EPA backs away from GM claim of 230 mpg for Volt

[wtmusic]

"Apparently, we're not the only ones trying to figure out the exact methodology that was used to determine the supposed 230 mile per gallon city rating claimed by General Motors for the upcoming Chevy Volt. In response to a query from the boys at Green Car Advisor, the EPA issued the following statement:

EPA has not tested a Chevy Volt and therefore cannot confirm the fuel economy values claimed by GM. EPA does applaud GM's commitment to designing and building the car of the future - an American-made car that will save families money, significantly reduce our dependence on foreign oil and create good-paying American jobs. We're proud to see American companies and American workers leading the world in the clean energy innovations that will shape the 21st century economy.

Although it deserves noting that GM CEO Fritz Henderson didn't exactly say the 230 mpg rating was an official figure from the EPA, it sure is being bandied about as if it were gospel in the huge marketing campaign launched ahead of today's announcement."

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/08/11/epa-backs-away-from-gm-claim-of-230-mpg-for-volt/

Well. what. a. freaking. surprise.

[FreakinDJ]

1. Who the Hell is "AutoBlogGreen"

"Autoblog Green is a member of the Weblogs, Inc. Network. Privacy Policy, Terms of Service, Notify AOL"

I'll wait for a little more reliable source before I pass judgement

[wtmusic]

2. Will Edmunds work for you?

EPA Applauds GM Effort, but Says It Cannot Confirm Volt's Claimed 230 MPG

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2009/08/epa-applauds-gm-effort-but-says-it-cannot-confirm-volts-claimed-230-mpg.html

[itsrobert]

5. Looks like some 'hired guns' are spreading rumors

I guess they aren't only targeting health care. Pay enough and you can get your distorted message out.

[OKIsItJustMe]

7. Maybe you should quote the EPA statement

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2009/08/epa-applauds-gm-effort-but-says-it-cannot-confirm-volts-claimed-230-mpg.html

…

"EPA has not tested a Chevy Volt and therefore cannot confirm the fuel economy values claimed by GM. EPA does applaud GM's commitment to designing and building the car of the future - an American-made car that will save families money, significantly reduce our dependence on foreign oil and create good-paying American jobs. We're proud to see American companies and American workers leading the world in the clean energy innovations that will shape the 21st century economy."


…

[FreakinDJ]

12. Ya - Edmonds works

This configuration is one I discussed with 1 of the engineers from the California Fuel Cell project. The milage will vary with daily driving distance

[itsrobert]

3. Probably a blog financed by the Japanese Auto makers

makes sense.

[OKIsItJustMe]

4. How about quoting the last paragraph?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/08/11/epa-backs-away-from-gm-claim-of-230-mpg-for-volt

…

When contacted for comment, GM told AutoblogGreen that the EPA is not backing away from the 230 numbers and that it's unlikely that the EPA will come out with a much lower number when they actually get to run a Volt through the official cycle. Further, GM believes that coming out with the 230 rating at this point in time is one way to change people's perception of what kind of car the Volt is.

From the beginning, it's been clear that the EPA had not tested the "Volt," and that the 230 figure was the result of GM's testing.

[wtmusic]

6. Because they just dig themselves deeper

by admitting that by releasing a ridiculously premature figure they're trying to "change people's perception of what kind of car the Volt is".

Aka "hype".

[godai]

8. Nissan Leaf gets 'infinity' mpg.

It's an all electric car, no gas engine. Available in 2011.
They plan to lease the battery (equivalent of buying gas) to lower the cost about $10,000.



http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=153946#4

[OKIsItJustMe]

10. Uh… No. It doesn't work that way

The folks at the EPA are not idiots. They know the electricity comes from somewhere.

…

Under the new methodology being developed, EPA weights plug-in electric vehicles as traveling more city miles than highway miles on only electricity. The EPA methodology uses kilowatt hours per 100 miles traveled to define the electrical efficiency of plug-ins. Applying EPA's methodology, GM expects the Volt to consume as little as 25 kilowatt hours per 100 miles in city driving. At the U.S. average cost of electricity (approximately 11 cents per kWh), a typical Volt driver would pay about $2.75 for electricity to travel 100 miles, or less than 3 cents per mile.

…

[godai]

13. All electric car uses NO gallons of gasoline.

Car with no gas engine wins the mpg battle over one with gas engine. Volt goes 40 miles on electric, Leaf goes 100 miles.

[OKIsItJustMe]

15. Right. But the "LEAF's" mileage is not infinite

Read about the MPG equivalent rating here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_of_gasoline_equivalent

[godai]

18. do you know if GM's claims are based on only electric driving?

I don't understand how you get a mpg value if driving without a gas engine. I realize that the electricity costs money but using mpg seems out of place for all electric cars or a hybrid being driven only on electric.

What's the best news is that a number of mostly electric and all electric cars are coming in the near future.

[OKIsItJustMe]

19. I believe they did

Check their press release:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=204868&mesg_id=204884

Back some years ago, the EPA decided they needed some way to compare the efficiency of an electric car to a gasoline car. People understood the MPG rating, and the CAFE laws were written around MPG ratings, so they developed a method to calculate an equivalent rating for electric cars (and hybrids) based on the assumption that the electricity used in the car was generated by a utility-scale power plant burning "fossil fuel."

http://www.epa.gov/EPA-IMPACT/2000/June/Day-12/i14446.htm

Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Research, Development, and Demonstration Program; Petroleum-Equivalent Fuel Economy Calculation

(Federal Register: June 12, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 113))

…

SUMMARY: The Department of Energy (DOE) is revising its regulations on electric vehicles to provide a petroleum-equivalency factor (PEF) and procedures for calculating the petroleum-equivalent fuel economy of electric vehicles. The petroleum-equivalent fuel economy values of an automobile manufacturer's electric vehicles may be included in the calculation of that manufacturer's corporate average fuel economy (CAFE), according to regulations prescribed by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Transportation.

…

[godai]

21. Yes...just covered this story on Rachel Maddow.

Guest expert indicated this (230 mpg) is what you can get for around 40 miles, with a little gas used charging the battery. So, if I undertstand correctly, any electric car can match or perhaps exceed the GM claims.

[OKIsItJustMe]

22. Not just any electric car, no

Electric cars can be built in an inefficient manner too. For example, if GM sold the car they originally showed off as the "Volt," it wouldn't have gotten as good a rating, because the "new" design has much better aerodynamics (among other things.)

By comparison, Tesla claims:
http://www.teslamotors.com/media/press_room.php?id=224

…

The 100 percent electric-powered Tesla Roadster is capable of accelerating from 0-60 mph in about four seconds. It boasts the equivalent of 135 mpg and a range of up to 250 miles on a single charge -- a combination previously unseen in a mass-produced electric vehicle*. The car’s extended range is due to its state-of-the-art lithium-ion Energy Storage System.

…

Now, GM's 230 MPG figure is for "city." I assume the Tesla figure is for "combined." We'll see what the EPA says, once they actually test it.

[OKIsItJustMe]

9. Well. what. a. freaking. hatchet. job

What, exactly, did GM claim?
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=56132

FOR RELEASE: 2009-08-11

Chevrolet Volt Expects 230 mpg in City Driving

• First mass-produced vehicle to claim more than 100 mpg composite fuel economy
• Tentative EPA methodology results show 25 kilowatt hours/100 miles electrical efficiency in city cycle
• Plugging in daily is key to high-mileage performance

WARREN, Mich. - The Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric vehicle is expected to achieve city fuel economy of at least 230 miles per gallon, based on development testing using a draft EPA federal fuel economy methodology for labeling for plug-in electric vehicles.

The Volt, which is scheduled to start production in late 2010 as a 2011 model, is expected to travel up to 40 miles on electricity from a single battery charge and be able to extend its overall range to more than 300 miles with its flex fuel-powered engine-generator.

"From the data we've seen, many Chevy Volt drivers may be able to be in pure electric mode on a daily basis without having to use any gas," said GM Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson. "EPA labels are a yardstick for customers to compare the fuel efficiency of vehicles. So, a vehicle like the Volt that achieves a composite triple-digit fuel economy is a game-changer."

According to U.S. Department of Transportation data, nearly eight of 10 Americans commute fewer than 40 miles a day http://tinyurl.com/U-S-DOTStudy .

"The key to high-mileage performance is for a Volt driver to plug into the electric grid at least once each day," Henderson said.

Volt drivers' actual gas-free mileage will vary depending on how far they travel and other factors, such as how much cargo or how many passengers they carry and how much the air conditioner or other accessories are used. Based on the results of unofficial development testing of pre-production prototypes, the Volt has achieved 40 miles of electric-only, petroleum-free driving in both EPA city and highway test cycles.

Under the new methodology being developed, EPA weights plug-in electric vehicles as traveling more city miles than highway miles on only electricity. The EPA methodology uses kilowatt hours per 100 miles traveled to define the electrical efficiency of plug-ins. Applying EPA's methodology, GM expects the Volt to consume as little as 25 kilowatt hours per 100 miles in city driving. At the U.S. average cost of electricity (approximately 11 cents per kWh), a typical Volt driver would pay about $2.75 for electricity to travel 100 miles, or less than 3 cents per mile.

The Chevrolet Volt uses grid electricity as its primary source of energy to propel the car. There are two modes of operation: Electric and Extended-Range. In electric mode, the Volt will not use gasoline or produce tailpipe emissions when driving. During this primary mode of operation, the Volt is powered by electrical energy stored in its 16 kWh lithium-ion battery pack.

When the battery reaches a minimum state of charge, the Volt automatically switches to Extended-Range mode. In this secondary mode of operation, an engine-generator produces electricity to power the vehicle. The energy stored in the battery supplements the engine-generator when additional power is needed during heavy accelerations or on steep inclines.

"The 230 city mpg number is a great indication of the capabilities of the Volt's electric propulsion system and its ability to displace gasoline," said Frank Weber, global vehicle line executive for the Volt. "Actual testing with production vehicles will occur next year closer to vehicle launch. However, we are very encouraged by this development, and we also think that it is important to continue to share our findings in real time, as we have with other aspects of the Volt's development."

About Chevrolet
Chevrolet is one of America 's best-known and best-selling automotive brands, and one of the fastest growing brands in the world. With fuel solutions that go from "gas-friendly to gas-free," Chevy has nine models that get 30 miles per gallon or more on the highway, and offers three hybrid models. More than 2.5 million Chevrolets that run on E85 biofuel have been sold. Chevy delivers expressive design, spirited performance and provides the best value in every segment in which it competes. More information on Chevrolet can be found at www.chevrolet.com. For more information on the Volt, visit http://media.gm.com/volt/.

General Motors Company, one of the world's largest automakers, traces its roots back to 1908. With its global headquarters in Detroit, GM employs 235,000 people in every major region of the world and does business in some 140 countries. GM and its strategic partners produce cars and trucks in 34 countries, and sell and service these vehicles through the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall and Wuling. More information on the new General Motors Company can be found at www.gm.com.

# # #
GM strives to ensure that all of the information contained in a press release is accurate at the time it is issued. However, changes in materials, equipment and specifications, prices, availability, etc do occur over time. For the most up-to-date information on currently available models, please visit GM.com/shop.

[wtmusic]

11. Now, don't get emotional.

Just give us something we haven't seen besides company PR.

You know, if you paste 10 paragraphs of bullshit in this forum vs. one paragraph, it's still bullshit.

Love this part:

"We also think that it is important to continue to share our findings in real time." Finding what has yet to be found, GM goes beyond real time...into the future!

[OKIsItJustMe]

14. GM never claimed that the EPA had tested the "Volt"

To suggest that EPA has contradicted them, or that GM lied is simply a lie (or libel or slander, take your pick.)

Like I said, "Hatchet Job."

You just resent GM for producing a decent product.

[wtmusic]

16. I'm sorry, now I've made you sad.

OK, disappointments are part of life, and you're really doing an admirable job. Maybe when GM is drowning in lawsuits filed by the poor souls who pre-ordered the Volt, Nissan will hire you to do their marketing. I'd be happy to provide a reference.

[OKIsItJustMe]

17. No, I'm not "sad"

I have no investment in GM.

However, I just can't stand blatant dishonesty.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=204812&mesg_id=204825

[NNadir]

20. A, um, car?

Let's leave aside for a moment the question of external costs for electricity, or whether GM has actually "produced" an electric car.

What part of "car" have you confused with decency?

Your theory is what, that you have a plan to replace the 700 million cars on this planet in the next ten years with even more consumerism?

Do you have any idea what the planetary per capita consumption of electricity is as average power?

Here, let me help you:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/international/RecentTotalElectricConsumption.xls">16,378.62 kilowatt-hours, or in scientific units, about 58 exajoules of pure electricity. In 2006, world population was roughly 6.5 billion, 0.2 billion smaller than it is now.

There are 31,557,600 seconds in a year, as I never tire of pointing out.

It follows that world power consumption for all purposes for the average human being is about 287 watts of continuous average power. By comparison, US per capita power consumption averages about 12,000 watts.

What part of "decency" do you not understand?

[Historic NY]

23. Autoblog...please your really kidding me.