Prius Owners Question Mileage Claims

[JohnWxy]

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/hybridwatch01.html

for your consideration:

November 20, 2005

A desire for fuel economy is the reason most consumers plunk down big bucks for a Toyota Prius or one of the other gas-electric hybrids that are consuming a fast-growing slice of the American auto market.

But while most hybrid owners at least claim to be happy with their pricey acquisitions, some Prius buyers are troubled by nagging indications that Toyota's gas mileage claims for the hybrid may have a little fiction mixed in with all of the facts.

Toyota, of course, insists that all of its mileage claims are based upon standardized Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) tests.

But for Sandra C. of Bloomington, Indiana, the figures just don't add up. In fact, she says she was told the onboard computer in her car is programmed to provide high mileage numbers that may exceed the miles per gallon the car actually achieves.

Sandra bought her new Prius in the spring of 2005. “I've been watching my gas mileage and have consistently gotten around 34 miles per gallon,” she wrote to ConsumerAffairs.Com. “That is far below the sticker information and hype.”

The Toyota Prius advertises on its sticker that the EPA has determined through testing that the car achieves an average of 60 mpg in city driving and 51 mpg on the highway.

Sandra took her Prius into the dealer for a check-up and was initially told that she was getting 46 miles to a gallon, which is less than the amount claimed by Toyota for city driving but still a pretty enviable figure. The service technician turned on the gas mileage icon of the onboard computer for her to prove his point.

“The computer did say 46 miles per gallon,” Sandra wrote. “I asked them why it is that when I divide the miles from fill-up to fill-up by the gallons I put in, I get 34 or 33 miles a gallon?”

The service technician admonished Sandra that she probably had her math wrong. “I said no and I wanted an answer,” she said.

Finally the service department manager told Sandra, “Yes, you are right, you probably are getting 34 miles to a gallon.”

When Sandra asked why the computer spit out the higher inaccurate, number the service manager told her, “That is a number Toyota has programmed into the car which accounts for wind resistance and other factors,” she said.

[benburch]

1. I get almost exactly what the computer says I get.

I check it all the time.

[hatrack]

2. This July will be five years for me

I've averaged right around 50 in the summer and a touch under 45 in the winter. I'm also a pretty featherfoot driver, which I'm sure has much to do with my numbers.

[RufusEarl]

8. Five years?

I was thinking of buying a new hybrid car, but recently read an article pointing out that the batteries require changing after five to seven years at a cost of @ $7000.00. If true, thats a pretty hefty maintenance bill.

[skids]

12. The article was wrong. n/t

[hatrack]

13. No serious problems to date - Toyota estimates 10 year battery life

And the warranty for the hybrid battery is good for 8 years.

So far, so good.

[unblock]

3. "accounts for wind resistance"???

ah, so 46 mpg is the mileage you WOULD HAVE gotten if you had been doing all your driving on a raised test bed inside a garage with no wind resistance?

and this is a useful number how?

besides marketing, of course?

[shoelace414]

4. I used to have a Prius and the MPG is very sensitive to how you drive

more so than "normal" cars

[GemMom]

21. If you're no longer driving the Prius,

what are you driving now?

[megatherium]

5. My personal take (having no experience with hybrids):

I think you'd be better off just getting a good subcompact car. Certain Civics or the Toyota Echo get an honest high 30s-low 40s mpg(depending on city/highway driving or whether you have a manual transmission). But they cost a lot less than the Prius. Or go with one of the Volkswagen diesels that get 50 mpg. I gather in Europe, hybrids aren't what they're going for, diesels are (they have cleaner diesel fuel there, something we're getting in a couple of years, I think).

But I will definitely want a plug-in hybrid, if and when these appear. Some Prius owners are already doing after-market conversions to make them rechargeable from the wall outlet; you put more batteries in the vehicle. So you can drive ten or twenty miles without using any gas. These folks are getting 60-100 mpg.

[papau]

7. I agree - I am waiting for the production "plug-in" hybrid that uses

E85 fuel (or at least the 20% stuff)!

:-)

[Strelnikov_]

19. Same Here. With All These 'Hybrid Can't Service You After The Prom'

threads, though, I am getting tempted to trade in my VW TDI for a Prius.

I mean, for Christ's sake.

On a serious note, I was 50/50 when I picked the TDI over the Prius last spring, and am still 50/50. I settled on the TDI due to the ability to (relatively) safely stockpile 30 gal. of fuel, and the option to burn a biofuel. Also, most of my driving is on the open road, where the TDI's really shine. In town, I'm getting 30-34 mpg (air conditioner does not seem to make a difference, though).

If I was more of a 50/50 City/Highway driver, I would have gone Prius.

The new Civic hybrid is an improvement, but still does not offer the electric-only capability from stops and at low speeds.

As far as I am concerned, Toyota's HSD is an engineering marvel, and I hope to own one some day.

[Ron Green]

6. My VW Golf TDI gets 55 mpg on the highway,

and it'll run a hundred miles an hour.

