Nissan Leaf outsells Chevy Volt by more than 2 to 1 (1142 Leafs sold, 481 Volts)

[txlibdem]

Is this the beginning of the era of domination for electric cars?

Once again, General Motors is burying the monthly sales totals for the Chevy Volt. In a press release headlined "May U.S. Retail Sales Rise 9 Percent on Demand for Fuel-Efficient Vehicles," the Volt's sales numbers are not disclosed. Instead, the total – 481 – is in the detailed PDF of the Chevrolet brand sales totals and shows the car is suffering from another month-to-month drop; GM sold 493 in April. Last month, GM told us that drop in Volt sales compared to March's 608 units was due, in part, to the company sending 300 Volts to dealers to use as demo vehicles. We await word on what the reason for the drop is this time.

On the other hand, Nissan is proudly proclaiming that it sold 1,142 units of the Nissan Leaf in May, a huge increase over the 573 sold in April. Overall, Leaf sales have now totaled 2,167 deliveries this year. For comparison, GM has sold 2,184 Volts in 2011. If this trend continues, it won't be long before we hear Nissan touting a new tagline for the Leaf: the best-selling plug-in car in America.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/01/may-sales-chevy-volt-481-nissan-leaf-1-142/

According to another article at the same site, a GM employee admitted soft sales are due to low demand for the Volt, not limited supply:
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/03/chevy-volt-sales-whats-going-on/

[Ian David]

1. Right now, plug-in hybrids seem to be what the market wants.

Until you can pull into any gas station and swap-out your spent batteries in exchange for freshly charged ones, as easily a filling up with gas, that is how it will be.

[txlibdem]

3. The Volt is the plug-in hybrid, its sales are less than half the all electric Leaf

Based on sales it seems like the market wants an electric car not a hybrid. Can I ask where did you get your data?

[kristopher]

4. These results could reflect enthusiasm in the two sales forces and their respective markets..

It is far too early to draw conclusions about the technologies under the hood.

[NYC_SKP]

5. If you try driving both and check the specs, you might come to the same conclusion that I did.

The Volt, not surprisingly coming from GM, is a much bigger car that the leaf (or my Prius), but doesn't deliver the range or highway mileage of the Prius.

The leaf, at least, is of a restrained size, quite spacious for it's weight, and more economical.

I'd recommend the Volt only for someone who uses it mostly for short commutes because it doesn't have the range and gets worse mileage than a standard Prius.

But for that kind of use, one can just get a Leaf, so why bother with the Volt?

What GM SHOULD HAVE done is make a much lighter Volt, like a Leaf with an onboard generator.

I like the approach, but it's just too damn big (just like Detroit to fuck that up).

[Ian David]

9. I pulled it out of my ass. n/t

[wtmusic]

15. K/R for honesty.

:D

[Tesha]

2. The Volt is far too expensive for what it delivers.

The "floor" under this market is the price of
a used Prius and that's about $13,000 to $19,000
for a gently-used, quite-recent Prius.

Compared to those Prii, you'd need astronomical
gas savings in order to justify the Volt econ-
omically and it's simply not a sexy-enough car
to attract a lot of "early adopters" just for
its chic value.

Tesha

[Nihil]

6. That's a shame ...

> Compared to those Prii, you'd need astronomical gas savings in order
> to justify the Volt economically and it's simply not a sexy-enough
> car to attract a lot of "early adopters" just for its chic value.

The big potential selling point for the Volt is that it is an American car.

In the past, that one issue has been responsible for American drivers
purchasing car A (US) vs car B (Japanese) even though car B has been
technically better (and sometimes slightly cheaper).

If Chevy don't get their act together then there is a risk that the
US public will end up being misled that "economical cars are just foreign
gimmicks" and bang goes the hope in the domestic transportation market.

Yes, some people will still do the right thing and buy EVs/hybrids
according to their needs but without a domestic "competitive" offering,
the oil majors will be laughing all the way to the bank.

:-(

[NYC_SKP]

7. Stupid GM. When the Prius became popular, they gave us the Hybrid Yukon...

The Volt is not too far away, just to bulky and inefficient, short range and low mileage over distances.



:puke:

[Ready4Change]

8. Volts problem is price.

The Volts price starts at $40,000 new. The Prius starts around $23,0000 new. Twice the price for what most will see as the same hybrid-ness? It's really hard to justify buying a Volt.

I've not test driven a Volt, but I acknowledge it's American-ness, suspect it likely has a larger interior and possibly is quicker off the line. But is it enough of those things to justify a doubling of price? I doubt it. Worse, when you get into customers who value those things, you move out of the range of customers who value hybrid drive trains in the first place. So you are NOW competing with conventional cars in the $40,000 price range. That's some VERY heavy competition.

Meanwhile, the Leaf is a pure EV. That's something neither the Volt nor Prius can claim. There is a lot of pent up demand for a pure EV, and the Leaf has that market niche all to itself. So comparing Leaf sales to the hybrids is a bit apples/oranges right now. Once the initial rush for pure EV's is sated it will be in more direct competition with hybrids. I think then the Leafs sales will drop precipitously, because most US buyers still want their cars to be capable of trips of more than 100 miles a day. (Even if they almost never make such trips.)

[kristopher]

10. Range Anxiety is Real, Say Stranded Leaf Drivers

PALO ALTO, Calif. --- New owners are generally enthusiastic about their all-electric Nissan Leafs.

They are also finding themselves stuck on the side of the road occasionally when the battery runs out.

