inefficient version of nuclear fission we now use? Because once we fall off the Oil Plateau (a.k.a. "Peak Oil"), we'll be facing a decline in excess of 5% per year. But don't forget, we also have an historical 2-3% increase in total energy demand each year. That's a potentially 8% per year shortfall until our economy starts to collapse, which is likely to happen quickly. A 5% yearly shortfall will take us to the half-way point in 14 years; at 8%, it's nine years; and if the fall-off is very rapid (due to abuse of water-injection technology for recovering oil), a 10% per year drop-off leaves us at 50% in seven years. And the loss of oil-based energy could happen more quickly than that. The world's oil allowance would shrink back half a century in a decade -- but the population will be between 6.5 and 8 billion when this happens, not the 3 billion of 1960.

We'll still have plenty of oil, but it will just become increasingly difficult to recover. We'll have to get cracking building those coal plants and nuclear reactors, but the economy will be hosed. How, then, will we recruit and pay the labor force we need?

Most of us here, even the anti-nuclear faction, are well-educated about the dynamics of the situation. We are facing a shortfall that will hit us so quickly that it could easily cause rapid economic disintegration, political chaos, and mass death if agriculture takes a severe hit. That's a threat, but not a promise. The promise is that we'll scream bloody murder before that day arrives. We are doing it now.

On the other hand, we have no interest in being proven "right". We modern Cassandras have been warning about this era since the 1970s; Hubbert from the late 1950s until the month he died. In the past half-decade or so, we've been pretty successful, and it took no additional doom-crying to make the case. In 1998, both the Ghawar and the Cantrell oil fields seemed bottomless; today, each are producing only due to water injection, and the water cut is far outpacing the recovered oil. This practice could easily render the fields useless, leaving the remaining oil out of reach, deep under layers of brine and lighter oil fractions.

As late as 2002, Iraq was "known" to be sitting on 300 million to 3 billion barrels of oil -- today, 100 million is the wildly optimistic max. And precious little of that is flowing at all due to the evolving civil war in Iraq. For a few years, so-called "abiotic" oil seemed to be the miraculous fix, but the (valuable) work of the abioticists has been shown to have been twisted and abused for political cover.

So, yes, the idea is to scare the decision-makers into action, if that's what it takes -- and the "crazy" predictions of Heinberg and Deffeyes and Laherrere et al. don't seem so wild any more. Small changes in supply and demand now drive price changes of over 50% in natural gas and oil markets, just as predicted. It is quite likely that oil is going to cost $100/bbl within the next year or two -- perhaps as soon as this autumn, given another harsh hurricane season and/or continued incompetence on the part of the Bush administration.

Yes, even scaring them to the point of convincing them that industrial civilization could collapse. It's not crazy; it's precautionary, and if we do nothing, it will happen. The stakes are high enough to justify a little paranoia. We should have started developing large-scale renewable energy technology, AND high-reliability, decreased-risk nuclear reactors, back in the 1970s; instead, in 1980, we elected a dolt who had more sarcastic quips than functioning brain cells, who derailed what modest progress had been made.

Given the usual inertia of the business and governmental communities, they would prefer to deal with this along a leisurely time line; spend several years crafting the financial instruments and engineering the tax structure, then slowly replacing infrastructure at about 5% per annum in an easily-controlled, amortizable, tax-favored sequence, monetizing 30-year notes, and making sure the thousands of corporations set up to siphon the money into the pockets of the Favored are well-protected. But we don't have that kind of time. BP seems to be the only big company aware of the problem, which is an amazing turn-around for BP, and which we can't expect to happen with the other companies until the price of oil is so high that it chokes off its own demand.

Worst of all, the oil reserve data reports have been "massaged" for nearly two decades now, usually to "prove" more recoverable reserves than there really were. Are we at Peak Oil, a few years away from it, on a plateau (as I personally believe we are), or already on the way down? With accurate accounting a thing of the quaint past, we don't know, we can't know, and we won't know.

When the drop-off happens, it will be fast, painful, and destructive.

You write as if the required changes will happen easily and naturally. Well, with enough time, they would. But we don't have "enough time" any more. Now, we have to move quickly, especially since we don't know exactly how much oil we can depend on and for how long. If we wait until the economy is a smoking ruin, we won't be able to marshall the resources make those changes at all without some significant fascism -- and if we wait until we don't have enough food for our people, civilization will only remain as isolated city-states.

The "worst-case scenario" is pretty bad. Imagine the Nazi Holocaust and its effect on the Jews of Europe -- then multiply that by 1000. That's six gigadeaths. That would happen within a generation of the cessation of all large-scale agriculture.

But I am an optimist. I am sure we can avoid this, but our leaders are frighteningly lacking in motivation. So, talk of gigadeaths and the collapse of industrial society and the loss of human civilization are perfectly rational. If we had stayed on track, we would be facing a period of mild austerity and some modest government-initiative public works projects. As it is, the belt's going to need several new notches on the narrow side, and we may have several decades of a new kind of corporate socialism to muddle through.

We're crazy, Odin, all of us -- crazy like foxes. We want to survive, and if the inertia of our leaders prevails, we won't. Let the arrogant conservatives of the next generation call us liars; survival will be worth it.

We avoided World War Three and survived to watch Terminator movies; the Queer community rallied and reversed the growth of AIDS; I believe we'll survive the coming transitional era as if we hit a speed bump, not a drop off a cliff. (And incidentally, both world war and AIDS remain threats, if less imminent, so this is no time to slack off of our efforts.) We can likewise avoid the kind of energy gap that could plunge 8,000 years of human progress into darkness.

