NYT: Wind Energy Bumps Into Power Grid’s Limit

[GliderGuider]

Wind Energy Bumps Into Power Grid’s Limit

When the builders of the Maple Ridge Wind farm spent $320 million to put nearly 200 wind turbines in upstate New York, the idea was to get paid for producing electricity. But at times, regional electric lines have been so congested that Maple Ridge has been forced to shut down even with a brisk wind blowing.

The dirty secret of clean energy is that while generating it is getting easier, moving it to market is not.

The basic problem is that many transmission lines, and the connections between them, are simply too small for the amount of power companies would like to squeeze through them. The difficulty is most acute for long-distance transmission, but shows up at times even over distances of a few hundred miles.

The power grid is balkanized, with about 200,000 miles of power lines divided among 500 owners. Big transmission upgrades often involve multiple companies, many state governments and numerous permits. Every addition to the grid provokes fights with property owners.

These barriers mean that electrical generation is growing four times faster than transmission, according to federal figures.

The cost (GG: of upgrading the grid) would be high, $60 billion or more, but in theory could be spread across many years and tens of millions of electrical customers. However, in most states, rules used by public service commissions to evaluate transmission investments discourage multistate projects of this sort. In some states with low electric rates, elected officials fear that new lines will simply export their cheap power and drive rates up.

“We still have a third-world grid,” Mr. Richardson said, repeating a comment he has made several times. “With the federal government not investing, not setting good regulatory mechanisms, and basically taking a back seat on everything except drilling and fossil fuels, the grid has not been modernized, especially for wind energy.”

[madrchsod]

1. i read about this over 4 years ago in a trade magazine

the alarm bells have been ringing for years but there is no cohesive plan from the federal government on rules,regulations,and tax/investment incentives. we are paying the price for 8 years of neglect

[thunder rising]

2. hmmm..those lines are loaded with power purchased from where? Looks like a regulatory problem

since the pool or owners are shutting out the wind generated power.

[zeemike]

3. The solution seems simple to me

But I am no expert.
Instead of big wind farms of 200 units in one place, smaller clusters spread out over the country.
But I guess big profits is what they are going for.

[GliderGuider]

4. The problem is that much of the country is useless for wind power generation.

The attractive locations are not uniformly distributed across the country, as the wind map below shows:

[zeemike]

9. I think it is a mater of the glass half full or half empty

I see large areas of the country that could produce power for free, (that is, free in terms of the burning of fuels)
And many of them are near populated parts of the country close to where the energy is used.

[JohnWxy]

14. Actually, one of the areas of greatest power potential is close to the greatest population centers -

The map provided doesn't really show it but - Offshore wind potential is huge. And off the East coast it's close to nearly one-fifth of our population.

There is as much wind power potential (900,000 megawatts) off our coasts as the current capacity of all power plants in the United States combined, according to a new report entitled "A Framework for Offshore Wind Energy Development in the United States", sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy, Massachusetts Technology Collaborative, and General Electric. The Framework report finds the greatest wind power potential offshore the highly-populated urban coastal areas of the northeast and it recognizes the roles of Cape Wind and the Long Island offshore wind project in creating the momentum to develop offshore wind power in the United States.
~~
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“Most of the total potential offshore wind resources exist relatively close to major urban load centers, where high energy costs prevail and where opportunities for wind development on land are limited. This is especially true in the densely populated Northeast, where nearly one-fifth of that national populations lives on less than 2% of the total land area.


Offshore wind energy is also an attractive option for the Northeast because slightly more than half the country’s offshore wind potential is located off the New England and Mid-Atlantic coasts, where water depths generally deepen gradually with distance from shore. This attribute allows for the initial development of offshore wind in relatively shallow waters followed by a transition to deeper waters further for shore as the technology is advanced.”
(more)

New Report: Offshore Wind Could Power Entire U.S.

But it's true, getting power from good wind locations (like the plains states) is going to require Federal involvement to iron out differences between states in regulations governing transmission lines.

