Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Oil price question....

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:08 PM
Original message
Oil price question....
Posted this on GD and got only two responses before it went south. Should have posted here in the first place...
- - - - - -
Oil was around 25 bucks a barrel when Dumbya took over, and gas sold for about $1.70 a gallon.

If oil is now 100 bucks a barrel - 4 times what it was in 2001 - how come gas is not 4 times the 2000 price, or $6.80 a gallon?

And.... while I'm asking dumb questions... how can this happen while the oil companies are showing record profits?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because (like any product) there's more to the price than the price of raw materials
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't know either, but
......I'd like the three bucks a pop over the $6.80. If gas gets that high, I may have to dust off the pogo stick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. did you say record profits ?
It does take 3-4 months for a Mid east tanker to get to the US, then the crude spends time in tanks before it makes its way thru a refinery. So wait a bit, gas will be higher enuf very soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think your numbers might be a little off.
Oil was around $30 dollars a barrel and regular gas here in Florida was around $1.25 a gallon back in 1999 if memory serves me. But I was pondering the same question the other day myself. It does seem the price for a gallon of gas is a little low in relation to the price of a barrel of oil when compared to the 1999 prices. It makes me wonder if the oil companies aren't holding back and are planning to raise prices up big time after the 2008 elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Check out the primer I posted a link to (above)
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 12:32 PM by OKIsItJustMe
http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/gasolinepricesprimer/eia1_2005primerM.html


...

In 2005 the price of crude oil averaged $50.23 per barrel, and crude oil accounted for about 53 percent of the cost of a gallon of regular grade gasoline (Figure 1). In comparison, the average price for crude oil in 2004 was $36.98 per barrel, and it composed 47 percent of the cost of a gallon of regular gasoline. The share of the retail price of regular grade gasoline that crude oil costs represent varies somewhat over time and among regions.

...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patch1234 Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. pump price, not a percentage of crude
pump price is partly a percentage of crude.


......................
here s the formula I use.

add $5 to the barrel price
divide by 42
add 38 cents excise tax, per gallon
add 10 more cents for local markup.
.......................
note that gas would not be free, if crude was zero.

formula does not work when
there are fake refinery outages
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. Taxes, refining and distributing costs have NOT gone up as much as Crude oil.
Edited on Sat Jan-05-08 03:41 AM by happyslug
Gasoline taxes by state:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gas_taxes_by_state_2002.html

Cost of Gasoline since 1997 when it averaged $1.27 per gallon:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html

Crude Oil prices since 2004:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/oil/statistics/ans_crude_prices.html

Domestic Crude oil prices since 1994:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/oil/statistics/crude_prices_1st_purchase.html

Most states gasoline tax is about 50 cents per gallon or less, thus in 1997 gasoline BEFORE TAXES was less than 75 cents a gallon. In 1997 Crude oil prices for oil produced in California was $15.02 per barrel. There are 42 US gallons to a Barrel of oil, but after refining you get 44 gallons of product. The "extra" two gallons is created as you convert heavier crude oil to lighter Gasoline, Diesel/Jet/Kerosenes and other oil products. We can divide the price per gallon by 44, but to be conservative I will use the 42 gallons per barrel of oil.

$15.02 divided by 42 Equal just under 36 cents a Gallon. You than take the before tax price of Gasoline for 1997 (75 cents per gallon) and subtract 42 cents from it you get 33 cents per gallon to cover the cost of refining and distributing Gasoline. The price of 33 cents for the cost of refining and distributing has gone up since 1997, but 33 cents is a rough guide to what those costs are today, given that 1997 was in the middle of the last Oil Glut we had.

Thus out of ANY Gallon of Gasoline you have 50.5 Cents per gallon and 33 cents in distribution costs. Now Distribution costs goes up the more inland you are. I live in Johnstown Pa. Out Gasoline comes from New Orleans by barge up the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. As you move from New Orleans to Pittsburgh you see the price goes up, do to this additional costs (In addition to higher taxes as you move from the South to the North and then East).

Now in my home town of Johnstown Gasoline is now $3.19 per gallon (it takes about four weeks for well head prices increase to hit your local gas station, eight weeks for price DECREASES, this is the economic concept of "Price Stickiness"). $100/42= $2.38 add 45.1 Cents do to Pennsylvania taxes and 33 cents for distribution costs that adds up to $3.16. Given I am using old data (Distribution cost should have gone up at least 3 cents per gallon since 1997) I am right on the money.

My point is you MUST consider gasoline taxes and the cost of distributing the oil independent of the Crude oil Price. Now I pointed out distribution costs should have gone up since 1997, in the late 1970s when people use of gasoline DROPPED, the states INCREASED gasoline taxes to over come the shortfall do to people using less Gasoline. This will happen again, I fully expect the states in increase Gasoline Taxes. Right now the states have NOT, but it another factor to consider when reviewing Gasoline prices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Diesel
Could someone tell me why diesel is higher than gasoline when it takes less to refine it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Home heating fuel is in great demand, but higher taxes is the biggest factor.
Edited on Sat Jan-05-08 10:45 AM by happyslug
Jet Fuel, Diesel and Home heating oil is all the same fuel (Some slight differences but all within each fuels "error rate") and all THREE are in great demand (Especially by the Military).

But the big cause is Taxes. Taxes are generally HIGHER or equal to gasoline:

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html

http://www.factsonfuel.org/diesel/

My home state (Pennsylvania) tax on Gasoline is 50.7 cents, but Diesel is 63.7 cents:
http://www.api.org/aboutoilgas/gasoline/upload/State-Motor-Fuel-Tax-Rates.pdf

This happens in many states, while same states tax rate is the same on both:
Average Gasoline Tax in the US is: 46.9 cents
Average Diesel Tax in the US is: 52.9 cents
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Industrial fuel. Price elasticity of demand lower than UNL
Industrial consumers simply pass along the costs over the short term. Since UNL is directly purchased by the consumer, response to increased price is more immediate.


In other words, because they can.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Diesel Refining has been uh... "refined."
No doubt you've heard of "Ultra-low-sulfur diesel."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel

Taking the sulfur out is a good thing, but makes the fuel more expensive to produce.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patch1234 Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. diesel contains more energy per gallon ...
than gasoline.

a turbine can burn anything,
so prices tend to equalize.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-05-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Plus we've been paying about the same as now when crude was a lot cheaper
something is not right here. But then again this is bushworld we live in now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. There are 42 gallons in a barrel of oil. Therefore oil is $2.38 a gallon.
When oil was $25 a gallon, then a gallon would have cost about 60 cents. Gas costs about $1.78 more as a result of 100 dollar oil compared to 25 dollar oil.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC