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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 07:43 AM
Original message
Italian mafia implicated in radioactive waste dumping
Thursday, September 17, 2009: I realize this is a little dated but considering the fact that this waste is dangerous for such a long time makes it still relevant today.
Maybe even more so since the recent push for more of these Nuke plants to be built.

The 'Ndrangheta, an Italian mafia syndicate, has been accused by a former member of the gang of sinking dozens of ships loaded with toxic waste, much of it radioactive. He says a journalist and cameraman were killed to keep them from revealing the activity.

Turncoat Francesco Fonti has identified a wreck located a few months ago by environmental workers as MV Kunsky or Cunsky and says he sunk it himself in 1992, complete with 100 barrels of radioactive waste. The gang received £100,000 ($162,720) for the job.

The wreck was scoured last week by a robot, but could not be identified. It lies 480 feet below sea level, and is about 330 to 360 feet long. Its description and location have been found to match an old account Fonti gave authorities three years ago, and environmental detection equipment has been dispatched to the ship, images of which do show barrels in the area.

Fonti claims he blew it up with explosives from Holland and it was used to dispose of Norwegian nuclear waste. The damage seen by the team working at the site does appear consistent with this version of events. Prosecutors say it appears the issue is displaying "all the appearances of being a confirmation". Fonti says waste was disposed of for businesses across Europe.

Not much more: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Italian_mafia_implicated_in_radioactive_waste_dumping

Let me just say this infuriates the fuck out of me as this has been going on since at least '92. A sorry bunch of bastids who do this
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Radioactive waste being dumped along Somalia, too.
and god knows where else.

Tsunami waves could have spread illegally dumped nuclear waste and other toxic waste on Somalia's coast, a United Nations spokesman has said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4312553.stm

Seems we are intent on wiping out the human race on many many fronts.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. There is no telling the amounts of this toxic waste has been dumped and for how long
it's been going on. It fries my ass to read that some want us to build more of these nuclear power plants.
Nuclear power is neither safe, clean nor cheap and the decision to build any to begin with was not a sane decision either.


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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Guess you should shut down solar then
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 12:26 PM by Statistical
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802595.html

Someone doing something illegal isn't a reason to shutdown an industry. If we did then we would have no industries left.

Note: I don't think we should shut down solar or wind just pointing out the hyprocricy of using that as a "reason" to shut down nuclear.

Also nothing indicated in the article that the waste came from nuclear energy. Lots of radioactive waste comes from industrial uses, coal power, hospitals, etc. I mean not sure how much 100 barrels weighs but I doubt it is enough to contain even a single fuel assembly from nuclear reactor (30 tons per refueling).
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Systematic Chaos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. SSSSHHHHH!!
Don't be trying to argue reason with ol' Ma Dookie.

He's pissed at some bastids! :scared:
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. How clever of you
to understand that belittling a messenger is so much easier than actually contending with the facts he's presenting.

Does it ever work for you?
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Systematic Chaos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I've been contending with the truth of what a rainbow farting clusterfuck of a masturbatory fantasy
solar truly is for quite some time now.

It's this crowd of so-called "renewables" cheerleaders who need the help, not me.

Did you even fucking bother to read the article about solar industry waste linked above? Maybe you should, then get back to me.

:eyes:
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. The ONLY good thing I can see about a story like this surfacing
is that the Rah-Rah-Nukes Squad on DU is always marvelously hushed for awhile afterward.

Thanks for posting this.

I read somewhere that the nuke industry is currently pumping more money into lobbyists, so I expect to see even more stories soon from hired nuke cheerleaders on how "dangerous" wind turbines are and how "horribly expensive" photovoltaic panels are, and how "safe and clean" nuclear energy is.


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malakai2 Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Okay, sure, I'll post in this thread one time
Do you believe it's possible for two people to look at an outcome, then using different methods based on their own personal expertise, arrive at different positions on the outcome? If not, you can stop reading my posts and I'll stop reading yours. If yes, please continue reading.

Do you know what a risk assessment is? You know, where you establish the actual probabilistic risk of effects A, B, and C from causes D, E, and F. Have you, or has anyone else posting in this thread, applied a real risk assessment to an operational nuclear facility, versus, say, a coal power plant, or even the ten pesticides most commonly used within five miles of your home? Do you know the difference between toxic and radioactive? As in, plutonium is both toxic and radioactive, whereas strontium 84 is not toxic below a certain threshold, and strontium 90 is radioactive but not toxic below a certain threshold. I know you're familiar with the NIMBY effect. It manifests in this case by electricity consumers fighting against a repository for the waste generated by the electricity they consumed, to such an extent that the waste ends up illegally dumped in the ocean rather than contained in a controlled repository with a low, but non-zero, health risk. Most people don't do honest risk assessment because people conflate entire concepts like toxic and radioactive, and they tend to discount other concepts entirely, which makes for a shoddy assessment. It's probably a good thing most people don't do these risk assessments, because if they did there would be howls of protest against the coal plants that provide most of their electricity and the industrial farms that provide most of their food. Heads would explode.

