My new neighbor just took out two acres of old growth pine trees

[texastoast]

They were some of the few East Texas Piney Woods old growth trees left in this old subdivision.

I know I shouldn't say it, but I just hate her right now. I'm so mad that I think I'm going to set up a circle in my back yard and start having "my group" come over for ritual so her two little kids can see what a different religion looks like. I'm generally pretty private about these things and respectful of the spiritual leanings of others, but right now, I'm just heartbroken.

[Maat]

1. I'm sorry to hear that, Texastoast.

Healing and comforting energy headed your way.

[liberal N proud]

2. You should see what they have been doing in our area

I lived next to 20 acres of mature Oaks, clear cut for sub-division. Elsewhere in the community, clear cut taking place for sub-divisions and shopping centers.
There was one road that was a beautiful drive of old growth trees over hanging the road. All gone now for a sewer line to nowhere.

I don't know what these people think.

[Quakerfriend]

3. God, that's depressing. I'm so sorry.

:cry:

I know the feeling. I had a next door neighbor who cut down a 325 year old sugar maple with a girth as wide as a truck and enough shade for almost half an acre.

We moved several months after. It really breaks my heart when nature is so disrespected.

[OwnedByFerrets]

4. Just asking.....

is there any way it could have been necessary to pay off a medical bill or something. Sometimes, maybe in this case, one must do things they really dont want to do just to pay bills.
If it was for a non-necessity, then I am right with you and feel your sorrow.

[texastoast]

10. They were paid well for the trees, I'm sure

Some of them were about 3 feet in diameter and filled up several logging trucks. She and her fiance want to build a barn and have horses in the back. Trouble is, their herd can't be bigger than 1 if you practice good horse husbandry. No mention of spending the money for bills.

[Art_from_Ark]

5. Why do people seem so hell-bent on destroying their planet?

I believe that deforestation is a major, though almost completely ignored, cause of global warming. It is happening all over the globe, and the cutting and subsequent burning of trees only adds to the carbon-dioxide build-up in the atmosphere.

[Peanut Butter]

6. Because they are self centered SOBs

In my experience anyhow.
My redneck neighbor did they exact same thing and then left them
to rot on the ground for more than a year.

God I hate people

[hifalutin]

7. The ugliest

sound in the world, a chainsaw.

[texastoast]

11. Don't be hatin'

Well, okay. Do what I've decided to do since I posted this. Hate the stupidity.

[OKIsItJustMe]

8. "... so her two little kids can see what a different religion looks like ..."

You would do this because you "hate her?"

If so, then I think you'll agree that this is a bad idea. (How can practicing your religion, motivated by hate, ever produce good results?)

On the other hand, teaching her children to love nature seems like a good thing. So, when you honestly believe you can act, motivated by your love for nature and your love for your neighbor's children...

[texastoast]

9. Nah, I'm just venting

I won't do it. And I don't hate her. I just hate her stupidity.

[NNadir]

12. I know how you feel. When I was seven, "my" woods and "my" potato fields were

bulldozed to put up more tract housing.

More than 4 decades have passed, and I'm still heartbroken.

Of course, in reality I had nothing to say, since I grew up in a tract house.

[markva]

13. old trees

I'm just curious, but have you ever considered how many old trees were taken out to build your home, your home site, the access roads etc. etc. ?? You could certainly have your home demolished and plant all the trees you wish, that way you can really feel superior to all of us who still believe in property rights. You would also offset the trees your evil neighbor had taken out. I doubt you will do that though. Good luck.

[malakai2]

14. I see "property rights" thrown around a lot every day

Like they are based on an eleventh commandment. They aren't. Legally, there is some handwringing over just what property rights are, but most lawyers and judges avoid deep examination of the concept because it's never really been sorted out, and to do it now would be an enormous undertaking not likely to meet with success.

