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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:07 AM
Original message
Where Has All the Water Gone?
from The American Prospect:



Where Has All the Water Gone?

The world's water crisis poses grave threats to our survival. Can we change course?

Maude Barlow | June 12, 2008



Three scenarios collude toward disaster. Scenario one: The world is running out of freshwater. It is not just a question of finding the money to hook up the 2 billion people living in water-stressed regions of our world. Humanity is polluting, diverting, and depleting the Earth's finite water resources at a dangerous and steadily increasing rate. The abuse and displacement of water is the ground-level equivalent of greenhouse-gas emissions and likely as great a cause of climate change.

Scenario two: Every day more and more people are living without access to clean water. As the ecological crisis deepens, so too does the human crisis. More children are killed by dirty water than by war, malaria, HIV/AIDS, and traffic accidents combined. The global water crisis has become a powerful symbol of the growing inequality in our world. While the wealthy enjoy boutique water at any time, millions of poor people have access only to contaminated water from local rivers and wells.

Scenario three: A powerful corporate water cartel has emerged to seize control of every aspect of water for its own profit. Corporations deliver drinking water and take away wastewater; corporations put massive amounts of water in plastic bottles and sell it to us at exorbitant prices; corporations are building sophisticated new technologies to recycle our dirty water and sell it back to us; corporations extract and move water by huge pipelines from watersheds and aquifers to sell to big cities and industries; corporations buy, store, and trade water on the open market, like running shoes. Most important, corporations want governments to deregulate the water sector and allow the market to set water policy. Every day, they get closer to that goal. Scenario three deepens the crises now unfolding in scenarios one and two.

Imagine a world in 20 years in which no substantive progress has been made to provide basic water services in the Third World; or to create laws to protect source water and force industry and industrial agriculture to stop polluting water systems; or to curb the mass movement of water by pipeline, tanker, and other diversions, which will have created huge new swaths of desert.

Desalination plants will ring the world's oceans, many of them run by nuclear power; corporate-controlled nanotechnology will clean up sewage water and sell it to private utilities, which will in turn sell it back to us at a huge profit; the rich will drink only bottled water found in the few remaining uncontaminated parts of the world or sucked from the clouds by corporate-controlled machines, while the poor will die in increasing numbers from a lack of water. ......(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=where_has_all_the_water_gone



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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Iowa
:nuke:
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. The guy who invented the Segway...
...Dean Kamen, also invented a water vapor compression distiller machine that will purify 1,000 liters in a day.

He was also a guest on The Colbert Report.

Weird magazine has a complete article about it http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/03/colbert-and-kam.html">here
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. What an awesome design!
And the 2nd part of the sustainable food production equation is met!

Obviously EMC2 fusion for raw energy

This for the water needed.

Now we just need the final part which is effective and cheap building material. Some kind of bioplastic I guess. Needs to be able to insulate VERY well!
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. He has a webpage...
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 10:23 AM by ColbertWatcher
...maybe you can check it out and get them to throw money at you?

LOL!

Here is the link to his site, DEKA.
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. LoL I am not designing the revolution in farming.
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 10:32 AM by Zachstar
But others are. And with the right technology and education we can easily maintain 9-10 billion people at stable levels.

Remember that education means less pregnancies. And as population grows and work gets more specialized. Wanting to have a baby will be lower and lower on the list.

Hey I like kids as well but not if they are basically raised by a nanny or babysitter.


--------------

That site is pretty bare but ill see what I can learn from it

---------------
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. 9 billion people stress every resource on the planet.
Energy will be the least of our worries, water and food will be first.
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Look at the above links for solution to the water problem.
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 09:53 AM by Zachstar
And believe it or not the problems we are having are ALL due to Transportation costs via energy.

You make energy able to get and transportation becomes less of a problem and you can sustain 9 billion people.

And 9 billion is going to happen anyway. It will be atleast a decade before education and development efforts will seriously slow the rate of births in developing nations. And by that time due to other factors the population will have grown greatly.

Keep in mind just in the US when the troops come home we are going to have a new baby spree going on. Like it or not its going to happen. Tho obviously not at the severe rate of WW2.

Once energy prices drop the first reaction is a whole bunch of new families. Keep in mind many are not having babies due to current budget problems. And security of jobs is very low. That changes when say fusion goes online.

BTW at current rates of Oil use growth there is no middle ground here. we are going to deal with decades of depression or the much more likely scenario of a few years of depression followed by a slew of new energy restoring growth to the economy.

Simply put there is whole lot of kids on the way. We need to accept and deal with it.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think it's the other way around.
Energy has led to technological advances, greater population growth, hence, greater demand on all resources.

Kamen's water purifier is just a small solution to a big problem.

destruction of natural habitat's
deforestation
salinization of soil
depletion of mineral's such as phosphate's ( fertilizer)
fossil fuel is already a limited and perhaps past peak resource
food supplies
potbale water
water for irrigation


We have damned up nearly every river in the world by now--and we will not be able to irrigate ourselves out of fresh water shortage.

My view is in line with this documentary: Crude Impact

http://www.crudeimpact.com/page.asp?content_id=9585
Crude Impact is an award-winning documentary film which Chris Vernon of TheOilDrum.com called " a terrific film... the best documentary I have seen on the subject." This feature film explores the interconnection between human domination of the planet, and the discovery and use of oil.

yeah, more people are on the way--as we write this more are popping out.

"And 9 billion is going to happen anyway. It will be at least a decade before education and development efforts will seriously slow the rate of births in developing nations. And by that time due to other factors the population will have grown greatly."

Really... I doubt it. is there any evidence of trends of reduced birth rate and education and development efforts in third world nations to empower and educate women and to decrease birth rate? Link would be appreciated.


It's not the 125,000 returning soldiers from Iraq that will make a dent--that is not analogous to the several million men returning after WWII.

It is the growth of population in third world nations and our perpetual corporate led frenzy for the economic holy grail: "growth...growth...growth.." In order to maintain quest for corporate growth you need cheap labor and large, new, emerging markets.

The root problem is population growth and I agree- it's here to stay- it's an unpopular topic- there is no will on the right or left to change things- and we as a species are unsustainable.

This is an important topic and I am pleased we are at least giving it a whirl.




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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. some nuggets to chew on for discussion:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/IndividualItemPages/CrudeImpact.html

Review from The Oil Drum:

>>I was particularly impressed with the early linking of fossil fuels with population expansion, equating a species' evolutionary successes with its ability to extract energy from the environment. This is one of the first points the film makes, establishing the historic importance of fossil fuels and oil in particular. Food is highlighted as a critical use of oil, repeating the 10:1 energy ratio often quoted and that fossil fuels allow more energy to be used in the production of food than the food itself contains adding that for any other organism this spells extinction.<<

.........
http://crudeimpact.semkhor.com/page.asp?content_id=9651

The world's population has exploded in the last hundred years, in great part due to the development of fossil fuels and the subsequent growth of modern agricultural practices and mass food production. As a result, we are straining all of the Earth's resources and crowding out all other species. This massive human population growth may be the single most powerful impact that fossil fuels have had on the planet. The only fair and proven solution to population growth lies in the empowerment of women. It has been shown that when women are given social, political and economic power, population stabilizes and may even decrease.

.........
http://crudeimpact.semkhor.com/page.asp?content_id=9650
The extraction and production of oil often wreaks havoc on the lives of those who live in its midst and in its wake.