(not at the same time, however.) :-)

[tech3149]

9. 95% of mileage is driving style

I get an almost consistent 40mpg in my 98 Civic manual transmission. The sticker mileage is 32/37. Accelerate slowly, coast as much as possible, let gravity do as much as possible, and pay attention to traffic. A few extra pounds in the tires doesn't hurt.

[CountAllVotes]

11. right!

I've been experimenting on my Honda Accord SE. It is a 4-cylinder. I was getting as low as 20 mpg for awhile. I now have a couple of extra lbs. in the tires (they were LOW) and also some fuel injector treatments added to the tank.

I've been trying to drive at 55 mph as much as possible and I also coast when I can and use the cruise control as much as possible.

Yesterday when I tanked up I figured out I am now getting 27 mpg which is a HUGE improvement of almost 35%!

:kick:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

14. What IS IT with you and the hybrids?

Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short
Topic started by JohnWxy on Jan-29-06 04:31 PM (23 replies)
Last modified by IDemo on Jan-31-06 08:46 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=40301


Under real-world conditions, I get:

1) 45 MPG during the summer with the air conditioner running
2) 40 MPG during the winter with the heater and defroster running
3) 55 MPG during normal highway driving
4) 65 MPG tailgaiting a Hummer for 15 minutes

See related threads:

Traveling Blue along the Democratic Underground Railroad
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3400682


Traveling Blue through Red Territory (Boston to Miami)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3256057

[NNadir]

20. Well look at it this way: At least the caps key is not stuck. n/t

[Ian David]

15. So, why do you hate Hybrids so much?

Production of Batteries for Electric and Hybrid Vehicles
Topic started by JohnWxy on Jan-25-06 04:11 PM (44 replies)
Last modified by loindelrio on Jan-27-06 05:50 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=39852


Before buying a hybrid consider all the costs
Topic started by JohnWxy on Jan-25-06 03:14 PM (12 replies)
Last modified by NNadir on Jan-27-06 09:20 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=39837


Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short
Topic started by JohnWxy on Jan-29-06 04:31 PM (23 replies)
Last modified by IDemo on
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=40301


Prius Owners Question Mileage Claims
Topic started by JohnWxy on Feb-01-06 04:24 PM (14 replies)
Last modified by IanDB1 on Feb-01-06 05:09 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=40722

And that's only in the past week!

Was your mommy killed by a hybrid?

Were you abandandoned in a parking lot and raised by a pack of SUVs?

Please, I'm curious.

[Dead_Parrot]

16. ...raised by a pack of SUVs...

Thanks Ian. I needed that! :D

[Ian David]

17. self-delete

[trekbiker]

18. I think maybe JohnWxy suffers from "Prius Envy"...

[Ian David]

22. LOL! Anyway, as long as we're Prius-bashing, here's my list...

of things I don't like about my 2001 Toyota Prius, and also some obscure things I do like

By the way, I love my Prius.

1) If you have a cup in the front cup-holder, you can't plug anything into the cigarette lighter.

2) Maybe it's just my particular Prius, but the outer door on the gas tank is very sensitive, and if you touch it the wrong way, you have to go back inside the car to pull the release lever again.

3) If I'm sitting parked in the car, and I cross my legs in the driver's seat, sometimes my foot will hit the power window control.

4) If you leave your lights on over night and the regular battery goes dead, you can't use your Hybrid-drive batteries to jump-start yourself. Sort of the old, "Water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink" conundrum.

And now, the things I like about my Prius that you usually don't hear about.

1) The windshield washer fluid reservoir holds a whole gallon, so you don't have that 1/10 gallon left behind in the jug when you re-fill it.

2) If you run out of gas, you can drive about 5 miles on just the electric motor, doing about 30 MPH. Afterward, you'll have to turn-off the check-engine light by performing a complex ritual ritual that involves opening and shutting the doors. But it will bravely soldier on to the next gas station running on batteries.

3) Fascinating touch-screen display. The radio shows the names of many stations automatically, and for some even shows what song is playing. The radio will even scan for stations and sort them by category.

4) As long as you drive in reverse, the gasoline engine stays turned off. This is the perfect stealth-mode for dyslexics who want to silently cruise the neighborhood.

5) If you want to commit suicide by locking yourself in the garage with the engine turned on, you'd better pack food and water for about a week. While idling, the engine automatically turns itself off, re-starting periodically only to charge its batteries.

6) If you put the car in "engine-breaking" mode, it will automatically slow itself down using the generator just by taking your foot off the gas. This seems to add about another 5-10 MPG to much of my driving. It also seems like a less obvious way to slow-down when approaching a speed trap, since the front end of the car doesn't "dip."

7) It very nicely survived-- with very little damage-- a pretty fierce rear-end collision. Some woman rear-ended me and fairly totaled her car. Her front-end was torn apart. Her airbag deployed. We barely felt a thing and walked away with a few hundred dollars in damages.


That's the stuff aside from things like variable speed transmission without gears, super-ultra-low-emissions (SULEV), great gas mileage, etc.

[trekbiker]

23. I plan to get one..

probably the 3rd generation model planned for 2008. I'm waiting for the Li Ion battery with extended range. Hopefully Toyota will offer a PHEV version.