Three different participants at Charged 2011, a two-day symposium on electric transportation sponsored by the Silicon Valley Leadership Group taking place this week at SAP’s offices in Palo Alto, shared stories about how their Leafs ran out of power at inconvenient times.

While the speakers weren’t anti-EV, the first-hand anecdotes underscored the need for public charging networks and stations, the need for new EV owners to think about their routes and energy consumption, and the need for EV manufacturers to beef up their technology.

Ironically...

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/range-anxiety-is-real-say-stranded-leaf-drivers/

[txlibdem]

16. Leaf battery dead? Just call for FREE roadside assistance.

While I am not at all surprised to see you posting anti-Electric Vehicle (pro Oil) talking points, that doesn't mean that you can twist the truth.

Vehicles have a set range. How many times have you seen some poor SOB walking along the side of the freeway with a gas can in hand? I used to see it every day (then I stopped taking freeways). So, I am sure that some people are going to have poor judgement, or whatever causes gasoline powered car drivers to run out of gas on the freeway, in an electric car as well.

Or it could be like that idiotic UK petrol-slanted car show that drained the Leaf's battery ON PURPOSE so they can get a photo op of their staff pushing the "out of battery" Leaf.

PS, I am not disagreeing that we need a national electric vehicle charging infrastructure, and more range for less cost from the manufacturers (that is being worked on). But the Nissan Leaf warns you when its battery is low and displays a navigation map to where the nearest charging stations are so you really have to wonder. The Leaf also sends you a text message if you forget to plug it in at night. It's really hard to screw that up.

PPS, in Japan: http://blogs.automotive.com/nissan-tests-quick-recharge-ev-roadside-assistance-program-japan-27655.html
... in the USA: they're working on that (maybe with Triple A (AAA)) http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging#/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging
... and http://livingleaf.info/2011/04/nissan-leaf-roadside-assistance/

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[txlibdem]

19. I reread the article: your post is inaccurate, it is not positive about EVs

The article makes no positive comments about the Leaf. It compares the 6.6 "kilovolt" charge capabilities of several upcoming EVs to the Leaf's 3.3. First off, it's 6.6 kilowatts, not "kilovolts" -- no home electrical service provides 6.6 or even 3.3 kilovolts.

One of the "stranded" Leaf owners' boss at CalCars prefers the Volt as the "better" all around vehicle.

Your choice of what to quote from that article is telling of your position, in my opinion.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[txlibdem]

21. Adhominem not accepted: you are making false statements then attempting to cover up

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Shame on you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_1,_2,_and_3_charging#Level_1.2C_2.2C_and_3_charging
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Charging
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_leaf#Recharging

You are wrong and you and I both know that you are wrong, as is the hit piece article you linked to.

[kristopher]

22. you've lost it.

EERE Information Center

California > Laws and Regulations
Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Requirements

New EVs and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) must be equipped with a conductive charger inlet port that meets the specifications contained in Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) standard J1772. EVs and PHEVs must be equipped with an on-board charger with a minimum output of 3.3 kilovolt amps. These requirements do not apply to EVs and PHEVs that are only capable of Level 1 charging, which has a maximum power of 12 amperes (amps), a branch circuit rating of 15 amps, and continuous power of 1.44 kilowatts. (Reference California Code of Regulations Title 13, Section 1962.2)

[txlibdem]

24. Gawd! Why don't you just admit you were (and are) wrong. You are a bigger man than this.

I understand the math behind electrical circuits. Volts times Amps equals Watts, Watts divided by Amps equals Volts, etc. But the quote in your post states clearly:
"continuous power of 1.44 kilowatts"

3300 Watts / 220 Volts = 15 Amps
6600 Watts / 220 Volts = 30 Amps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_1,_2,_and_3_charging#Level_1.2C_2.2C_and_3_charging
Level 2
----------------
AC energy to the vehicle's on-board charger;208-240 volt, single phase. The maximum current specified is 32 amps (continuous) with a branch circuit breaker rated at 40 amps. Maximum continuous input power is specified as 7.68 kW (= 240V x 32A*).
-------------------
208-240 V AC;
12 A to 80 A (= 2.5 to 19.2 kW)

[NickB79]

11. Frankly, I'm amazed that the sales numbers are so low

Only 4,000 Leaf's and Volts on the road so far?

[wtmusic]

12. 20,000 Leafs have been "ordered"

in the sense that prospective owners have plopped down $100 for a place on the list. But they aren't available, in part because of the quake.

There are apparently some Volts in showrooms.

[tinrobot]

23. I canceled my "order" a few months ago.

I would have gotten my Leaf sometime around now. Didn't like the styling of the Leaf and the 8 hour charger seemed anemic.

Waiting for more EVs to come on the market, hopefully within the next 12 months or so we'll have some more choices.

[txlibdem]

17. 4000 in this economy...

When you put it in perspective that we are in a depression, getting a loan is harder, etc., 4000 aint so bad.

[TheWraith]

13. What are the "normal" sales rates of cars at their price points?

Or put another way, is it normal for two cars aimed at much the same demographic to have wildly different sales when one of them is as much cheaper as the Leaf is? Overthinking a situation can sometimes be as bad as underthinking it.

[One_Life_To_Give]

14. vs 22,711 Cruise,

Impalla 16,707, Taurus 6,277, Malibu 25,600, Fusion 24,666

Don't try to read too much into initial sales volumes of these new tech products. The only clear data is they are still a niche market. So there will be much more turbulence in the sales figures.