In many oil-producing less economically developed nations, indigenous people are forced to live in cancer zones where the land and the water are heavily contaminated with toxins. And in these smaller, underdeveloped countries, oil extraction has often been supported by regimes with poor human rights records, known for their corruption and abuse of civil liberties. As oil production increases, often the poverty level of regular citizens and indigenous peoples increases as well. These people rarely benefit from the wealth extracted from the land on which they live.

............
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_resources
Water resources are sources of water that are useful or potentially useful to humans. Uses of water include agricultural, industrial, household, recreational and environmental activities. Virtually all of these human uses require fresh water. 97.5% of water on the Earth is salt water, leaving only 2.5% as fresh water of which over two thirds is frozen in glaciers and polar ice caps. The remaining unfrozen freshwater is mainly found as groundwater, with only a small fraction present above ground or in the air.<1> Fresh water is a renewable resource, yet the world's supply of clean, fresh water is steadily decreasing. Water demand already exceeds supply in many parts of the world, and as world population continues to rise at an unprecedented rate, many more areas are expected to experience this imbalance in the near future




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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. We will not have to worry about soil outside of corn other large plant crops.
Because hydroponics and vertical growing are growing by leaps and bounds. Those methods mean a GREAT deal more food grown per acre and on top of that with energy input (From fusion to power LEDs for example) They can be built into cities. So that rooms in buildings can be used to partially feed the people in the building. (Not to mention the health benefits from not having to rely on a freekin ton of side crap they use to remove bugs and unwanted crops.

And just curious what makes you think education will NOT lead to declining birth rates? Right now women in many 3rd world countries are viewed as property. Baby makers because of lack of ability to effectively use what they have. Its the same system we had before tractors changed the farming landscape. Poor people having many children to be able to grow a large area.

Education changes that. Women over there can learn that they do not have to live their life as baby makers. That they can fight off the men who try to rape them. So that the mothers can keep their daughters from being mutilated by cultural ideals in some areas that state that women are not to be anything but tools.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. "with the right technology and education we can easily maintain 9-10 billion people"
"at stable levels"

What's your definition of stable?

Easily maintain? Easily? You think we can easily do something with 9-10 billion people on the planet? Easily?

Who will be easily maintaining 9-10 billion people? Obviously you won't, since you're not even designing the revolution in farming. Easily maintaining 9-10 billion people will probably be a specialized career, which means each person will have even less control over their own life, at an ever earlier age, lasting through later and later in life.

You did say easily, right? And at stable levels no less. Whatever the hell that means, since there is no such thing as a stable state to life. Everything is constantly changing, and adapting, and evolving relative to everything else.

Easily maintain 9-10 billion people at stable levels! With the right technology and education. Who gets to define what the right technology and education are? You figure some of the 9-10 billion people might have a different thought as to what the right anything is.

Easily. 9-10 billion. Stable.

If it's easy with 9-10 billion, it should be easier with 6.5 billion. What is someone waiting for?
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Its going to 9 billion regardless. If you have a better idea POST IT
Till then calm down on the crap please.

And remember any talk of population reduction is the elephant in the room.. Thank you.

on its current growth trajectory, is expected to reach nearly 9 billion by the year 2042


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population


--------

I believe we can do it. I believe that it is going to happen and we mise well face it and start working to minimize the impact instead of moaning and crying because more habitat will be destroyed. More animals will go extinct. And yes the world fisheries are collapsing.

DEAL WITH IT!
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I don't have a better idea, nor do I think we won't reach that number
But I'm not the one who said it was going to be easy.

We could manage to do some global plan with 9-10 billion people, but none of it will include anything easy, and none of it will include minimizing impact.

I would just like to know what you mean by easily.
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Fusion (Or another cheap source of couse) Easy being removal of part of the main problems currently.
So compared with dealing with 6.5 billion today. 9 billion of tomorrow will be easy in comparison.

Now I know what is coming next. "Now what makes you think zackster that we wont go to 12 billion in 2050 with this uber power source"

Well nothing is certain but with the empowering of women in 3rd world nations with education and tools they will not be so hasty to have children. And the men who rape and mutilate them will be educated on the consequences of their actions. (Hunted down and arrested or Mob Justice)
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Energy was THE problem of the past...it's now too many people! Us. :)
“Obviously EMC2 fusion for raw energy”

What is that? What the heck is EMC2??

Are you talking about E=MC^2?

If you are, then please note that uranium is a limited resource as well.

How many nuclear power plants will we need to meet the world’s energy demand?
How long to build them?
How will that help with mass transport?

Who in the third world is going to fund nuclear energy?

.............

“Because hydroponics and vertical growing are growing by leaps and bounds. Those methods mean a GREAT deal more food grown per acre and on top of that with energy input (From fusion to power LEDs for example)”

How about some data about hydroponic yield?
Cost?
Water requirement?
Where will the water come from?

...............
“No one is arguing that: And just curious what makes you think education will NOT lead to declining birth rates? Right now women in many 3rd world countries are viewed as property. Baby makers because of lack of ability to effectively use what they have. Its the same system we had before tractors changed the farming landscape. Poor people having many children to be able to grow a large area.”

True. Now, is anything changing in the third world? Is there any real political will in those parts of the world, to educate women, empower them and to do so, partly in order to decrease birth rates?

...........


“And with the right technology and education we can easily maintain 9-10 billion people at stable levels.”

Show me one scientific study that tells us that with the right technology and education we can easily maintain 9-10 billion people at stable levels.

What does stable mean? That population will stay at 9 billion? Suddenly, in 2045, women will then become educated, empowered and have control over their reproduction, but not a second before?

................

“Its going to 9 billion regardless.”
That’s true.


“If you have a better idea POST IT
Till then calm down on the crap please.”

You mean in order to satisfy your criteria to have a discussion, we need to have the solution to the world’s major problem?

Otherwise our opinions are crap? Or are ideas that don’t agree with yours just the ones that are crap?

Because I don’t see the f*cking reason for calling other people’s ideas crap.

Who are you to call my ideas crap?

The only one writing in caps here is you–take your own advice and chill.
..............

“And remember any talk of population reduction is the elephant in the room.. Thank you.”

What are you getting at? Your point?
...........

“On its current growth trajectory, is expected to reach nearly 9 billion by the year 2042

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Yeah, so maybe we should be talking about the impact of population and not pie in the sky technologic cure alls?


--------

“I believe we can do it. “

Show me..some links? BTW- science and these topics may be a matter of “belief” for you– I’d rather not hear your belief’s and see you back up something with facts.
.............

“I believe that it is going to happen and we mise well face it and start working to minimize the impact instead of moaning and crying because more habitat will be destroyed.”

Hey this is starting to sound like a RW screed- any minute now I expect to be called a tree hugger! LMAO.

The mass die offs due to man’s encroachment is something to worry about... or if you prefer...moan and cry..I prefer to try and discuss it.

Habitat destruction is more than just the loss of scenery and cute animals–despite RW propaganda, they are sentinels to the over all health of this planet. Everything is tied in, water, air.........well here you just said it>

“More animals will go extinct. And yes the world fisheries are collapsing...”
You didn’t want to cry and moan about the fishies and the panda’s?

“DEAL WITH IT!”

Once again, chill.

Deal with this...so far you haven’t said anything substantial that we didn’t already know.

The things you said that are allegedly new...such as, technology will save the world..you have not given us any scientific analysis of how.

In fact, other than ignoring population growth’s impact...you want to add more of the same old nostrum’s: technology to alleviate the mess technology got us into.