But if we think that calling "bullshit" will make it go away -- we will be the ones going away, instead.

--p!
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Yeah, burning all that coal won't be a problem for global warming!
:sarcasm:

BTW, "Peak Uranium" will be in within 20 years.

How are you making out with your tabletop cold fusion?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. 20 years of uranium left?Bull. Last I heard there was a few centuries left
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 10:52 AM by Odin2005
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. No, I wrote "Peak Uranium", which is equivalent to Peak Oil
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Global uranium production peaked in 2001
and a significant shortfall in uranium supply will occur wthin a decade...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9069-1735134,00.html

<snip>

However, a recent report by the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada said that there was likely to be a 45,000-tonne shortage of uranium in the next decade, largely because of growing Chinese demand for the metal. Prices for uranium have almost tripled, to about $26/lb between March 2003 and May 2005, after being stable for years.

According to the Organisation for Economic Co- operation and Development’s Nuclear Agency’s “red book” — its statistical study of world uranium resources and demand — the world consumed 67,000 tonnes of uranium in 2002. Only 36,000 tonnes of this was produced from primary sources, with the balance coming from secondary sources, in particular ex- military sources as nuclear weapons are decommissioned.

In 2001 the European Commission said that at the current level of uranium consumption, known uranium resources would last 42 years. With military and secondary sources, this life span could be stretched to 72 years. Yet this rate of usage assumes that nuclear power continues to provide only a fraction of the world’s energy supply. If capacity were increased six-fold, then the 72-year supply would last just 12 years.

<snip>

Also see...

Uranium Overview 1949-2004
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/nuclear.html

:)
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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. My colleague in physics says we have 20 years of
fuel for our nuclear plants already in storage. Peak uranium is a century away, according to his own calculation. (More credible perhaps is the judgement of Kenneth Deffeyes, in his book Beyond Oil: The View From Hubbert's Peak. He describes his own investigations into the amount of uranium available. He says there's enough for a long time, we won't need to build breeder reactors for the time being.)
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. That was an excellent tribute interview
Edited on Thu Mar-09-06 11:51 PM by depakid
http://www.mkinghubbert.com/tribute/compilation

I was pretty impressed that Hubbert was aware of the "growth fetish" that's so prevalent among neoclassical economists (who apparantly believe that the've managed to suspend the laws of thermodynamics). Yep- peak oil is going to cause serious problems for the world's financial system.

It also sounded like Hubbert was influenced by the general systems movement of the 1950's. That, however, did not surprise me. Makes perfect sense. They were (and are) visionaries, too.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. ok, so use heavy crude when conventional crude runs out...n/t
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Another way of saying "Use expensive when the cheap runs out"
Certainly possible, but also likely pricey.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. no difference to the end user
conventional crude, from the Middle East,
production/refine cost 3 USD, sells for 60 USD

heavy, from worldwide,
production/refine cost 30 USD, sells for 60 USD
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Resources for which we don't have the refining capability
"The largest number of refineries in the United States can process light, sweet crude oils, while only the small fraction of refineries that have extensive desulfurization and bottoms-conversion units can use heavy, high sulfur crude oils such as that produced in Venezuela. Refineries that normally run intermediate sour crude oil could run a small quantity of heavy sour crude if they could blend it with light sweet crude oil, but if light sweet crude oil is in short supply, then that option is not available. When a heavy sour production source is disrupted, refiners can run a lighter mix of crude oils, but as in the recent Venezuelan production loss, refiners shift crude oils so that the heavy crude oil refiners still run a relatively heavier mix."

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/feature_articles/2003/venezuelan/vzimpacts.htm

Also, there's not enough heavy oil - 15% of total global reserves (according to ExxonMobil):

Heavy crude oil is any petroleum with an API gravity of less than 28 degrees or a high specific density. It is viscous, does not flow well and usually has impurities such as sulfur, heavy metals, waxes and carbon residue. In other words, it's tough and expensive to get out of the ground, transport and refine. But heavy oil makes up about 15 percent of the world's remaining oil resources. As lighter oil reserves become increasingly more difficult to find, heavy crude oil will be needed to provide a more secure supply of energy for global markets. New field production technologies coupled with advanced refining processes -- such as ExxonMobil's proprietary fluid bed technology to thermally convert heavy oil to clean liquids -- are making ambitious heavy oil projects not only possible, but profitable as well.

http://www.prod.exxonmobil.com/scitech/leaders/capabilities/mn_upstream_heavy.html

(Emphasis added)

In addition, I don't know if your initial analogy holds up. You're talking about using conventional oil, and then going after the unconventional/heavy. At present, the mixture of large amounts of inexpensively produced conventional oil masks the higher costs of of expensively produced heavy oil which makes up a very small portion of the upstream supply. However, when inexpensive conventional oil diminishes, there will be only one way to fill the supply gap - through ever-increasing amounts of far costlier heavy crude.

There's going to be a big difference between upstream supply of which 90% costs $3/bbl to produce, and upstream supply of which 90% costs $30/bbl to produce.





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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. comment
heavy crude might be 15 percent of reserves now,
I've been lead to believe the reason for that is...

in the past, little incentive to look for certain crudes, if it costs
30 bucks to pump it out, move it, and refine it.

wells, special pieplines, special refineries, are just not going to
sping out of the groung, just because crude prices are now sixty.

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. The Hari Seldon of our time. nt
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