Another development which will help in intermittent power generation (say involving more localized power generation) is power storage technologies such as that offered by www.VRBpower.com

"The VRB Energy Storage System (VRB-ESS) is an electrical energy storage system based on the patented vanadium-based redox regenerative fuel cell that converts chemical energy into electrical energy. Energy is stored chemically in different ionic forms of vanadium in a dilute sulphuric acid electrolyte. The electrolyte is pumped from separate plastic storage tanks into flow cells across a proton exchange membrane (PEM) where one form of electrolyte is electrochemically oxidized and the other is electrochemically reduced. This creates a current that is collected by electrodes and made available to an external circuit. The reaction is reversible allowing the battery to be charged, discharged and recharged."

this system is available now and is reasonable in cost. http://www.vrbpower.com/applications/projects.html

[Tesha]

5. You're generally correct with one small "gotcha"

Not every place is windy enough for wind farms to be economical. And
even in windy places, wind power is intermittent so you still need "the
grid" to feed power in and out of that region.

Localized generation is certainly a worthy goal. But a few tens of thousands
of miles of HVDC transmission lines would be a big help in really rolling
out renewable energy nationwide (and from a variety of sources).

Tesha

[groovedaddy]

6. What about the wind/solar combination? When it's cloudy, it's usually windy

Windless days are usually days with sunshine. Combined with hydro-electric and geothermal, shouldn't we be "good to go?"

[zeemike]

8. What are you trying to do shut down the coal mines?

It makes sense to me.

[zeemike]

7. And you are also generally correct with a small gotcha

If you have 200 wind generators in one place and that one place has no wind, then all are not producing.
And you have the problems of transmission losses if you have them all clumped up in one spot and have to transmit the energy 5 miles you have big losses, compared to small losses is shorter transmission.

[kristopher]

10. The transmission losses are minor compared to the quality of the resource

The rate of increase in power contained in the wind isn't linear.

If a given wind turbine produces X watts in a 10mph wind, it doesn't produce 2X that wattage in 20 mph wind; no, a doubling of wind speed produces 8X the power.

Transmission has been severely and negatively affected by the fragmented (balkanization in the OP) nature of our unbundled system. The main problem is that if an area needs more power there are two ways to get it, one is to build new generation in the area that needs the power and the other is to string new transmission to pipe the power in. Of the two building new generation is usually quicker. So companies are reluctant to invest in making plans to build transmission because there is no guarantee that somewhere along the way, someone will not build a power plant at the end point and negate the need for the line.

It is one of the strongest arguments for stronger central control of the grid - and another reason to vote for a Dem legislature and executive.

[zeemike]

11. I am not against improving the grid.

But what I am saying is planing to put this wind and solar diversely near where it will be used thus making the problems of the grid less.
Instead of large clusters of windmills spread them out by renting farm land and such and giving some of that money to small independent farmers and land owners instead of large energy corporations.

[kristopher]

12. Its a benefit cost calculation...

I could use solar here (and will when the price drops a little) but I can't use wind on my property - there isn't enough to justify buying a turbine. However, there is enough wind offshore to power several hundred miles inland. Large turbines have to be spaced about a half mile apart, and in developed farming areas, if the wind resource is good, it works out well to lease 5% of a farmer's land and do as you describe. But other areas might be too urban or not windy enough.

It is a problem that needs to be worked on from both ends - I think we agree on that.

[zeemike]

13. Absolutely and I hope it will.

And off shore is where the populace is.

[Tesha]

16. At a megavolt, transmission line losses are pretty small.

A lot of New England's power comes from James Bay, Quebec,
more than 1,000 kilometers away if memory serves. And HVDC
power transmission provides much greater "system stability"
than equivalent 60-Hz transmission.

When it comes to electrical transmission, 5 miles is *NOTHING*.

Tesha

[kristopher]

15. One more point

The instance in the OP is rather unusual. Permitting in most projects takes into account the ability of local transmission to get the goods to the market. A much more accurate story behind that headline would tell of a wind farm that wasn't built because of the lack of transmission - there are many many examples of that one but I guess no one writes about them.