How about...not accepting the inevitable ballooning of population and having a real debate on a national and world level?









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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Sorry to clarify EMC2 Fusion is not Fission. Its this
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Ya I can see where this is going and Obviously I am wasting my time responding to you.
I had no intention of calling you a tree hugger BTW.

I have no will to debate ideological crap It is rather disgusting that people talking about energy being the problem rather than the solution. It is almost like some would rather clean fusion not happen.

And that therefore ends it. I refuse to debate the very worth of a large supply of clean energy while children continue to suffer. Just not going to do it. I'm not going to post (Or read BTW) scientific articles I'm not going to post other's Op-Eds about it for there is no discussion to be had about it in my view. If you don't like it may I suggest giving your car away for free, switching the circuit breaker to the off position. Turn off the water and gas supply and try to live a year like many on earth currently have to do...
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I had a hunch you would not want to back up your ideas.
It sure sounds like you love fussion or fission or what ever you imagine it to be.

It also sounds a lot like that climate change denier, Bjorn Lomberg,the darling of the anti-climate change right:

"The Skeptical Environmentalist, Bjørn Lomborg argues that, because of the falling rate of population growth in some parts of the world and because of new science and technologies, there is little problem with overpopulation. Several rebuttals<25> of these arguments incited an equally defensive response by Lomborg." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation

And his followers..who think..gee...we just need to spread demoracy ( by the point of a gun if need be...viz a viz Iraq) and the evironment
will take care of itself because people in democracies are all people of good will.

"Goklansy( supporting Lomborg) stated "I am no more convinced than he is about the inevitability of progress" and that the book had stated "a democratic society, because it has the political means to do so, will translate its desire for a cleaner environment into laws, either because cleanup is not voluntary or rapid enough, or because of sheer symbolism. The wealthier such a society, the more affordable -- and more demanding -- its laws." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation


.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skeptical_Environmentalist
>>The Skeptical Environmentalist: Measuring the Real State of the World (Danish: Verdens Sande Tilstand, literal translation: The Real State of the World) is a controversial book by Danish environmentalist author Bjørn Lomborg, which argues that claims on certain aspects of global warming, overpopulation, declining energy resources, deforestation, species loss, water shortages, and a variety of other global environmental issues are unsupported by analysis of the relevant data.

Concerning energy, Lomborg asserts that oil is not being depleted as fast as is claimed, and that improvements of technology will provide us with fossil fuels for a long time. Lomborg also asserts that many alternatives already exist, and that with time they will replace fossil fuels as an energy source.

The January 2002 issue of Scientific American contains, under the heading "Misleading Math about the Earth", a set of essays by several scientists, claiming that Lomborg and The Skeptical Environmentalist misrepresent both scientific evidence and scientific opinion.

Lomborg has also been criticized (in, for example, a 2002 review in the UK journal Local Environment) for using straw man arguments, with charges that his "litany" of environmental doom-mongering does not accurately represent the mainstream views of the contemporary green movement.

These separately-written expert reviews unequivocally demonstrate that on closer inspection, Lomborg's book is seriously flawed and fails to meet basic standards of credible scientific analysis. The authors note how Lomborg consistently misuses, misrepresents or misinterprets data to greatly underestimate rates of species extinction, ignore evidence that billions of people lack access to clean water and sanitation, and minimize the extent and impacts of global warming due to the burning of fossil fuels and other human-caused emissions of heat-trapping gases. Time and again, these experts find that Lomborg's assertions and analyses are marred by flawed logic, inappropriate use of statistics and hidden value judgments. He uncritically and selectively cites literature—often not peer-reviewed—that supports his assertions, while ignoring or misinterpreting scientific evidence that does not. His consistently flawed use of scientific data is, in Peter Gleick's words "unexpected and disturbing in a statistician".<<

..........
"It is rather disgusting that people talking about energy being the problem rather than the solution. It is almost like some would rather clean fusion not happen."

Huh? WTF? Energy is part of the problem! It has given mankind the power to alter the natural world in such a way that in the last hundred years we have affected more around us, by our own hands, than any other species, and we rank right up there with major naturwal disasters.

........

What is truly disgusting is pushing an agenda for one type of energy at the expense of looking at all elements of the problem facing our natural world, starting off with US!

Some it seems, would have us building nuclear power plants willy nilly as the next stop gap, until uranium runs out, or more likely the water to cool the plant runs out.

.......

I guess the probelm with the environment is simply the wrong type of investment--it's a market problem. :sarcasm:







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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. I notice you still have your power on.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. My next question would be applicable with 6.5, 9, or 12 billion people
You plan on having a planet in this scenario correct?

"main problems currently"

"cheap source"

I'd say the main problem is a cheap source of energy. The cheaper the source, the more central the problem.

Sake of argument, let's say the implementation of this idea(whatever the details might be be) is easy. If someone, or some group, doesn't go along, what happens?
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Im not going to debate with people who say the problem is cheap energy in general.
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 12:41 PM by Zachstar
Edit: Why waste my time. It will only end up the same way.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yeah, that does make it easy
Don't worry about it. I'm just an individual. The only debating that matters in this world is between governments and corporations, both of which require growth in all aspects of life(including population), both of which require cheap energy to not only survive but expand their power over people(you don't think cheap energy is for the freedom of people, do you?), and both of which don't stop engulfing the habitat(which is why they're as dominant as they are in our lives today).

The more we give, the easier it gets.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. got that right- cheap energy is an oxymoron n/t
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #28
38. I agree with Zackstar
Cheap energy IS desirable. I don't think fusion is something to hang our hats on yet, but I know that current renewable technology CAN provide the entire population of the planet with CHEAP energy.

Cheap energy doesn't mean that each person has a high energy budget, by the way. If the form we get the energy in is a liquid stored in a container it will have a different effect on culture than if it is gathered (more or less) locally and delivered in the form of electricity.

The determinant on population replacement rates is tied to the parental cost of having and raising children in comparison to the amount of material return those children provide the parents. Higher costs, lower return = equals fewer children. Complex technologically integrated societies with high levels of job specialization tend to have declining rates of population replacement. For example, the last time I checked, Japan was 1.7:2 and the US (exclusive of immigrant influx) was 1.9:2.


Accept what he says or not, Zackstar is probably pretty close to accurate in his predictions.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Wow- if we don't fall in line- we are a waste of your time?
You might have explained your hydroponic scheme.

Or how nuclear energy would solve the myriad of other problems associated with a population of 9 billion people.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. here's some safety facts about cheap nuclear energy>
Note: I am not saying no to nuclear energy but this is not the discussion to even being to start to evaluate the risk vs. benefits.