In this case, the landowner will claim ownership of the trees, because unlike wildlife, vegetation is considered part of the base property. Because the trees are owned, they can be cut and sold. But suppose the landowner has an infestation of a noxious weed. Suppose the state requires landowners to control noxious weeds on their property, at their expense, because according to common law, vegetation is considered part of the base property. The justification for these noxious weed laws is based in defense of nearby landowners' property rights, often to maintain or increase agricultural production values, at the expense of the infested landowners. Should you be on the hook for a noxious weed on your property? What if you bought the place because you liked the groundcover composed of that plant, and it isn't negatively impacting your property? Should the state grant itself authority to dictate to you that you will spend your money to further another specific landowner's income or property values? What if someone else plants a crop that does impact some aspect of your enjoyment of your property, but their land use enjoys legal protection? Property rights is nothing more than a contradictory jumble of social agreements not codified in a stable legal framework.

In the case of the OP, it does suck, and the horse idea will very likely fail, but unless the trees are legally protected by the state or critical habitat for listed species, there is really nothing that could have been done to prevent the cutting. Even with legal protection, public good laws can and do fail court challenges despite sound scientific backing all the time. That's why we have development in floodplains, decreased wetlands protections, and the like. It makes me appreciate landowners like Ted Turner, the ones with some appreciation for landscape-scale ecological preservation and restoration.

[texastoast]

18. Yeah, I should be on the hook

for a noxious weed on my property. And we have our share of noxious weeds here.

You see, human activity is going to get paid for one way or the other. Either I will pay for getting rid of the noxious weed or a couple of generations down the road, those kids will somehow pay. If someone plants a GMO crop and the pollen spreads to my land, the moral thing to do (for me) is to work as hard as I can to get rid of the contamination.

Ted Turner happens to be someone with both the vision and the money it takes to protect the land for the coming generations. I'm just going to do the best I can with my own little plot. And I will continue to work to be one of the most unpopular people in Texas as I speak out against environmental foolishness.

UPDATE: The woman's kids came home after being gone while the trees were taken out. The 4-year-old was screaming at her for doing it, screaming and asking why she killed the trees.

That was just THE best thing for me to hear.

I have hope.

[malakai2]

20. What if the noxious weed is something native?

For example, prairie dogs. If you live in Kansas and you have prairie dogs on your property, the state can force you to poison them out, or if you refuse, the state can enter your property to poison them and then send you the bill. This without proving they are impacting any neighbors-all they need is a complaint that you are harboring prairie dogs.

I was trying to point out that adjoining landowners may affix many different value sets to their property, and sometimes those value sets impinge on one another in a way that can't be clearly answered by some nebulous concept of "property rights."

[texastoast]

16. I have

so I just had one kid. That's the real problem, and I doubt you will agree with the idea of population control since property (rights) are something that is oimportant to you.

Number 2, newbie (and I feel certain you are familiar with that term), I have done nothing but plant trees on my lot since I have moved here. I have grown seedlings to give away to replace those demolished by stupidity of folks who don't get the long term effects of their actions.

Number 3, since all these folks are coming to Texas based on Rick Perry's work to prevent long-term land use plans (among other bases), I would suggest to them that they move to West Texas. There are no trees there (there is even a town named No Trees). And the jobs are good. I wish they would head out there and get their money.

Enjoy your stay.

[markva]

15. trees

All that I am trying to say is that is quite tiresome to hear people who have moved to what once was pristine areas, full of wildlife etc. to suddenly act indignent when one of their neighbors does something (such as removing trees) that they don't approve of. People such as that are the ones who are responsible for "urban sprawl" by their desire to move beyond the city limits, the amount of damage they have caused by all the access roads, sewer plants and so forth and so on completely dwarfs little things such as this man and his 2 acres of clear cutting. The way I look at it is if you demand a say in your neighbors affairs then he deserves an equal say in yours. I doubt that many of us would take to kindly to such anyone interfering in our properties. I'm sure its not that pretty to look at, the clear cut, but we should all realize just how much wildlife and vegetation all our homes have displaced and destroyed.