People don't want nuclear plants, and that's fine, but that position is not based on actual risk. That position locks them into coal generation, which is currently the only other baseload generation that can be built anywhere. Hydro can be a baseload (until the reservoir silts in), but is geographically limited and suffers from a lack of potential sites and NIMBYism. It's either that, or much higher costs for "green" generation. There is another thread at the top of EE right now that highlights the cost of a PV system that could generate at a rate comparable to a nuclear power plant. I'll not repeat the analysis here. Wind has a similar cost issue. Both of these have a storage issue, because they have a ~30% capacity factor, which means it would cost even more to account for storage and excess generation to feed the storage while the sun is shining or the wind is blowing between 12 and 50 mph. Many of the people who irrationally fear nuclear generation also demand readily available, cheap power. That's currently coal, hydro in a few places, and gas at peaker plants. If they're willing to use a lot less electricity, on a less reliable system, and pay the same amount of money, maybe wind and solar.

As for "green," sure, upon completion solar and wind are fairly clean. Prior to completion, they require some damn dirty mining, refining, milling, transportation, and on-site installation. Doing all of that on the scale necessary to offset just the nuclear generation in this country would be messy, messier than most proponents believe. Maintenance on a vast fleet of mechanical generators like wind turbines also strikes me as a substantial long term problem, and buildout on such a scale would encounter massive NIMBYism to boot. But as long as people don't bother assessing relative risk and don't take responsibility for their actions (as energy hogs in some cases, hypocrites in others), I suppose they don't need to.

FWIW, my preference would be to 1) focus on lowering overall use rates from current levels so less generation is necessary; 2) build some nuclear plants to continue baseload as existing coal plants are taken offline; 3) establish at least two spent fuel repositories in NA to consolidate waste where it cannot be accessed or illegally dumped; 4) ban mountaintop removal mining; 5) place a progressive tax on electricity such that energy hogs are penalized into using less; and 6) encourage distributed PV to diminish baseload demand.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Do you know what high-level nuclear waste looks like?
Of course not. If you did, you wouldn't make inane comments about it "leaking into the groundwater".

:eyes:

More ignorance. Feh.
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malakai2 Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Okay, twice
Risk assessment is not pseudo anything. It is "If exposed to quantity A of tritium in drinking water, what is the risk of cancer from said tritium over time period x, Y, and Z." In that case, drinking that water over a period of years is less risky than having a single CT scan. Yet there's no movement of the public demanding CT equipment be scrapped. Why do you suppose that is?

Related, check out post #10.

Also, how many of those windmill thangs operating at a generous 30% capacity do you suppose would be required to replace the combined output of the 104 operating nuclear power plants operating at 92% capacity in the United States? If that many turbines could be built, would you propose replacing the nuclear plants before coal plants? In your mind, does a nuclear power plant pose a larger health risk to you than does your local coal plant?
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. "... the nuke industry is currently pumping more money into lobbyists ..."
Why, the "Green" industry would never do such a dad-blamed, highfalutin', low-down, four-flushin', cattle-rustlin' kind o' thing! (They already get $70 billion+ in subsidies and loan guarantees. Check http://www.eia.doe.gov/">the EIA.)

And some of us Rah-Rah-Nukes Squaddies actually DO support renewable energy, too. We just cringe when we hear that it's "too cheap to meter" "free energy" -- and when we see wind turbines in adverts for penis pills.

But I gotta admit, two hundred meters of towering concrete and steel is mighty inspirational, especially when the "Li'l Pressurized Boiling Water Reactor of Love" is down for refueling. (It's tough maintaining a 90% capacity factor with Women's Olympic skating and ice dancing on TV. And those curling babes! I am verplotzt!)

:funny_emoticon:

--d!
(Sorry. I just don't have the heart to post a Mr. Rofl. He is being worked like a $5 whore here by the Rah-Rah-No-Nukes Squad. Poor guy.)
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hmmm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/skulls-found-on-mafia-ship-laden-with-toxic-waste-1793509.html

The informer, Francesco Fonti, told prosecutors he had been involved in the sinking of the ship in 1992, in order to dispose of 120 barrels of radioactive sludge. He added that he had also taken part in the sinking of two other ships, the Yvonne A and the Voriais.

Mr Fonti, who is now under house arrest, claimed that he knew of at least 30 more vessels sunk by the Calabrian mafia in Italian waters. He said the waste came from European pharmaceutical companies, and the Mafia was paid between $2m and $20m to sink the ships.


So if, as this article suggests, the waste is found to be from nuclear medicine rather than nuclear power, will you be demanding an end to radiotherapy and PET scans? Or will the outrage-o-meter get a small manual adjustment?
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Don't let facts get in the way of a good-ole anti-nuclear bash.
"Facts? We don't need no stinking facts."
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Tum-te-tum ... *kick* (n/t)
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