Besides- what caught my eye in this thread was water and that remains a major problem now, the lack if clean water, drinking water in the world today and which will be more of a problem over time as the population grows. I have been fed enough lies by the oil industry that I am not ready to hippity hoppity on board the next energy train while ingoring the facts of the big picture. Enough with the blue skies lies- we have the fix scenarios.

http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/nukes/chernob/rep02.html

Subject: Calendar of Nuclear Accidents and Events (Updated 21st March)
Calendar of Nuclear Accidents
Below is a calendar that shows the threat that humanity faces from the atom bomb and the nuclear fuel cycle. This calendar gives some examples of the everyday nuclear incidents that have occurred all over the world. It demonstrates how technological failures coupled with human error risk public health and the environment on an almost daily basis.
January
1-1992: Four tons of heavy water spilt at Rajasthan nuclear power plant (India)
2-1993: Leak at Kozloduy nuclear power plant, release of radioactive steam (Bulgaria)
3-1961: Explosion in reactor Idaho Falls (USA); three people killed
4-1965: 6.5 kg plutonium sludge released from Savannah River reprocessing plant (USA)
5-1976: Two workers killed by radioactive carbon dioxide at Bohunice nuclear power plant (Slovakia)
6-1981: Accident at La Hague reprocessing plant (France)
7-1974: Explosion at Leningrad nuclear power plant (Russia)
8-1975: Release of radioactivity from Mihama nuclear power plant (Japan)
9-1993: Radioactive release from leaking fuel rods at Perry nuclear power plant (USA)
10-1987: Nuclear transport accident in the UK
11-1985: In Heilbronn (Germany), a Pershing-II nuclear missile catches fire, three people killed
12-1960: Technicians trying to restart a reactor at Savannah River reprocessing plant almost send it out of control (USA)
13-1964: A B-52 plane crashes with nuclear bombs on board in Maryland (USA)
14-1969: USS Enterprise, nuclear aircraft-carrier, suffers fires and explosions, killing 28 crew members
15-
16-1990: Loss of offsite power with multiple equipment failures at Dresden nuclear power plant (USA)
17-1966: A B-52 plane crashes in Spain causing plutonium contamination
18-1989: Eight workers are contaminated at Savannah River reprocessing plant (USA)
19-1992: Radioactive leak, reactor shut-down at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
20-1993: Technical failure at Paluel causes subcooling accident (France)
21-1969: Technical failure at Swiss experimental nuclear reactor causes release of radioactive water
22-1992: Technical failure in shut-down system at Balakovo nuclear power plant (Russia)
23- 1978: Radioactive helium released from Colorado reactor (USA)
24-1978: Soviet nuclear-powered satellite Cosmos-954 crashes in Canada
25-1982: Steam generator ruptures at R.E. Ginna nuclear power plant (USA)
26-1988: Dangerous temperature rise in a nuclear reactor on board a British submarine
27-1992: Leak causes a shut-down at Darlington nuclear power plant (Canada)
28-1990: Pump failure during a shut-down at Gravelines nuclear power plant (France)
29-1961: A B-52 plane carrying nuclear bombs crashes, the bombs do not explode but three of the eight crew members are killed (USA)
30-
31 -1996: Leakage of radiation due to human error and technical failure at Dimitrovgrad nuclear research centre (Russia)

February
1-1982: Release of 100 cubic metres of radioactive water from Salem nuclear power plant (USA)
2-1993: Breakdown of cooling system for two hours at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
3-1992: Failure of cooling pumps at Kozloduy nuclear power plant (Bulgaria)
4-
5-1986: "Amber alert" (indicating an emergency in one building and a threat to the rest of the plant)" at Sellafield reprocessing plant, UK
6-1974: Explosion and radiation leak at Leningrad nuclear power plant, three people killed (Russia)
7-
8-1991: Release of radioactivity from Fukui nuclear power plant (Japan)
9-1991: Rupture of steam generator pipe causes release of radioactivity at Mihama nuclear power plant (Japan)
10-1992: Technical failure in pump system at Zaporozhe nuclear power plant (Ukraine)
11-1986: Release of 13 tonnes of radioactive carbon dioxide from Transfynydd nuclear power plant (UK)
12-1968: A B-52 plane with nuclear bombs on board crashes near Toronto (Canada)
13-1960: First French nuclear test
14-
15-1993: Spillage of 18,000 litres of heavy water at Darlington nuclear power plant (Canada)
16-1973: Container filled with Cobalt-60 lost in the North Sea
17-1984: Accident at Kozloduy nuclear power plant (Bulgaria)
18-1988: Report of core melt in the nuclear reactor of the Soviet Ice-Breaker "Rossiya"
19-1986: Three workers suffer contamination at the Sellafield reprocessing plant (UK)
20-1990: Eight employees receive radiation exposure at Point Lepreau (Canada)
21-1976: Accident at Bohunice nuclear power plant (Slovakia)
22-1993: High pressure steam accident kills one worker and injures two others at Fukushima nuclear power plant (Japan)
23-1981: Accidental explosion of a Pershing-II missile in Germany
24-1972: Accident on board Soviet nuclear-powered submarine causes vessel to lose all power
25-1983: Failure of automatic shut-down at Salem nuclear power plant (USA)
26-1988: Increased levels of radioactivity at Bohunice nuclear power plant (Slovakia)
27-1983: Nuclear powered satellite falls into the Indian Ocean
28-1992: Software failure in the control computer at Embalse nuclear power plant (Argentina)
March
1-1954: Fall-out of US nuclear weapons test "Bravo" contaminates the inhabitants of the Pacific island of Rongelap.
2-1994: Breakdown of cooling system at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
3-1992: Technical failure at Novovoronezh nuclear power plant (Russia)
4-1977: Kozloduy nuclear power plant affected by an earthquake (Bulgaria)
5-
6-1985: Emergency cooling system out of order at the Grohnde nuclear power plant (Germany)
7-
8-1972: Radioactive water has to be pumped out of the Indian Point nuclear power plant (USA)
9-1992: Fire at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
10-1956: A B-47 plane disappears with nuclear weapons on board in the Atlantic Ocean
11-1958: A B-47 plane loses nuclear bomb in South Carolina (USA)
12-1981: Tornado washes nuclear waste from Moruroa into the lagoon (Pacific)
13-1986: US nuclear submarine runs aground and suffers damage
14-1961: A B-52 plane crashes with nuclear bombs on board in California (USA)
15-1989: Technical failure of fuel roads at Pickering nuclear power plant (Canada)
16-
17-1984: Emergency cooling system at San Onofere nuclear power plant fails (USA)
18-1987: Fire and release of radioactivity at Australian nuclear research facility
19-
20-1977: Temperature increase at Rancho Seco nuclear power plant (USA)
21-1984: Soviet nuclear submarine collides with US aircraft carrier "Kitty Hawk"
22-1975: Fire in reactor at Browns Ferry nuclear power plant (USA)
23-
24-1992: Incident with radiation leakage, shut-down of reactor at Leningrad nuclear power plant (Russia)
25-1992: Technical failure at Leningrad nuclear power plant (Russia)
26-1991: Refuelling accident at Wuergassen nuclear power plant (Germany)
27-
28-1979: Partial core meltdown at Three Mile Island nuclear power plant (USA)
29-1992: Failure of shut-down system at Ignalina nuclear power plant (Lithuania)
30-
31-1992: Automatic shut-down due to failure of pump system at Kalinin nuclear power plant (Russia)

April
1-1989: Control rod failure at Gravelines nuclear power plant (France)
2-1979: Two workers suffer radioactive contamination at Tokaimura nuclear complex (Japan)
3-1960: Melting of fuel elements cause a release of radioactivity at the Test Reactor at Waltz Mills (USA)
4-
5-
6-1993: Explosion at the Tomsk-7 nuclear complex (Russia)
7-1992: Failure of automatic shut-down system at Novovoronezh nuclear power plant (Russia)
8-1989: Soviet nuclear submarine "Komsomolets" sinks off Norway
9-1981: US-nuclear submarine "George Washington" crashes against a freighter ship
10-1963: US-nuclear submarine sinks with 123 crew members in the Atlantic
11-1950: A B-29 plane crashes in New Mexico, thirteen people killed.
12-1970: Soviet nuclear submarine sinks in the Atlantic
13-1979: Fire in the generator of the Baersbeck nuclear power plant (Sweden)
14-1970: Soviet nuclear submarine sinks with 52 crew members in Indian ocean
15-1983: Incident at Turkey Point nuclear power plant (USA)
16-1992: Technical failure of reactor shut-down system at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
17-1970: Incident involving a vehicle at a French nuclear test site in the South Pacific causes a plutonium spillage into the ocean.
18-1992: Technical failure during refuelling at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
19-1984: Technical failure at Sequoyah nuclear power plant causes spillage of radioactive coolant water. (USA)
20-1973: Thousands of cubic meters of radioactive waste flow out of Hanford nuclear weapons complex (USA)
21-1964: US-satellite disperses 1.2.kg plutonium into the atmosphere.
22-1983: Reactor shut-down due to failure of fuel rods at Kursk nuclear power plant (Russia)
23-1991: Lost of offsite power cause technical failure at "Vermont Yankee" nuclear submarine (USA)
24-
25-1990: Flooding of building due to increase of coolant level at Bohunice nuclear power plant (Slovakia)
26-1986: Explosion of reactor 4 at Chernobyl nuclear power plant; the worst civilian nuclear accident to date.
27-
28-1988: Release of 5000 Curies of tritium gas from the Bruyere le Chatel military nuclear complex (France)
29-1986: US-nuclear submarine "Atlanta" hits the ground off Gibralta
30-1992: Breakdown of cooling system at Novovoronezh nuclear power plant (Russia)
May
1-1992: Technical failure at Ignalina nuclear power plant (Lithuania)
2-1979: Technical fault at the Oyster Creek nuclear power plant triggers emergency shut-down (USA)
3-1974: Leakage at Hanford nuclear weapons complex (USA)
4-1986: Release of radiation from Hamm-Uentrop nuclear power plant (Germany)
5-1987: Pershing nuclear missile ends up in a ditch after a transport accident at Heilbronn (Germany)
6-1989: Fire of pump equipment at Bohunice nuclear power plant (Slovakia)
7-1992: Failure of emergency system at Smolensk nuclear power plant (Russia)
8-1964: First Chinese nuclear test
9-1992: Technical failure of cooling system at Hatch nuclear power plant (USA)
10-1965: Release of eight cubic metres of cooling water from Savannah River reprocessing plant (USA)
11-1969: Fire at Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant causes plutonium to spontaneously ignite. (USA)
12-1984: Uncontrolled power surge at Bohunice nuclear power plant (Slovakia)
13-1992: Tube leak causes a radioactive release of 12 Curies of radioactivity from Tarapur nuclear power station (India)
14-1986: The power lines to the Palo Verde nuclear power plant are sabotaged (USA)
15-
16-1992: Reactor shut-down at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
17-1984: Fire on board the US-nuclear submarine "Guitarro"
18-1968: Accident during launch of US satellite, radioactive materials fall into ocean near Califiornia coast
19-
20-1974: First Indian nuclear test
21-1968: US-nuclear submarine "Scorpion" sinks off the Acores, 99 people die
22-1957: Human error causes a B-36 plane to release a nuclear bomb in New Mexico
23-1958: Accident and release of radioactivity at the Chalk River experimental reactor (Canada)
24-1968: Incident on board of Soviet nuclear submarine "K- 27", 5 crew members killed by radiation release
25-
26-1990: During refuelling, five cubic meters of radioactive water spilled at the Fessenheim nuclear power plant (France)
27-1993: Reactor shut-down due to breakdown of cooling system at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
28-1970: Collision of the US-nuclear submarine "Daniel Boone"
29-
30-
31-
June
1-1991: Failure of core cooling system at Belleville nuclear power plant (France)
2-1992: Total failure of centralised control system at the Smolensk nuclear power plant (Russia)
3-1980: Computer fault causes full-scale alert for US Military Strategic Command
4-1989: Fire in the cables of the cooling pumps at the Bohunice nuclear power plant (Slovakia)
5-1989:
6-1994: Fire at Beloyarsk nuclear power plant (Russia)
7-1960: Fire in a BOMARC-rocket in New Jersey causes plutonium release into the atmosphere (USA)
8-1992: Failure of cooling system at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
9-1985: Malfunction in the cooling system at Davis Blesse nuclear power plant (USA)
10-1985: Collision of a British nuclear submarine off the coast of Florida (USA)
11-1989: Spent fuel element dropped in the storage pool and damaged at Kruemmel nuclear power plant (Germany)
12-
13-
14-
15-1992: Technical failure at Sizewell nuclear power plant (UK)
16-1988: Technical failure at Zorita nuclear power plant (Spain)
17-1967: First Chinese hydrogen nuclear bomb test
18-1978: Release of two tons of radioactive steam from Brunsbuettel nuclear power plant (Germany)
19-1992: Leak in pipe conducting sea water to cooling system at Leningrad nuclear power plant (Russia)
20-1985 Collision of two trucks carrying nuclear bombs in Scotland (UK)
21-
22-
23-1986: Twelve people receive `slight' plutonium contamination while inspecting a store room at Tokaimura nuclear complex (Japan)
24-1992: Technical failure of control system at Leningrad nuclear power plant (Russia)
25-
26-1989: Fire and reactor damage in a Soviet submarine
27-1985: Explosion and steam leakage killed 14 workers at Balakovo nuclear power plant (Russia)
28-
29-1991: Power limited due to error between actual and indicated power at Pickering nuclear power plant(Canada).
30-1983: Total loss of coolant at Embalse nuclear power plant (Argentina)
July
1-1983: Technical failure causes release of Iodine-131 from Phillipsburg nuclear power plant (Germany)
2-1966: French nuclear testing in the South Pacific begins 3-1981: Fire at North Anna nuclear power plant (USA)
4-1961: Incident on board of Soviet nuclear submarine "K- 19", radiation release kills 9 crew members
5-
6-1959: US plane carrying nuclear weapons crashes and catches on fire
7-
8-
9-1991: Flaw in cooling system at Wurgassen nuclear power plant (Russia)
10-1991: Leakage of radiation at Bilibino nuclear power plant (Russia)
11-
12-1993: Failure of control system at Susquehanna nuclear power plant (USA)
13-
14-1992: Reactor shut-down due to failure of cooling system at Novovoronezh nuclear power plant (Russia)
15-
16-1945: First explosion of a nuclear bomb ("Trinity") in New Mexico (USA)
17-1991: Reactor shut-down due to break of control system at Sendai nuclear power plant (Japan)
18-1991: Steam leakage causes reactor shut-down at Paks nuclear power plant (Hungary)
19-
20-1992: Leakage of radiation due to breakdown of cooling system at Ignalina nuclear power plant (Lithuania)
21-
22-1992: Two workers contaminated at Dampierre nuclear power plant (France)
23-
24-1989: Refuelling accident at Isar nuclear power plant (Germany)
25-1946: US nuclear test "Baker" causes unexpected plutonium contamination on target vessels
26-1992: Temperature rise in storage pool at Gravelines nuclear power plant (France)
27-1956: US plane crashes into nuclear ammunition storage in the UK
28-1957: US plane loses two nuclear bombs in the Atlantic
29-
30-1986: Human error causes the nuclear warhead to be knocked off a Pershing rocket (Germany)
31-1993: Refuelling machine malfunctions at the Wylfa nuclear power plant (UK)
August
1-1983: An engineer receives a fatal radiation dose at a research reactor in Argentina
2-1987: Elevated radiation level after Soviet nuclear test
3-1983: Argentinean engineer dies from radiation dose received two days earlier
4-
5-1950: B-29 plane with nuclear weapons on board crashes; 19 people killed (USA)
6-1945: Nuclear bomb dropped on the Japanese city of Hiroshima
7-
8-
9-1945: Nuclear bomb dropped on the Japanese city of Nagasaki
10-1985: Explosion on board a Soviet nuclear submarine
11-1988: Damage detected at Atucha nuclear power plant (Argentina)
12-
13-
14-1989: Instrumentation and control failure at Grand Gulf nuclear power plant (USA)
15-1992:
16-1991: Eight control rods show delays in emergency shut- down insertion time at Millstone Point nuclear power plant (USA)
17-1991: Automatic shut-down due to technical problems at Sendai nuclear power plant (Japan)
18-1953: First explosion of Soviet hydrogen bomb
19-1986: Flooding at the Cattenom nuclear power plant (France)
20-1974 Incident at Beznau nuclear power plant (Switzerland)
21-1980: Accident on board Soviet nuclear submarine, believed to kill at least nine crew members
22-1992: Failure of shut-down system at Novovoronezh nuclear power plant (Russia)
23-
24-
25-1984: French freighter sinks in the English Channel with 375 tonnes of uraniumhexafluoride on board
26-1989: Technical failure at Ignalina nuclear power plant (Lithuania)
27-1990: Cable fire causes loss of control of the position of control rods at Chernobyl nuclear power plant (Ukraine)
28-1992: Fire in electro-generator at St.Alban nuclear power plant (France)
29-1949: First explosion of Soviet atomic bomb
30-1985: Fire in a barrel of radioactive waste at Karlsruhe nuclear complex (Germany)
31-1985: Fire at Fukushima nuclear power plant during routine shut-down (Japan)
September
1-1993: Fire at Balakovo nuclear power plant (Russia)
2-
3-1974: Release of radioactive water at Los Alamos nuclear weapons Laboratory (USA)
4-1988: Fire at Perry nuclear power plant (USA)
5-1988: Fire at Ignalina nuclear power plant (Lithuania)
6-1991: Incident and steam leak during refueling at Barsebeck nuclear power plant (Sweden)
7-
8-
9-1989: Control rod failure at Olkiluoto nuclear power plant (Finland)
10-
11-1957: 15 kgs of plutonium catch fire at Rocky Flats nuclear weapons complex (USA)
12-1992: Leakage of radioactive water at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
13-1987: 249 people are contaminated in Brazil, due to handling discarded nuclear medical equipment, four people subsequently die
14-1991: Leakage at Kozloduy nuclear power plant (Bulgaria)
15-1986: Fire on board a US plane carrying nuclear weapons
16-1990: Superphenix Fast Breeder Reactor is closed down due to technical failures (France)
17-1988: Nuclear weapons convoy road accident kills one person (UK)
18-1988: Technical failure at Stade nuclear power plant (Germany)
19-1984: Collision of a Soviet nuclear submarine
20-1977: US-nuclear submarine "Ray" hits the sea-bed, three crew members are injured
21-1989: Manual shut-down of WNP nuclear power plant (USA)
22-1980: Pump failure causes accidental release of radioactive water at La Hague reprocessing plant (France)
23-1969: Radioactive contamination of atmosphere during the unsuccessful launch of a Soviet spaceship.
24-1973: 35 workers at the Sellafield reprocessing plant are contaminated following a technical failure (UK)
25-1955: First Soviet underwater nuclear explosion near Novaya Zemlya (Arctic Ocean)
26-
27-1974: Soviet nuclear-capable destroyer sinks in the Black Sea
28-1990: Cables for reactor control and protection system supply overheat at Bohunice nuclear power plant (Slovakia)
29-1957: Thousands of square miles contaminated by accident at the Chelyabinsk nuclear complex (Russia)
30-1990: Failure of reactor core cooling system at Palisades nuclear power plant (USA)