[texastoast]

17. Tired, are you?

Are you going to keep your energy when you have to explain to your own children why global warming was a "choice" that we all made because our "property rights" and our "convenience" were more important?

I'm old. I'll be dead before it affects me much, though I've been fighting against such utter stupidity all my life.

And, dude (I'm assuming you are a dude because you assumed it was a man who cut down the trees--it wasn't), based on your logic, are you okay with someone who has "property rights" injecting mercury into "his/her" land because it is his/her "right"? Storing chemicals in containers that might leak off to the neighbor's yard? Blocking water flow?

I'll ask you to research the philosphies behind the wisdom of Native Amreicans and how they felt about the generations who came after them.

[markva]

21. trees part 2

I think you are upset because you know how correct I am about all the trees etc. displaced due to your lifestyle. That is moving beyond the city limits, causing urban sprawl. That is a ridiculous argument you are attempting to make when you equate removing trees with dumping mercury or other chemicals into your neighbors yard. Having property rights also means that you will be protected from harmful activities from your neighbors, such as mercury poisoning. If that was on par with removing trees then you and all the residents would be charged with some crime. You just have a very superior attitude, when in fact you and all your neighbors are really the ones who have caused so much environmental damage due to your lifestyles. And, like I said you could always move away and let your yard go to back to its natural state. How far do you commute? How cool do you keep the A/C in those hot TX summers? How far do you travel for vacation? How many square feet is your home? Would you approve of someone taking control of these things as you seem to wish to take control of your neighbors?? If you are REALLY serious about having an environmentally sound life you should. I seriously doubt you will though. Am I right??

[tankbob]

24. Global Warming Choice

"global warming was a "choice" "

I am not sure how. Please explain how we are choosing to melt Martian ice caps while the Antarctic ice shelf (on the Western side) is growing. We have no choice in the sun spot cylce, etc. I want clean air, grew up in East Texas and am going back ASAP, have been heartbroken at some of "my" woods being cut down. At the end of the day, if I wanted the trees to stand until they rotted, I should have figured out how to buy the land.

[Dead_Parrot]

19. Are they planning on replanting any?

Just playing devil's advocate, but turning trees into furniture/construction wood and replanting the ground with new trees is practically the only carbon sequestration we do.

OK, it sounds like they're not, but it's worth the the question.

(Hell, if they are, invite them over for a drum or two. :) BB)

[kristopher]

22. I'm not sure what you are objecting to?

It sounds like you have two basic complaints:

1) Your little piece of the world was negatively impacted because you personally liked that 2 acre parcel of trees when you saw, heard or smelled them each day.

2) You disapprove, in general, of cutting down trees.

Is that correct?

What rules do you think should control when trees are or are not taken?

[Zachstar]

23. I used to live in East Texas..

And I never want to go back. In Hemphill the construction went on well into the night.. etc...

Since I came to Shreveport things have been MUCH MUCH quieter. And the trees here look great!

However, Posting about it on a forum will do little good. In my view, You need to check the lawbooks to see if any laws were broken and report to the local authorities if so. It sounds like others were mad about this as well.

We lost several old pines to local wildlife eating into them for some reason. We were heartbroken to see them go. So to see two acres go must have been sad beyond belief.

In my view nothing is more tempting fate than to cut down super large trees. The resulting mess has after effects that continue to aid in global climate change for years. Trees can take upwards of decades to get to a level where they can seriously replace a tree cut down elseware.

Now we must think of the world the kids will grow up in. When they get out on their own a large amount of trees will be gone and population will have grown to high levels. So if it is at all possible PLEASE plant some trees and work with local groups repopulating areas. If not for taking a stand against climate chance than so that the children can continue to enjoy them just like we did as children.

Thankfully technology is quickly replacing the need for paper. Spurred on by the insane printing industry where printing a book worth of pages can make you go broke from having to by more ink. The Amazon Kinde is just the start of a revolution in on demand info in my view.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper