Report: Toyota developing solar powered green car

[OKIsItJustMe]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j6YAsF3SOqHlP0vYQgSsJ8YaR9LgD95E74J01

Report: Toyota developing solar powered green car

By YURI KAGEYAMA

TOKYO (AP) — Toyota Motor Corp. is secretly developing a vehicle that will be powered solely by solar energy in an effort to turn around its struggling business with a futuristic ecological car, a top business daily reported Thursday.

The Nikkei newspaper, however, said it will be years before the planned vehicle will be available on the market. Toyota's offices were closed Thursday and officials were not immediately available for comment.

According to The Nikkei, Toyota is working on an electric vehicle that will get some of its power from solar cells equipped on the vehicle, and that can be recharged with electricity generated from solar panels on the roofs of homes. The automaker later hopes to develop a model totally powered by solar cells on the vehicle, the newspaper said without citing sources.

The solar car is part of efforts by Japan's top automaker to grow during hard times, The Nikkei said.

…

Call me skeptical… but more power to 'em if this is legit.

[ogneopasno]

1. ...which will continue to be subsidized by Toyota's gas-burning SUVs and pickups.

[Not Me]

2. So why isn't Ford's F150 pickup profits

subsiding similar research?

[OKIsItJustMe]

3. Why Ford Will Survive, GM and Chrysler will fail, and Used Car Dealers Will Thrive in 2009

http://www.ibtimes.com/prnews/20081229/why-ford-will-survive-gm-and-chrysler-will-fail-and-used-car-dealers-will-thrive-in-2009.htm

Why Ford Will Survive, GM and Chrysler will fail, and Used Car Dealers Will Thrive in 2009

Posted 29 December 2008 @ 11:36 am EST

Detailed analysis of the future of the automotive industry in 2009. Compelling reasons that Ford will come out on top and GM and Chrysler will fail. Also insights as to why used car dealers will reap in the profits this year.

Gainesville, FL (PRWEB) December 29, 2008 -- This year has brought many changes to the automotive industry, and 2009 looks to be an even wilder ride. Regardless of any amounts of intervention, not all of the US automotive manufactures will see 2010. Ford will survive the storm and actually become fairly profitable inside of 2 years, GM and Chrysler are doomed to bankruptcy, and there will be a massive rise in used car sales. Independent Used Car Dealers and Franchised Ford Dealerships with sufficient used inventory and appropriate internet presence will thrive in 2009.

Why Ford Survives.

Ford will become the new green automaker that Americans are thirsting for. Releasing the Fusion Hybrid this spring saves Ford's lovable American image just in the nick of time. The new Ford offering which gets Prius like fuel milage in a mid-sized sedan will actually be available without a premium and will introduce several new improvements in Hybrid Technology. Fuel costs remain the No. 1 factor in new vehicle sales even with sliding gas prices and this spring the New Ford Fusion Hybrid will beat out the much smaller Honda Civic Hybrid in fuel mileage and sales.

Why GM and Chrysler go boom.

The most overlooked story that completely changes the automotive landscape and will doom GM is the changing of GMAC to a bank holding company. This change means that GM no longer has controlling interest in its main financing arm. When Ford gets stuck with old inventory, they tell their financing company, Ford Motor Credit, to start "buying deep" on those models. A bank holding company can not listen to such demands from GM. When Ford offers sub-vented financing rates (0%), well they own Ford Motor Credit, so to Ford that is like taking money out of their left pocket and putting it in the right. GM will no longer enjoy this luxury as all of the financing will be coming from "the bank." This means that for GM to match Ford's Incentivized Financing, they will have to "buy down" the rate with real money. Also, as the book value continues to fall on existing new inventory, no one will be financing those "New" 07 and 08 GM's that are still on dealers lots. Throw into the mix the Gettlefinger factor and no government, nor private entity in their right mind could or should save GM. As far as Chrysler goes, are they even still making cars? The only way Chrysler survives this is in holy matrimony with Ford, or in a three way with GM and taxpayers.

…

[OKIsItJustMe]

5. Ford's Hot Ecostar Electric Car

http://www.greencar.com/perspective/ford-ecostar-electric-vehicle/

Ford's Hot Ecostar Electric Car

by Ron Cogan
03/22/2008

Early electric vehicle efforts took many forms, with automakers striving to compress the learning curve in order to meet California's impending 1998 Zero Emission Vehicle mandate. While a few automakers like Honda developed their electric vehicle programs around all-new designs, most turned to electrifying existing car, truck, minivan, or SUV platforms. Some were recognizable models sold in the U.S. Others, like Ford's Ecostar, were built on platforms sold only abroad. The Ecostar was unique in many respects, not the least of which was its use of an experimental sodium-sulfur "hot" battery, which provided exceptional on-board energy. Ultimately, this battery didn't make the cut and was abandoned, although the Ecostar itself still shines as one of the era's true stars. This article shares details of Ford's Ecostar program and is reprinted verbatim from Green Car's December 1993 issue.

FORD ECOSTARS TAKE TO THE HIGHWAY
ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED DECEMBER 1993 It was just over a year ago when Ford debuted its Ecostar electric vehicle to the skeptical motoring press in Los Angeles, Calif. The unusual vehicle, based on the automaker's European Escort Van built in Britain at Ford's Halewood, Merseyside, manufacturing facility, seemed normal enough at first blush. But its powertrain made it the most unique vehicle ever to hit Hollywood's Sunset Strip.

Green Car editors who drove the Ecostar found it to be an extremely capable EV, perhaps the best to date. But there were a few small glitches including an occasional drivetrain shudder and a degree of inverter noise. A recent test drive in a more refined Ecostar example illustrates just how far Ford has come in its electric vehicle project. The only two glitches we had noted were conspicuously gone, and the Ecostar drove better than ever.

"The shudder was an interaction between the drive system and the mechanical system it was driving, creating a resonance," Ford's Bob Kiessel told Green Car. "What we had to do was compensate for that resonance. It's all done electronically." Evolutionary changes in the controller also eliminated the high-pitched noise noted on the earlier drive. The Ecostar's gauges and diagnostics were also working this time around, a simple matter of more time spent dialing in the EV's many functions and subsystems.

…

[TheWraith]

4. Nothing special, just a grid-tied EV.

With the added hype of using solar panels to create a net zero effect on the grid--if that actually works out. PR, mostly.

[OKIsItJustMe]

6. Not quite. (If the AP got things right.)

… The automaker later hopes to develop a model totally powered by solar cells on the vehicle, …

This is what I'm skeptical of.

[IDemo]

7. Here too

Unless they can figure out how to power a vehicle with the relatively low amount of solar insolation
that would strike the car even on the brightest of days. That's even if a miracle breakthrough offered
them 100 percent efficient solar panels to work with.

http://www.post1.net/lowem/entry/solar_prius_toyota_to_add_solar_panels_to_some_2009_prius_hybrid_models_innovation_or_gimmick

[TheWraith]

17. A later model. And that's not possible.

Unless you drive less than 5 miles per summer day, more like 1-2 miles a day in the winter (With no heater or headlights), and park your car in the direct sun all the time. Solar cells on a vehicle would provide so little power that matched against the requirements of an EV, even one of those tiny kind, that it wouldn't make a serious dent.

[OKIsItJustMe]

30. An interesting tidbit

Apparently, the Chevy Volt™ will offer a solar roof as an option:

http://gm-volt.com/2008/10/09/lutz-provides-more-volt-details-photovoltaic-roof-to-be-unveiled-in-january-and-development-ahead-of-schedule/

… able to charge the battery from 1/4 to 1/3 over 3 hot blazing days of sun, such as in an airport parking lot …

[TheWraith]

32. From 25% to 33% on the Volt: one mile per day. nt

[OKIsItJustMe]

31. Another interesting tidbit

A 3rd-party solar roof for the Prius:
http://www.solarelectricalvehicles.com/

[NNadir]

8. Again?

Again?

Again?

This is only the 9,875,025th new green solar powered car I've heard of in my life time.

We used to get lots of pictures of Priuses with solar cells on their roofs, each of which could produced the equivalent of a gallon of gasoline in two decades.

[.... callchet ....]

10. Green

may not be that green. Maybe more like brown from the heat. Remember, I am not starting a fight, I just don't know. Solar panels produce a lot of heat, I do know that.

[OKIsItJustMe]

14. Heat is not the problem, insulation is the problem

The Earth dumps massive amounts of heat off into space all of the time. Our problem is that we've increased the insulating qualities of the atmosphere, slowing that loss down somewhat.

[TheWraith]

18. Solar panels don't really produce heat, they just get hot due to being black in sunlight. nt

[OKIsItJustMe]

25. That doesn't really contradict the argument

Essentially, what "callchet" is talking about is increasing the albedo of the area of the solar panel. If, for example, you placed a perfect mirror in that area, much of the energy would be reflected back into space.

On the other hand, the purpose of the solar panel is to capture the energy, and all captured energy eventually means heat.

[madokie]

11. No matter, any is better than none

What have you done besides run your mouth?

[.... callchet ....]

12. Painted my

roof white, Saves about $900 year. Reduces my carbon foot print. What have you done? Read and see what action denying research does. http://www.sepp.org/Archive/controv/controversies/epavskrug.html

[madokie]

13. Carbon neutral heat for my home for the last 16 going on 17 years for starters

new windows and an increase of insulation for my home, new high efficiency refrigerator, new high efficiency washer/dryer to name a few plus CFL's. A passing down to our son our old pellet stove and new cfls for them, likewise refrigerator. Theres been lots of things madokies done to make things better for all including you. A high efficiency ground source heat pump is coming next to name a few. Three of our friends and two of my family members switching to wood pellet fuel as a direct result of my leading the way. On and on I could go. Latest creation was built an off road electric vehicle for my brothers that takes the place of an ICE powered vehicle that is used in his business. Surely you get the picture by now that I put my time, efforts and money where many only pay lip service.:hi:

splchk

[OKIsItJustMe]

15. My family heated with wood for decades, now, I wonder…

We had a pretty efficient stove, so I think that soot was minimal, but since there was build-up in the chimney, I know it wasn't non-existent.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080323210225.htm

Black Carbon Pollution Emerges As Major Player In Global Warming

ScienceDaily (Mar. 24, 2008) — Black carbon, a form of particulate air pollution most often produced from biomass burning, cooking with solid fuels and diesel exhaust, has a warming effect in the atmosphere three to four times greater than prevailing estimates, according to scientists in an upcoming review article in the journal Nature Geoscience.

Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego atmospheric scientist V. Ramanathan and University of Iowa chemical engineer Greg Carmichael, said that soot and other forms of black carbon could have as much as 60 percent of the current global warming effect of carbon dioxide, more than that of any greenhouse gas besides CO2. The researchers also noted, however, that mitigation would have immediate societal benefits in addition to the long term effect of reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

"Observationally based studies such as ours are converging on the same large magnitude of black carbon heating as modeling studies from Stanford, Caltech and NASA," said Ramanathan. "We now have to examine if black carbon is also having a large role in the retreat of arctic sea ice and Himalayan glaciers as suggested by recent studies."

In the paper, Ramanathan and Carmichael integrated observed data from satellites, aircraft and surface instruments about the warming effect of black carbon and found that its forcing, or warming effect in the atmosphere, is about 0.9 watts per meter squared. That compares to estimates of between 0.2 watts per meter squared and 0.4 watts per meter squared that were agreed upon as a consensus estimate in a report released last year by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a U.N.-sponsored agency that periodically synthesizes the body of climate change research.

…

[madokie]

19. Pellets stove have very little if any carbon soot output and are not what they are talking about

surely, the one we have now is in the 90% efficiency range, the others I spoke of like the one that our son has now is likewise.
I also design and build gasifier wood burning stoves for heating that is very efficient and which has no creosote buildup at all even after years of service, again no soot output at all or if there is It can't be seen with the naked eye.

Heating with wood in a conventional stove is not the same as what I'm doing or what I build.

[.... callchet ....]

21. I know

what you are talking about. A stoker stove burning with a coke tree is really efficient. Old coal furnaces that burned coal using a stoker produced a lot of heat for the amount of coal they used. The tree was white hot and transformed a lot of pollutants. But is it more efficient than electric resistance heating. Granted it will be cheaper, but does it add to the global warming and pollution problems.

[madokie]

22. burning wood pellets is carbon neutral,

clean environmental wise too.

[OKIsItJustMe]

26. I don't see where that necessarily follows (i.e. that burning wood pellets is "carbon neutral")

We'll neglect the question of "black carbon" for the moment. (The production of "black carbon" does not mean it's not "carbon neutral" just that it might not be "global warming neutral" if you will.)


How did those trees become pellets? (I'm guessing there were some milling machines involved.)

How did those pellets come to be at your home? (I'm guessing there was a truck of two, maybe a car involved.)

You see what I'm getting at here?


Growing trees in your own private "wood lot" which you cut down with a crosscut saw, and split with an axe and burn in a stove with a catalytic converter may come close to being "carbon neutral" (we'll neglect the fact that the metal used in the stove, the saw, the axe… were not carbon neutral, and that the trees drew carbon from the soil as well as from the air.)

I doubt that wood pellets come as close.

However, I'm also pretty confident that burning wood pellets is better than burning coal.

[madokie]

29. Ok my bad

burning wood pellets are about as close to carbon nuetral as we have. the tree takes in carbon while its growing that offsets the burning of it. so the fuel is carbon neutral but there is a small manufactrring plus transportation cost. As it stands today burning wood pellets is a responsible way to heat ones home. compared to the other options we have here.

making the pellets is done on the same machine that some animinals feed in made and they don't use a large amount of energy.

[.... callchet ....]

16. Commendable

My point is that because it is popular doe not make it right. Everything deserves examination to see past the promotions of the people making money from it. My point is that solar panels create heat. And my question is : Does it produce more heat than a battery powered vehicle. It is assumed that one central generating plant for electricity is more efficient than a generator in each house. Why would you assume that individual generators on each car are more efficient. And solar panels are generators. Look at large wind turbines. They have three blades. Is it because you need more turbines with three blades to produce the same amount of power and therefore sell more turbines. I can find no valid proof for the three blades from the information available on the internet. What do you mean by carbon neutral heat? Something may be cheaper, but it may not be less polutting.

[madokie]

20. I doubt that the heat increase from a solar panel is any more than what would normally

hit the earth anyway. I don't think that is a valid reason to question the use of them either, but that just may be me.

carbon neutral heat I speak of is using an other wise waste product, wood sawdust pressed into pellets with no additives added in a super efficient heating apparatus.

I don't understand your question about the three blades. Keep looking and you will find your answers on why the use of three blades rather than ???? Probably won't find any useful info on a pro nuclear site if thats where your concentrating your searches for that info though.

I'm out of here for now, I have some work to do today

[.... callchet ....]

23. Three blades

Three blades versus 5 or 7 or whatever. I think that they use three blades because it takes more generators to produce power than using more blades. Then they can sell more generators.

[madokie]

24. You need to study on that more

be back in a while

[kristopher]

28. You're a certified member of the tinfoil hat club.

Two blades have too much of a tendency to place lateral stress on the rotor shaft during episodes of wind shear.
4 blades have a similar problem; also with 4 or more blades the large turbine TOWERS are not able to withstand the stress imposed by wind drag on so many blades.

Wind developers are seldom the same people as the wind turbine manufacturers. Your idea fails the basic common sense question of why a manufacturer would build an inferior product in the face of competition if that manufacturer wants to sell any turbines at all. Or are you saying that these manufacturers are acting as a monopoly and have all the academic wind power engineering and aerodynamic experts in their pocket with promises of huge funding for their research into the next generation of single blade turbines?

[.... callchet ....]

9. Energy

It takes the same amount of energy to move an object regardless of the source of the energy. Will solar cars produce more heat to the climate than electric cars powered by batteries charged by power plants ? Solar panels produce a lot of heat and generate a lot kilowatts, which is heat.Would it be safer for the planet to paint all cars white and use batteries charged by power plants.

[OKIsItJustMe]

27. Energy is not the problem

Why is Venus hellishly hot? Is it because of heavy industry? The indiscriminate use of solar panels? Is it because it's so much closer to the Sun?

No. It's because Venus' atmosphere traps heat.
http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Venus_Express/SEMF8BV7D7F_0.html
http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/venus/venus-greenhouse-effect/