October
1-1983: Technical failure and human error cause accident at Blayas nuclear power plant(France)
2-1968: Leakage at La Hague reprocessing plant (France) 3-1952: First UK nuclear test
4-1981: Release of 300-times the normal discharge level of Iodine-131 at Sellafield reprocessing plant (UK)
5-1966: Partial core meltdown at the Fermi fast breeder reactor (USA)
6-1986: Soviet nuclear submarine sinks off the coast of Bermuda
7-1984: Emergency shut-down of Paks nuclear power plant (Hungary)
8-1985: Accidental radioactive release into the sea from Hinkley Point nuclear power station (UK)
9-1991: Technical failure at Yugno-Ukrainskaya nuclear power plant (Ukraine)
10-1957: Three tonnes of uranium catch fire at the Windscale reprocessing plant (now Sellafield UK)
11-1957: US nuclear bomber crashes in Florida and catches fire
12-
13-1977: Sea water runs into the cooling circuit of Hunterston nuclear power plant (UK)
14-1953: Fall-out from British nuclear test "Totem" contaminates Aborigines in the Australian desert
15-1988: French officials carry out an experiment to test the effects of releasing 7000 Curies of radioactivity
16-1964: First Chinese nuclear test
17-1969: Fuel elements melt at St Laurent des Eaux nuclear power plant (France)
18-1991: Technical failure at Zaporozhe nuclear power plant (Ukraine)
19-1991: Offsite power failure at Smolensk nuclear power plant (Russia)
20-
21-1991: Fire on board "Sceptre" nuclear submarine in Scotland
22-1993: Instrumentation and Control failure at Saint Alban nuclear power plant (France)
23-1989: Failure of core cooling system at Dresdan nuclear power plant (USA)
24-
25-1991: Failure of shut-down system during refuelling at Novovoronezh nuclear power plant (Russia)
26-1991: Incident during refueling at Vogtle nuclear power plant (USA)
27-1991: Technical failure of shut-down system at Zaporozhe nuclear power plant (Ukraine)
28-
29-1991: Technical failure causes automatic shut-down at Kalinin nuclear power plant (Russia)
30-1991:
31-1986: US-nuclear submarine "Augusta" involved in collision
November
1-1992: Cracks in cooling system equipment at Brunsbuttel nuclear power plant (Germany)
2-1982: Nuclear missile transporter crashes killing one person and injuring two others (Germany)
3-1990: Failure of core cooling equipment at Doel nuclear power plant (Belgium)
4-1970: Explosion on board a nuclear-capable US-destroyer kills two sailors
5-1967: UK nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine `HMS Repulse' runs aground 30 minutes after its launch
6-
7-1967: Release of radioactivity at Grenoble nuclear power plant (France)
8-
9-1955: Core meltdown at EBR fast breeder reactor (USA)
10-
11-1988: Accident during refueling on board of Soviet nuclear powered ice-breaker "Lenin"
12-1993: London Convention bans the dumping of nuclear waste into the sea
13-1974: Karen Silkwood, a worker at a US nuclear plant, dies mysteriously on her way to hand important documents to a Trade Union Official and a journalist
14-1989: Breakdown of fuel rod control system at Oconee nuclear power plant (USA)
15-1989: Fire on board US-nuclear submarine "Finback"
16-1983: Sellafield reprocessing plant discharges highly radioactive wastes directly into the sea (UK)
17-
18-1991: Reactor shut-down due to technical failure at Balakovo nuclear power plant (Russia)
19-1980: US nuclear-missile almost launched during a drill exercise.
20-1989: Fire in turbine equipment at Kozloduy nuclear power plant (Bulgaria)
21-
22-
23-1991: Leak of 190,000 litres of water from cooling system, reactor shut-down at Oconee nuclear power plant (USA)
24-1989: Technical failure nearly causes core meltdown at Greifswald nuclear power plant (Germany)
25-1991: Failure of cooling system causes automatic reactor shut-down at Kursk nuclear power plant (Russia)
26-1958: B-47 plane catches fire, destroying one nuclear weapon (USA)
27-1991: Disfunction of automatic shut-down system at Bilibino nuclear power plant (Russia)
28-1991: Failure of control system causes reactor shut- down at Kursk nuclear power plant (Russia)
29-1982: US nuclear submarine collides with US-destroyer
30-1975: 1.5 million Curies released from Leningrad nuclear power plant (Russia)

December
1-1991: Technical failure at Beloyarsk nuclear power plant (Russia)
2-1949: US experiment "Green Run" contaminates communities up to 70 miles away from the Hanford nuclear weapons complex (USA)
3-1988: Explosion at the Burghfield Atomic Weapons Establishment (UK)
4-1990: 2 workers irradiated during refuelling at Blayais nuclear power plant (France)
5-1965: Plane crashes with nuclear bombs on board off the coast of Japan
6-1991: Failure of control system during refuelling causes reactor shut-down at Smolensk nuclear power plant (Russia)
7-1991: Failure of cooling system at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
8-1995: Fire due to leakage of sodium coolant from Monju fast breeder reactor, Japanese nuclear industry attempts to cover up full extent of accident, reactor shut-down
9-1986: Explosion at Surry nuclear power plant, four people killed (USA).
10-1991: Failure of turbo-generator causes reactor shut- down at Balakovo nuclear power plant (Russia)
11-1991: Human error causes failure of automatic reactor shut-down equipment at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
12-1952: World's first major nuclear reactor disaster, Chalk River experimental reactor (Canada)
13-1988: Four of the eight emergency installations discovered out of order at Brokdorf nuclear power plant (Germany)
14-1991: Technical failure causes automatic shut-down at Balakovo nuclear power plant (Russia)
15-1991: Technical failure at Kalinin nuclear power plant (Russia)
16-1991: Technical failure at Kola nuclear power plant (Russia)
17-1987: Severe incident at Biblis nuclear power plant (Germany)
18-1984: Fire at Kalinin nuclear power plant (Russia)
19-1980: Plutonium transport accident in the USA
20-1990: Control element discovered damaged at Novovoronezh nuclear power plant (Russia)
21-1991: Radiation leakage at Kolskaya nuclear power plant (Russia)
22-1987: Accidental release of 50 tonnes of water from Atucha nuclear power plant (Argentina)
23-1988: Two control rods jammed at Blayais nuclear power plant (France)
24-1991: Reactor shut-down due to technical failure at Kalinin nuclear power plant (Russia)
25-1992: Radioactive water leakage at Beloyarsk nuclear power plant (Russia)
26-
27-1991: Automatic shut-down Balakovo nuclear power plant (Russia)
28-1990: Incident and radiation leakage at Leningrad nuclear power plant (Russia)
29-
30-1988: Reactor shut-down due to failure of control equipment at Pilgrim nuclear power plant (USA)
31-1978: Fire and loss of reactor control, 8 workers irradiated at Beloyarsk nuclear power plant (Russia)
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Are you really without education or are you trying to turn fusion into fission for a reason?
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 04:38 PM by Zachstar
I'd really love to know.

BTW LOL at quoting Greenpeace!
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Stick to Half Life 2 dude, or PM me when the first fusion reactor goes on line.
LMAO.

I'm taking my lead from your threads--after all bro--you posted this "stuff".

"Star stuff".

“Obviously EMC2 fusion for raw energy -Zachstar”

“Sorry to clarify EMC2 Fusion is not Fission.-_Zachstar”

“Fusion (Or another cheap source of couse) -Zachstar”

“And the 2nd part of the sustainable food production equation is met!
Obviously EMC2 fusion for raw energy
This for the water needed.-Zachstar”

What the heck are you trying to say? :LOL:
..........
Oh and the GreenPeace bit-- save the political ideology and show me where the data is wrong.

..........
http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/chapter13.html
Matter can be changed into energy. The world's most famous scientist, Albert Einstein, created the mathematical formula that explains this. It is:

E = m c 2

The word fission means to split apart. Inside the reactor of an atomic power plant, uranium atoms are split apart in a controlled chain reaction.

Another form of nuclear energy is called fusion. Fusion means joining smaller nuclei (the plural of nucleus) to make a larger nucleus. The sun uses nuclear fusion of hydrogen atoms into helium atoms. This gives off heat and light and other radiation.

Scientists have been working on controlling nuclear fusion for a long time, trying to make a fusion reactor to produce electricity. But they have been having trouble learning how to control the reaction in a contained space.

What's better about nuclear fusion is that it creates less radioactive material than fission, and its supply of fuel can last longer than the sun.

.....

and then ther's this,your contribution Dr. Freeman

EMC2 FUSION
DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION
Send your supporting contributions to:LMAO! Save your money bro.

....

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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. You are beyond belief.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Thank you! n/t
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Zachstar- I did find this about France and fusion for 2016>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#Fusion_reactors

Fusion reactors
While fusion power is not expected to be feasible for many more decades, France has shown promise to be a forerunner in the technology by winning the bid to host the ITER reactor in Cadarache. The ITER should start actual fusion around 2016.



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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. Fight back like the people of Bolivia did!
When a rightwing government sold the water system in Cochabamba, Bolivia, to Bechtel Corp., and Bechtel immediately started raising the price of water to the poorest of the poor--including charging the poor for collecting rainwater--the people of Cochbamba got organized and got uppity, and shut the city down with protests. They threw Bechtel Corp. out of their country, and elected Evo Morales as president--the first indigenous president of Bolivia (a largely indigenous country), and a key union organizer of the protests against corporate privatization of public services, U.S.-dominated "free trade" and ruinous World Bank/IMF policy, and the corrupt, murderous, failed U.S. "war on drugs" (war on poor coca leaf farmers--also the best food producers--to drive them from the land so that major drug lords and Monsanto et al can move in).

The indigenous and other leftists in South America are fighting back. And what about us privileged folk up here in the "land of the free/home of the brave"? Have we no fight left in us? Truly, we are an oppressed people--despite our relative prosperity--with special measures having been taken to disempower and demoralize us (the 'TRADE SECRET' code voting machines, for instance, and the relentless, 24/7 fascist propaganda and warmongering that we are subjected to), and we have lost the sense of community that still exists among the indigenous and poor populations of South America (which helps to overcome corporate media lies, with word-of-mouth communication, and solidarity in protest actions). But we do have a history of revolution, including a couple of hundred years of magnificent struggle for human and civil rights, for labor rights, for women's rights, for universal education, for "one person/one vote," for more equitable distribution of our country's wealth, for peace, for the rule of law, and for all of the progressive values of the Enlightenment, and against the "Robber Barons" and "organized money" (as FDR called it), and against fascism, nazism, racial and religious bigotry and other evils.

The struggle against the Corporate Rulers is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT, especially here in the U.S., the spawning ground for these multinational monsters. I won't minimize it. It is comparable to the struggle in Europe, culminating in the 18th century, against one thousand, five hundred years of multinational domination by the Roman Catholic Church, which put a tight cage around the human spirit. We are "Rome." That is the problem. We are at the heart of the "beast" that must be overthrown. That is why it is so difficult here, and that is why this revolution must happen here: The American people are potentially the most progressive force on earth. Our corporate rulers know this. They have turned corporate rule, warmongering and fascism into the very air we breathe. Our minds are "caged." It's hard to think of a society that is not ruled by these godawful, bloated, profiteering powers--Exxon Mobil, Bechtel, Halliburton, Enron, AT&T, Microsoft, Pfizer, Lockheed, Dyncorp, Blackwater, Monsanto, Time-Warner, Murdoch, Clear Channel, Fox News, Wal-Mart, Gap, Starbucks, MacDonalds, Citicorp, Bank of America, et al, and their Chinese and Saudi Arabian financiers.

And they are now turning us into the biggest "Banana Republic" of all. Maybe that will do it. These U.S.-spawned corporate powers don't give a fuck for the American people any more. We are just another country to be looted and enslaved. And maybe we will finally stand up for the human race and for the planet--and connect with our revolutionary tradition--and bust them up, pull their corporate charters, dismantle them and seize their assets for the common good, as we should have done a long time ago in the interest of truly "free" trade, which doesn't abide monopolies and monoliths.
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ElectricGrid Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. Uhh ever heard of the water cycle?
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Uh no..but I guess you didn't want to tell us. Thanks. uh. n/t
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Sources of fresh water
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_resources
Surface water

Lake Chungará and Parinacota volcano in northern ChileSurface water is water in a river, lake or fresh water wetland. Surface water is naturally replenished by precipitation and naturally lost through discharge to the oceans, evaporation, and sub-surface seepage.

Although the only natural input to any surface water system is precipitation within its watershed, the total quantity of water in that system at any given time is also dependent on many other factors. These factors include storage capacity in lakes, wetlands and artificial reservoirs, the permeability of the soil beneath these storage bodies, the runoff characteristics of the land in the watershed, the timing of the precipitation and local evaporation rates. All of these factors also affect the proportions of water lost.

Human activities can have a large impact on these factors. Humans often increase storage capacity by constructing reservoirs and decrease it by draining wetlands. Humans often increase runoff quantities and velocities by paving areas and channelizing stream flow.

Water stress
Main article: water crisis
The concept of water stress is relatively simple: According to the World Business Council for Sustainable Development, it applies to situations where there is not enough water for all uses, whether agricultural, industrial or domestic. Defining thresholds for stress in terms of available water per capita is more complex, however, entailing assumptions about water use and its efficiency. Nevertheless, it has been proposed that when annual per capita renewable freshwater availability is less than 1,700 cubic meters, countries begin to experience periodic or regular water stress. Below 1,000 cubic meters, water scarcity begins to hamper economic development and human health and well-being.


Population growth
In 2000, the world population was 6.2 billion. The UN estimates that by 2050 there will be an additional 3 billion people with most of the growth in developing countries that already suffer water stress.<7> Thus, water demand will increase unless there are corresponding increases in water conservation and recycling of this vital resource.<8>


Increased affluence
The rate of poverty alleviation is increasing especially within the two population giants of China and India. However, increasing affluence inevitably means more water consumption: from needing clean fresh water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and basic sanitation service, to demanding water for gardens and car washing, to wanting jacuzzis or private swimming pools.


Expansion of business activity
Business activity ranging from industrialization to services such as tourism and entertainment continues to expand rapidly. This expansion requires increased water services including both supply and sanitation, which can lead to more pressure on water resources and natural ecosystems.



.........


Examples of man made disasters and loss of fresh water:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea

Aral sea

Abandoned ship near Aral, Kazakhstan

Once the world's fourth-largest inland sea with an area of 68,000 km², the Aral Sea has been steadily shrinking since the 1960s, after the rivers Amu Darya and Syr Darya that fed it were diverted by Soviet Union irrigation projects. By 2004, the sea had shrunk to 25% of its original surface area, and a nearly fivefold increase in salinity had killed most of its natural flora and fauna. By 2007 it had declined further to 10% of its original size, splitting into three separate lakes, two of which are too salty for fish to live in.<1> The once prosperous fishing industry has been virtually destroyed, and former fishing towns and villages along the sea's original shores have become desolate ship graveyards. With this collapse has come unemployment and economic hardship.
...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea
Once part of a vast inland sea which covered a large area of Southern California, the endorheic Salton Sink was the site of a major salt mining operation.

The creation of the Salton Sea of today started in 1905, when heavy rainfall and snowmelt caused the Colorado River to swell and breach an Imperial Valley dike. It took nearly two years to control the Colorado River’s flow into the formerly dry Salton Sink and stop the flooding. As the basin filled, the town of Salton, a Southern Pacific Railroad siding and Torres-Martinez Indian land were submerged. The sudden influx of water and the lack of any drainage from the basin resulted in the formation of the Salton Sea.

The Salton Sea has been termed a "crown jewel of avian biodiversity" (Dr. Milt Friend, Salton Sea Science Office). Over 400 species have been documented at the Salton Sea. The Salton Sea supports 30% of the remaining population of the American White Pelican. <1> The Salton Sea is also a major resting stop on the Pacific Flyway. The sea's rising salinity threatens to eliminate the habitat value for fish-eating birds, such as pelicans. Without restoration actions, the sea will also eventually fail to support the microorganisms necessary to support the many shorebirds that depend on the Salton Sea.


Abandoned, salt encrusted structures on the Salton Sea shore




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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Water crisis to be biggest world risk
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/05/ccwater105.xml

>>Water crisis to be biggest world risk

A catastrophic water shortage could prove an even bigger threat to mankind this century than soaring food prices and the relentless exhaustion of energy reserves, according to a panel of global experts at the Goldman Sachs "Top Five Risks" conference.

Nicholas (Lord) Stern, author of the Government's Stern Review on the economics of climate change, warned that underground aquifers could run dry at the same time as melting glaciers play havoc with fresh supplies of usable water..read more..<

>>The shift to an animal protein diet across Asia has added to the strain. It takes 15 cubic metres of water on average to produce 1kg of beef, compared to six for poultry, and 1.5 for corn...

"There are 800m people in the world who are 'food insecure'. They can't grow enough food, or can't afford to buy it. This is a seismic shift in the global economy."


read more..<



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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. The cold hard truth
The cold hard truth is that water and food shortages will never effect the rich, only the poor. For this reason the mass die off that extreme environmentalists have predicted for decades will never occur. Yes, prices of food and water may increase five or even ten fold, but that matters little to the people in the developed world. Food and water account for such a small percentage of their expenses that that type of increase represents a mere inconvenience, not death. However, for millions, perhaps billions of people in the third world it does mean death. They will die from lack of water and food--just as they have for centuries. Meanwhile, the developed world will continue humming along because they stopped having lots of babies decades ago.

It's sad and horribly unjust, but true.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Nederland - yeah, they are dying now from shortages
which may be part of the cycle of high birth rate?

What about the US and the growth in the SW- like Nevada, where there will not be sufficient water? Or,is that more or less a question of simply relocating people- so it's not a life and death matter, just an inconvenience?

Do you think the water shortage issue --for the first and second world- is over blown, or hyped?
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. There is no water shortage in the first world
The first world can afford to produce all the water it needs using solar powered desalination plants. This is a non-issue.
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